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Lets Talk about Vettel.


DiRTKiNG808
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

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You don't? Bit of a 180 from how you clearly revelled in Hamilton's silly mistake in your last post.

Worse? That is a joke right? I don't remember Fernando ever saying one of his teammates didn't deserve to win, and I don't remember him ever calling a backmarker a cucumber. Sure, on some things they are similar, but Vettel is and always will be a two-faced a-hole.

Anyhow, I feel replying to your posts is a waste of time, people like you will never shut up until you feel like your 'opinion' has been recognised as correct and right. I have the pleasure of telling you that 90% of members here will disagree with you, so good luck.
by the way, vettel never said webber didn't deserve the win, he said he didn't deserve to use the multi map 2-1 team orders which is slightly different, which I agree with as it was only the 2nd or 3rd gp of the season. different if it was the last 3
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.

dude you came in shouting I was a jackass and a troll what do expect?? have you noticed I've mentioned both Alonso and Hamilton in all the posts, yes I know you got alonsos helmet as an avatar.


you should maybe read things a bit clearer, as I did not insinuate your a Hamilton fanboy just said you're a fan as you're spending a lot of time defending him over others. I on the other hand don't support any of the drivers involved so go figure who's got a better perspective

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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
ok so if I honestly think Hamilton is overrated and vettel underrated im not allowed to say for fear of hurting someones emotions on a forum, get a grip man
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you should maybe read things a bit clearer, as I did not insinuate your a Hamilton fanboy just said you're a fan as you're spending a lot of time defending him over others. I on the other hand don't support any of the drivers involved so go figure who's got a better perspective

Regardless of who is supporting which driver, you've got the worse perspective.
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
ok so if I honestly think Hamilton is overrated and vettel underrated im not allowed to say for fear of hurting someones emotions on a forum, get a grip man
Sorry, wasn't it you who said something like 'I hope Hamilton crashes and burns in a fire'? Of course you can say you think Hamilton is overrated, but what kind reaction do you expect when you say something like that?
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.

dude you came in shouting I was a jackass and a troll what do expect?? have you noticed I've mentioned both Alonso and Hamilton in all the posts, yes I know you got alonsos helmet as an avatar.


you should maybe read things a bit clearer, as I did not insinuate your a Hamilton fanboy just said you're a fan as you're spending a lot of time defending him over others. I on the other hand don't support any of the drivers involved so go figure who's got a better perspective

Maybe if you hadn't trolled I wouldn't have called you that or jackass??? Think about how other people may react before you post. 

"You're a fan, I get it" comes across as a sly way of calling someone a fanboy, but nevermind, I'll take your word that it wasn't implied. And I'd defend any driver I thought deserved it (unless that driver was Maldonado;)), not just Hamilton.
Carry on thinking your perspective is better, I just don't care now. Seems to me though that your perspective is lacking a view on how your comments might generate a reaction.
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its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
ok so if I honestly think Hamilton is overrated and vettel underrated im not allowed to say for fear of hurting someones emotions on a forum, get a grip man
Sorry, wasn't it you who said something like 'I hope Hamilton crashes and burns in a fire'? Of course you can say you think Hamilton is overrated, but what kind reaction do you expect when you say something like that?
when did I say that, you making stuff up now lad
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typical, putting words in my mouth without knowing the facts, a common theme on here

its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
ok so if I honestly think Hamilton is overrated and vettel underrated im not allowed to say for fear of hurting someones emotions on a forum, get a grip man
Sorry, wasn't it you who said something like 'I hope Hamilton crashes and burns in a fire'? Of course you can say you think Hamilton is overrated, but what kind reaction do you expect when you say something like that?
what did I say that was soo bad? if people cant handle that then its not my fault is it. tbh I don't even think what I said was worthy of this whole argument, prawn got on 1 and decided to take things a bit too far
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typical, putting words in my mouth without knowing the facts, a common theme on here

its well known after the qualifying for the Hungarian grand prix that Fernando called lewis various obscenities not fitting to put here. as did Hamilton towards Alonso. I said massa and Hamilton not Alonso and massa. slow down and read what your replying too.  Hamilton swears on the radio all the time, it never gets broadcasted. as a lot of drivers do. not just him, see im defending him I don't hate him. the end to your post just confirms its like talking to a child, most teenagers have that same know it all attitude, my way or the highway. which is fine just don't jump down my throat when I disagree with you. don't call me a troll when I have a different point of view. the reason you got a reply like that is simply cos of what you said to me already, judging me without even knowing if I like or dislike Hamilton. you're a fan, I get it

Really? I remember Alonso saying Hamilton had disobeyed the team and nothing more. 

