Lets Talk about Vettel.

[AMSKRR 3]

I guarantee you if Hamilton had done Multi-21 it'd be "Justice" and his fans would say that team orders were wrong. People just love to hate, even if it makes them a hypocrite. People don't agree with team orders and hate Ferrari for it yet when someone they don't like ignores them and beats someone that is popular, they are suddenly justified and should be obeyed and the guy that ignored them is "evil" and all that is wrong in the world. I've always said, they are fine if it is for the title at the last 3 races, nothing else. 2 races in is not the time. 

(Cue 6 dislikes)

[EdMa 0]

Although I didn't like what Vettel did, I did admire his ruthlesness, even though I did beneath my breath. What p***** me off me more was his two faced attitude apologising at the time with BS excuses, which I never bought, then saying the complete opposite two weeks later. 

[buttonfan 5]

AMS97KRR said:

I guarantee you if Hamilton had done Multi-21 it'd be "Justice" and his fans would say that team orders were wrong. People just love to hate, even if it makes them a hypocrite. People don't agree with team orders and hate Ferrari for it yet when someone they don't like ignores them and beats someone that is popular, they are suddenly justified and should be obeyed and the guy that ignored them is "evil" and all that is wrong in the world. I've always said, they are fine if it is for the title at the last 3 races, nothing else. 2 races in is not the time. 

(Cue 6 dislikes)

You're half-way there... living on a prayer :P

[GoldenColt 1]

2/3 now. :P

[RevolvingPrawn 1]

VetteIfan said:

I guess I'm a part of the racist group too :ar!

To quote Ali G...

[Lukedfrt 91]

Made it 6  :x

[buttonfan 5]

Lukedfrt said:

Made it 6  :x

Υeah but there are two agrees, so we need another 2. :P

[ImRiteUrRong74 0]

*3 agrees

[JensonBottom 1]

7 disagrees. :P

[andmcq 79]

Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 

[alonsofan46 0]

andmcq said:

Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 

So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)

[Jiggy 5]

I have no idea why Vettel isn't beating Ricciardo. I expect Vettel typically having a strong second half of the season to rectify it, but I wasn't expecting this at all. Different perspectives might also be a factor, Ricci will be a lot more happier with a relative slow Red Bull than Vettel ever would, looking at where they came from. But yeah.

[Lukedfrt 91]

I can't believe the Qualifying record, Vettel was supposed to be the 1 lap master.

[GoldenColt 1]

Deep inside all of us knew that one day the day would come when Vettel is going through a difficult phase car-wise.

Have to say, I expected more of him. Not necessarily pace-wise, but in terms of his approach to these difficulties. All he does is moan about Renault or F1 in general. Is it that all these years with all the success coming in so easy - sometimes it looked as if it was effortless - have spoiled his character?

People called him the new Schumacher because of his record-breaking success, but to me, this year so far has proved that he's far away from Schumi. Michael's approach to difficult times was so much more different, love him or hate him but he was a motivator to his crew. Vettel doesn't even come close to that atm, it seems like he has no fighting spirit left once he's not in a car to win the championship with after all these years at the top.

What goes around comes around. The premature and massive records and stats might haunt him now. I remember Alonso saying last year that once Seb doesn't have the best car on the grid and ends up finishing 4th, 5th or 7th, these 4 titels will be bad news for him. People will value them even less than they did during his era.

Character building times for Seb. About effing time.

[andmcq 79]

alonsofan46 said:

andmcq said:

Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 

So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)

No, Vettel is just a better driver. 

[couger1981 89]

andmcq said:

alonsofan46 said:

andmcq said:

Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 

So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)

No, Vettel is just a better driver. 

Only in a car that was using the diffuser.

[andmcq 79]

Vettels also got age and weight advantage on Webber though.

[RevolvingPrawn 1]

Webber has the most important advantage over Vettel though, he's not an arrogant, whiny, crybaby when things don't go his way.

[buttonfan 5]

RevolvingPrawn said:

Webber has the most important advantage over Vettel though, he's not an arrogant, whiny, crybaby when things don't go his way.

Too bad this advantage doesn't win you a championship, actually it does the opposite..

[couger1981 89]

andmcq said:

Vettels also got age and weight advantage on Webber though.

Webber was in the sport far longer than Vettel.

[onetwothree 0]

I'm quite curious to see how Vettel would've reacted had he been in Alonso and Webber's positions at Abu Dhabi in 2010.

[VetteIfan 0]

Lukedfrt said:

I can't believe the Qualifying record, Vettel was supposed to be the 1 lap master.

Not too difficult a job to be 6-2 up when Vettel has had 4 mechanical issues in qualifying. Of course though, that score is been milked by every TV station and news report around.

It seems I'm seeing a different position on the whole deal at Red Bull this season to everyone else, which is not really too surprising. Even with Dan driving for him what is the best car he's ever driven in the best form of his career in many people's eyes, he's still only 23 points ahead of a guy who's in his worst form in years, driving what is his worst car in years and suffering the mass of the reliability problems. I'm only hoping the luck will even itself out as the season continues, and with Seb's strongest circuits still to come, I'm still confident he'll come out his "miserable season" as the team winner. Dan, to reiterate as I've said before is doing a great job at the moment but surely he'll start taking the brunt of some of the luck sooner or later.

As for his supposed moaning, he's been moaning about the new engines and the way F1 has been heading since pre-season day 1, where no-one knew where anyone stood. As far as actual teamwork and effort goes, all I hear coming out of actual sources in the team is he isn't giving up and is working harder than ever to be able to find his sweet spot in these new regulations. As a fan, I can't ask for more than that.

[GoldenColt 1]

Seb, you do realize Dan has lost 18 points in Australia and at least 12 points in Malaysia with no fault of his own, right?

Besides, I don't take this whole "Dan's driving the best car of his career so far"-crap seriously either. That's Helmut Marko pet-talk to defend Seb. If anything, Daniel's Toro Rosso from last year is a faster car than his current RB. Nearly all of last years cars were faster than the fastest cars from 2014.

[Tommig1995 0]

VetteIfan said:

 Even with Dan driving for him what is the best car he's ever driven 

[Vettel] driving what is his worst car in years 

Why should that matter? It's the same car, built to the same spec, same for both drivers. And if Vettel is still adapting to the new cars, it's taking him far too long.

[KRTheIceman 0]

Vettel himself stated that it was his own driving style that was hurting him. He used to be able to use the blown diffuser really well. He could create oversteer into the corners, use the diffuser to power out of the corners. They tried to replicated it this year but they couldn't so he has to change his style.