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Lets Talk about Vettel.


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Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
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Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.

In 2012, Vergne had 3 DNF's more and still beat him in the standings. His best finish was 8th to Ricciardo's 9th. 
In 2013, Vergne has 2 more DNF's and finished 7 points behind. This was closer, but Vergne actually got a 6th place, Ricciardo's best was 7th. 

Ricciardo was nothing outstanding or anything like Vettel was IMO. Vettel racked up 1 win, 1 4th, 3 5th's, 2 6th's and 2 8th's in 2008
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AMS97KRR said:
Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.
I didn't know Vettel was even in the fight for the WDC that year...
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AMS97KRR said:
Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.
I didn't know Vettel was even in the fight for the WDC that year...
I think it's pretty obvious he meant overtaking him :p
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AMS, you do realize that bringing up how unspectacular Ricciardo looked against Vergne makes Vettel's struggles with Dan look even funnier, right? :D
No, it doesn't. It shows that Vettel was better in a lesser car. Vettel is not struggling to beat him all the time, he has had issues, like I've said, with the car breaking. 

@Mike96 - Why does that matter? It still was not that good. Raikkonen never won a title in a Newey car...


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AMS97KRR said:
AMS, you do realize that bringing up how unspectacular Ricciardo looked against Vergne makes Vettel's struggles with Dan look even funnier, right? :D
No, it doesn't. It shows that Vettel was better in a lesser car. Vettel is not struggling to beat him all the time, he has had issues, like I've said, with the car breaking. 

@Mike96 - Why does that matter? It still was not that good. Raikkonen never won a title in a Newey car...


You can't compare Newey with James Key though, can you?
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
yeah  I don't know if it's a trait among Germans and (I don't mean to insult them as I'm sure there are some really nice German people out there ) but certainly their sports stars do seem to me to have a sense of arrogance about them Schumacher was the same at least I thought so back when he was winning everything towards the end he eased up a bit but certainly during his golden years he had an arrogance about him I didn't like
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
yeah  I don't know if it's a trait among Germans and (I don't mean to insult them as I'm sure there are some really nice German people out there ) but certainly their sports stars do seem to me to have a sense of arrogance about them Schumacher was the same at least I thought so back when he was winning everything towards the end he eased up a bit but certainly during his golden years he had an arrogance about him I didn't like
maybe that what stands them out from the rest and makes them so successful
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I don't remember Schumacher sticking out his finger and scream around after every single win. His trademark was the Schumi-jump on the podium, but that really wasn't arrogant.

I can see why people think Vettel is arrogant, but it's hard for me to see why it should  be the same case with Michael.

Whenever he won due to teamorders, he was not getting tired of metioning his teammate and in Austria 2002 he send Rubens to the top step of the podium-ceremony and gave him the winning trophy. Plus Ruben's got it back that year in Monza and Indianapolis, when Michael let him win.

Remember Vettel doing anything like that? I don't.
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I'm sure everyone who says Schumacher is arrogant thinks of things like this

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11fauf_gp-australia-adelaide-1994-incidente-tra-schumacher-e-hill_sport

Or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWwNU79-tZA
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You say it's arrogant, I say it's a spur of the moment-thing. It's cheating nevertheless of course, but arrogant? Did he go out and say he was proud about it? THAT would've been arrogant for me.

What he did at Monaco that year was unsportsmanlike, but not arrogant. Doesn't make it better, I know.

About Adelaide: Can you please tell me, why this was in any way unfair? He went off the track, rejoined it and as he was still ahead of Hill took the next corner first. Hill should've waited one more corner to comfortably take the lead.

Btw, Hill seemed to think exactly the same in his first interview after the accident: Just type in "Adelaide '94: Hill's first interview after crashing with Schumacher."

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Absolutely, 100%.

Schumi was ahead, he had the right to take the next corner first. Hill should've waited, instead of going for such a risky move. He should've known better, especially with a championship being on the line and Schumi being the one defending his position.

Go watch the interview I suggested to see Hill's first reaction (before he realized he could turn this into a "Schumi cheated"-thing).
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We will never know because Hill made him catapult into the tyre-barriers seconds after that. :P

Nah, seriously, if you want to bring up Michael's attempts to cheat, then I agree that Jerez 97 or Monaco 06 are good examples for that but then again, he wasn't the only WDC to do that. I personally feel like Senna's 1990-crash at Suzuka was 10 times worse than Jerez 97 for example.

Anyway, let's not start a Schumacher vs Senna argument, I'm sick of these by now. :P
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Absolutely, 100%.

:))

Being ahead when you turn in to a corner doesn't give a driver an unrivalled access to swing the car towards the apex. Especially in this case. Schumacher had just been off so he knew Hill would be right on the back of him and would have much more momentum. And then, let's just say as diplomatically as possible, when Hill went for the inside Schumacher made very little attempt to ensure they both got round the corner without damage. 
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have to agree with Mike he did what he did to make sure Hill went into retirement too because he knew that was the only way he'd take the title. Schumacher knew his car was damaged and couldn't continue so in my opinion that counts but it's not just his actions on track though as I felt he had a bit of arrogance in his interviews as well in general just his overall demeanour seemed arrogant to me. I'm not saying he didn't deserve the success he got because for the most part I think he did but In general he didn't strike me as particularly friendly and a win at all costs kind of guy during those years
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  • 3 weeks later...
That's what I do but then it's all blank.


that's what happens to me as well if you click on the button that says Show source and post the link on a separate line then it'll work that's generally how I get this forum to post my videos. It's not a perfect solution as it throws the writing in the post off a bit but it's the best I've been able to do so far
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Ok, take 2: (thnx to Prawn)
KuB said:
I´sorry but can anybody give me an example where vettel shows that he´s arrogant


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KriQR-TwBAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gNDQiMnAr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkFCE-9BRfE
(+ calling another driver an idiot/cucumber)

Just three things off the top of my head.

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