As for Monaco, I don't remember Hamilton actually taking Massa off and swearing, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, show me the evidence of it and I'll happily accept that you are right about that. And please, if you want me to understand, can you separate your post up  bit and not just post one big paragraph?

And hey, I was just replying in a way I saw fit to you calling me a child. Don't sling insults if you can't take a few back ;)

I called you a troll because your comments about Hamilton in the Underrated/Overrated thread were clearly designed to stir up arguments from Hamilton fans. That, to me, is trolling. Why would you even say such things if you were impartial? And why would you say them, knowing that fans of Hamilton wouldn't be happy about them?

As for your lightly veiled ending comment implying that I'm a Hamilton fanboy, I happen to be an Alonso fanboy and I'm proud to call myself such. Maybe my avatar picture should have given you a hint? And yes I judged you as a Hamilton hater, but to be fair your comments about him in 2 different threads seemed to be detrimental of him. And yes, I do like Hamilton, I like him being out front instead of Vettel. But I am first and foremost an Alonso fan.
ok so if I honestly think Hamilton is overrated and vettel underrated im not allowed to say for fear of hurting someones emotions on a forum, get a grip man
Sorry, wasn't it you who said something like 'I hope Hamilton crashes and burns in a fire'? Of course you can say you think Hamilton is overrated, but what kind reaction do you expect when you say something like that?
what did I say that was soo bad? if people cant handle that then its not my fault is it. tbh I don't even think what I said was worthy of this whole argument, prawn got on 1 and decided to take things a bit too far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2QKnbsutBw&feature=youtu.be
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Guys we had this on the last forum and I knew it would happen again. 

Get it back on track please and quit the bickering or you'll lose the thread.

Just to refresh you this is what this thread is about, please don't go on the attack against other members for having opinions different from yours.

DiRTKiNG808 said:
So in my Who do you think will become the 2014 Formula 1 world champion? thread there was a big discussion about Vettel. People were talking about how good he is or how he had the best car for four years or how he has a bad car now or how he would face up to Hamilton. I would like to here what others have to say about him but please let it be nice even if you disagree with me or the other fans. View this as a fan page. If you are fan I want to here what you have to say. I think it would be cool if every F1 driver had a Mercedes car. Then we could see who really is the fastest. Would be Vettel, Hamilton or even Ricciardo? Who knows? If you are a fan of any other F1 driver leave it in the comments and tell us why.

I am a fan of Vettel because I like his driving style. He is only 26 and he has a total of 1,482 points, 39 wins and 63 podiums. He was the first to win for Red Bull as well. He has acomplished a lot over the past few years and that is why I am a fan.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I know it is just a joke, but making something like that is not fair. Plagued by reliability issues and the fastest car is way to fast to catch. Still, let the people have their fun until he wins a 5th title next year ;) 
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AMS97KRR said:
I know it is just a joke, but making something like that is not fair. Plagued by reliability issues and the fastest car is way to fast to catch. Still, let the people have their fun until he wins a 5th title next year ;) 
You mean Daniel Ricciardo's first title? ;) :p
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AMS97KRR said:
I know it is just a joke, but making something like that is not fair. Plagued by reliability issues and the fastest car is way to fast to catch. Still, let the people have their fun until he wins a 5th title next year ;) 
I don't know if it escaped your attention, but that picture was actually made by a Vettel fan account "FansOfSebVettel". So, y'know, liven up a bit. 
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VetteIfan said:
AMS97KRR said:
I know it is just a joke, but making something like that is not fair. Plagued by reliability issues and the fastest car is way to fast to catch. Still, let the people have their fun until he wins a 5th title next year ;) 
I don't know if it escaped your attention, but that picture was actually made by a Vettel fan account "FansOfSebVettel". So, y'know, liven up a bit. 
I wasn't complaining at all, those memes are pretty funny sometimes, this one was ok too. I didn't see that, but still, my point is still relevant. 
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AMS97KRR said:
I know it is just a joke, but making something like that is not fair. Plagued by reliability issues and the fastest car is way to fast to catch. Still, let the people have their fun until he wins a 5th title next year ;) 
You mean Daniel Ricciardo's first title? ;) :p
Lol. If Ricciardo beats Vettel over then next 3/4 seasons , I'll admit he is better ;) 

We've seen in many sports in the past that form is temporary and that class is permanent. Vettel has had good seasons from 2008-2013 I would argue, so we'll see :)
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So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4. If Ricciardo has a good year or two fair enough, but what if he then drops off? You don't lose/gain a status overnight. Look at Man United at the moment, how many years would it take out of the UCL to no longer call them a big team? Same with any team. 

You don't win 4 championships, lose out a couple of times and then suddenly become 2nd driver, sorry it doesn't work like that. I know Alonso has beaten his team mates mostly since 2006 (Except 2007) but it will be at the end of 2014, 8 years since Alonso won the title, does that suddenly make him a second rate driver? In those 8 years he has "only" challenged 3 times (2007, 2010, 2012). Alonso is still the best driver, despite losing out to a rookie in 2007 and no title since 2006. 

To be honest, it is not even about just the length of time, but by how much. If he beats Vettel by 75 points 2 years in a row with the same amount of DNF's etc. then fine, he is better (Not including this year so far). If he is just slower, then whatever, but F1 has so many variables.

In 2011 did you think to yourself "Oh Button beat Lewis by 43 points, he must be better!"..? I doubt it, Hamilton only had one more DNF that season as well. But we all know Hamilton is better in reality. Hmailton had 3 more DNF's than Button in 2012, I though 1 or 2 were from the lead as well so yeah.

Point being, you don't lose your status after 1/2 bad seasons/years.
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vettels great I like him a lot, I have had the pleasure to meet him and what a nice genuine guy he is, im not just saying that as a fan but honestly away from the circuit he is simply a very genuine, courteous and intelligent young man.
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AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4
Eh?

You can't directly comapre the Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Button situations. In 2011 Hamilton had won one title; Vettel's now won the last four. If you were to credit each driver according to their statistical achievements then you'll also have to hold Vettel to a higher standard than Hamilton- unless you're admitting that Vettel is no better than Hamilton, then fair enough, losing to Ricciardo for two of three seasons doesn't change that.

Another point to bring up is that we all know Lewis was a mental wreck in 2011. As a racing driver he didn't lose any of his skill, he just wasn't in the right frame of mind. That's no excuse for his poor performances, granted, but equally it's no reason to say that he's any lesser a racing driver. On the other hand, Vettel's not doing so well as of late. When was the last time that happened? Beginning of 2012 when he was being matched by Webber. Both times the cars haven't had EBDs on them, so I think it's fair to say that his lack of dominant form is down to that. And that is a weakness in his profile as a racing driver- an inability to adapt to different cars. Ergo, being beaten by his teammate does indeed show that he's not that good a driver.
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yugin96 said:
AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4
Eh?

You can't directly comapre the Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Button situations. In 2011 Hamilton had won one title; Vettel's now won the last four. If you were to credit each driver according to their statistical achievements then you'll also have to hold Vettel to a higher standard than Hamilton- unless you're admitting that Vettel is no better than Hamilton, then fair enough, losing to Ricciardo for two of three seasons doesn't change that.

Another point to bring up is that we all know Lewis was a mental wreck in 2011. As a racing driver he didn't lose any of his skill, he just wasn't in the right frame of mind. That's no excuse for his poor performances, granted, but equally it's no reason to say that he's any lesser a racing driver. On the other hand, Vettel's not doing so well as of late. When was the last time that happened? Beginning of 2012 when he was being matched by Webber. Both times the cars haven't had EBDs on them, so I think it's fair to say that his lack of dominant form is down to that. And that is a weakness in his profile as a racing driver- an inability to adapt to different cars. Ergo, being beaten by his teammate does indeed show that he's not that good a driver.
Some people take longer to adapt than others, which is human nature, it doesn't mean you are bad at something, but it takes a little longer to be better at something. To be perfectly honest, Vettel has not done terribly this season, he has finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th and that 4th place was coming through the pack. Vettel got the fastest lap that day too and was driver of the day. Malaysia, he was ahead of Ricciardo doing just fine. 5th and 6th, well he just lost out, no excuses really. And then he retired from 3rd in Monaco. Anything can happen at Monaco, but more than likely he would have finished 3rd because overtaking is tricky and the pit stops were during the SC, meaning no lost ground atleast on Ricciardo.

And like I've said in the past, statistics are not everything up to a point. Is Vettel 4x better than Hamilton? No, of course not. But you cannot say he does not deserve the titles, because he got the most points. Hamilton has been unlucky and also robbed himself of chances, just look at 2010 for that. Crashed in Monza and Singapore.

And anyway, F1 is about making the best of the opportunities that arise. Vettel won in a Toro Rosso in 2008. Whatever your opinion of that is, he took his chance and won a race in a car that wouldn't normally win. That shows he has quality, and people who are considered experts rate Vettel highly. Ricciardo didn't, and he competed in wet races (Car is not as good I know, but he didn't get a top 5 I don't think). Hulkenberg got into good positions in the wet at Brazil, pole in 2010 and running well in 2012.
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I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this supposed domination of Vettel from Ricciardo is all a bit overhyped. I'm not going to go in to details, and will also say Dan is doing a great job thus far, but we'll see where they are by the end of the season when hopefully the luck levels out. 

To make this statement a little more interesting, I'm gonna go on record and say if Ricciardo does beat Vettel this season I'll upload my profile picture as Lewis Hamilton celebrating a win or summat, for the whole of next season. 
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what would it take for the doubters to accept that Vettel is a true deserving champion? he won a title in a year when 7 drivers won the first 7 races how competitive does it have to get until people accept he deserved every championship he has won. tbh i think Mercedes have a much bigger advantage this year than red bull have ever had over the whole grid yet no one is complaining that Hamilton or Rosberg will win the championship in what clearly is the best car, funnily enough i cant remember the last time the fastest car never won the championship, 2005 maybe? the Renault was a bit slower than the McLaren but more reliable, both have an equal outcome on the championship. so that would mean Alonso is probably the best out there just now he is the only driver out there who has won a championship in what clearly was the 2nd fastest car. so was it Alonso's ability or Renaults reliability that won the title? so many contributing factors come into account when going for a championship but 1 remains the same, first to the flag wins its that simple.  Ok so Vettel was lucky in a way to land in red bull when they were about to ride the crest of an almighty wave and he has grabbed that opportunity with both hands and more importantly delivered 4 championships in a row to the team who chose him. whilst watching a race online earlier in the year a tweet was received by the commentator which asked if Hamilton won this years title with such a dominant car will the fans view his achievement with such distain that they view Vettels acheivements?
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AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4. If Ricciardo has a good year or two fair enough, but what if he then drops off? You don't lose/gain a status overnight. Look at Man United at the moment, how many years would it take out of the UCL to no longer call them a big team? Same with any team. 

You don't win 4 championships, lose out a couple of times and then suddenly become 2nd driver, sorry it doesn't work like that. I know Alonso has beaten his team mates mostly since 2006 (Except 2007) but it will be at the end of 2014, 8 years since Alonso won the title, does that suddenly make him a second rate driver? In those 8 years he has "only" challenged 3 times (2007, 2010, 2012). Alonso is still the best driver, despite losing out to a rookie in 2007 and no title since 2006. 

To be honest, it is not even about just the length of time, but by how much. If he beats Vettel by 75 points 2 years in a row with the same amount of DNF's etc. then fine, he is better (Not including this year so far). If he is just slower, then whatever, but F1 has so many variables.

In 2011 did you think to yourself "Oh Button beat Lewis by 43 points, he must be better!"..? I doubt it, Hamilton only had one more DNF that season as well. But we all know Hamilton is better in reality. Hmailton had 3 more DNF's than Button in 2012, I though 1 or 2 were from the lead as well so yeah.

Point being, you don't lose your status after 1/2 bad seasons/years.
Well, Hamilton was (and still is) only a 1x WDC. Hell, even Hill managed to win one WDC. Even Keke Rosberg.

Vettel on the other hand, is a 4xWDC and was compared to the likes of Schumacher by many in and outside this forum.

Schumacher never looked as bad as Vettel does so far against any of his teammates during his first career in F1. Especially not during his prime.

What I'm trying to say is: Given the enormous amount of success, the altitude of Vettel's fall so far this season is quite impressive. Fly high, fall hard.

I knew that one day this sort of success would bite him.
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VetteIfan said:
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this supposed domination of Vettel from Ricciardo is all a bit overhyped. I'm not going to go in to details, and will also say Dan is doing a great job thus far, but we'll see where they are by the end of the season when hopefully the luck levels out. 

To make this statement a little more interesting, I'm gonna go on record and say if Ricciardo does beat Vettel this season I'll upload my profile picture as Lewis Hamilton celebrating a win or summat, for the whole of next season. 
*Click*


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AMS97KRR said:

yugin96 said:
AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4
Eh?

You can't directly comapre the Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Button situations. In 2011 Hamilton had won one title; Vettel's now won the last four. If you were to credit each driver according to their statistical achievements then you'll also have to hold Vettel to a higher standard than Hamilton- unless you're admitting that Vettel is no better than Hamilton, then fair enough, losing to Ricciardo for two of three seasons doesn't change that.

Another point to bring up is that we all know Lewis was a mental wreck in 2011. As a racing driver he didn't lose any of his skill, he just wasn't in the right frame of mind. That's no excuse for his poor performances, granted, but equally it's no reason to say that he's any lesser a racing driver. On the other hand, Vettel's not doing so well as of late. When was the last time that happened? Beginning of 2012 when he was being matched by Webber. Both times the cars haven't had EBDs on them, so I think it's fair to say that his lack of dominant form is down to that. And that is a weakness in his profile as a racing driver- an inability to adapt to different cars. Ergo, being beaten by his teammate does indeed show that he's not that good a driver.
Some people take longer to adapt than others, which is human nature, it doesn't mean you are bad at something, but it takes a little longer to be better at something. To be perfectly honest, Vettel has not done terribly this season, he has finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th and that 4th place was coming through the pack. Vettel got the fastest lap that day too and was driver of the day. Malaysia, he was ahead of Ricciardo doing just fine. 5th and 6th, well he just lost out, no excuses really. And then he retired from 3rd in Monaco. Anything can happen at Monaco, but more than likely he would have finished 3rd because overtaking is tricky and the pit stops were during the SC, meaning no lost ground atleast on Ricciardo.

And like I've said in the past, statistics are not everything up to a point. Is Vettel 4x better than Hamilton? No, of course not. But you cannot say he does not deserve the titles, because he got the most points. Hamilton has been unlucky and also robbed himself of chances, just look at 2010 for that. Crashed in Monza and Singapore.

And anyway, F1 is about making the best of the opportunities that arise. Vettel won in a Toro Rosso in 2008. Whatever your opinion of that is, he took his chance and won a race in a car that wouldn't normally win. That shows he has quality, and people who are considered experts rate Vettel highly. Ricciardo didn't, and he competed in wet races (Car is not as good I know, but he didn't get a top 5 I don't think). Hulkenberg got into good positions in the wet at Brazil, pole in 2010 and running well in 2012.
Pastor Maldonado won a race in a Williams...
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fIsince08 said:
AMS97KRR said:

yugin96 said:
AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4
Eh?

You can't directly comapre the Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Button situations. In 2011 Hamilton had won one title; Vettel's now won the last four. If you were to credit each driver according to their statistical achievements then you'll also have to hold Vettel to a higher standard than Hamilton- unless you're admitting that Vettel is no better than Hamilton, then fair enough, losing to Ricciardo for two of three seasons doesn't change that.

Another point to bring up is that we all know Lewis was a mental wreck in 2011. As a racing driver he didn't lose any of his skill, he just wasn't in the right frame of mind. That's no excuse for his poor performances, granted, but equally it's no reason to say that he's any lesser a racing driver. On the other hand, Vettel's not doing so well as of late. When was the last time that happened? Beginning of 2012 when he was being matched by Webber. Both times the cars haven't had EBDs on them, so I think it's fair to say that his lack of dominant form is down to that. And that is a weakness in his profile as a racing driver- an inability to adapt to different cars. Ergo, being beaten by his teammate does indeed show that he's not that good a driver.
Some people take longer to adapt than others, which is human nature, it doesn't mean you are bad at something, but it takes a little longer to be better at something. To be perfectly honest, Vettel has not done terribly this season, he has finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th and that 4th place was coming through the pack. Vettel got the fastest lap that day too and was driver of the day. Malaysia, he was ahead of Ricciardo doing just fine. 5th and 6th, well he just lost out, no excuses really. And then he retired from 3rd in Monaco. Anything can happen at Monaco, but more than likely he would have finished 3rd because overtaking is tricky and the pit stops were during the SC, meaning no lost ground atleast on Ricciardo.

And like I've said in the past, statistics are not everything up to a point. Is Vettel 4x better than Hamilton? No, of course not. But you cannot say he does not deserve the titles, because he got the most points. Hamilton has been unlucky and also robbed himself of chances, just look at 2010 for that. Crashed in Monza and Singapore.

And anyway, F1 is about making the best of the opportunities that arise. Vettel won in a Toro Rosso in 2008. Whatever your opinion of that is, he took his chance and won a race in a car that wouldn't normally win. That shows he has quality, and people who are considered experts rate Vettel highly. Ricciardo didn't, and he competed in wet races (Car is not as good I know, but he didn't get a top 5 I don't think). Hulkenberg got into good positions in the wet at Brazil, pole in 2010 and running well in 2012.
Pastor Maldonado won a race in a Williams...
Maldonado has shown flashes of pace, but he is reckless. Vettel is not reckless but he is very quick. And also, Vettel built upon his success with other strong finishes and then in 2009 won RBR's first ever race, in the rain during Brawns most dominant period.
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AMS97KRR said:
So for a driver to be the best he has to beat Vettel four years in a row? lol
No, I said 3-4. If Ricciardo has a good year or two fair enough, but what if he then drops off? You don't lose/gain a status overnight. Look at Man United at the moment, how many years would it take out of the UCL to no longer call them a big team? Same with any team. 

You don't win 4 championships, lose out a couple of times and then suddenly become 2nd driver, sorry it doesn't work like that. I know Alonso has beaten his team mates mostly since 2006 (Except 2007) but it will be at the end of 2014, 8 years since Alonso won the title, does that suddenly make him a second rate driver? In those 8 years he has "only" challenged 3 times (2007, 2010, 2012). Alonso is still the best driver, despite losing out to a rookie in 2007 and no title since 2006. 

To be honest, it is not even about just the length of time, but by how much. If he beats Vettel by 75 points 2 years in a row with the same amount of DNF's etc. then fine, he is better (Not including this year so far). If he is just slower, then whatever, but F1 has so many variables.

In 2011 did you think to yourself "Oh Button beat Lewis by 43 points, he must be better!"..? I doubt it, Hamilton only had one more DNF that season as well. But we all know Hamilton is better in reality. Hmailton had 3 more DNF's than Button in 2012, I though 1 or 2 were from the lead as well so yeah.

Point being, you don't lose your status after 1/2 bad seasons/years.
Well, Hamilton was (and still is) only a 1x WDC. Hell, even Hill managed to win one WDC. Even Keke Rosberg.

Vettel on the other hand, is a 4xWDC and was compared to the likes of Schumacher by many in and outside this forum.

Schumacher never looked as bad as Vettel does so far against any of his teammates during his first career in F1. Especially not during his prime.

What I'm trying to say is: Given the enormous amount of success, the altitude of Vettel's fall so far this season is quite impressive. Fly high, fall hard.

I knew that one day this sort of success would bite him.
Hamiltons fall in 2011 was far more spectacular to be honest. It is honestly hilarious that after 6 races you are saying about "how far he has fallen". He has had numerous issues and has beaten Ricciardo/outperformed him. Heck, in Monaco, he qualified 4th with a broken car, he said it cost him a few tenths, which would have put him 3rd. Lets just wait and see ok? With any luck, the issues end and we can see how good Ricciardo really is compared to Vettel.
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