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Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
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Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.

In 2012, Vergne had 3 DNF's more and still beat him in the standings. His best finish was 8th to Ricciardo's 9th. 
In 2013, Vergne has 2 more DNF's and finished 7 points behind. This was closer, but Vergne actually got a 6th place, Ricciardo's best was 7th. 

Ricciardo was nothing outstanding or anything like Vettel was IMO. Vettel racked up 1 win, 1 4th, 3 5th's, 2 6th's and 2 8th's in 2008
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AMS97KRR said:
Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.
I didn't know Vettel was even in the fight for the WDC that year...
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AMS97KRR said:
Aha, switching to 2009 doesn't do your theory of Vettel being able to win in slower cars any favour AMS.

The RB5 was excellent in the wet at China, a dominant 1-2 is a display of that. And from Silverstone on, they were far ahead of Brawn with the exception of Valencia and Monza only.
No, but he built on his success during 2008 did he not? Nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC....

He drove very well in that STR at times, which is why he was promoted. He made better use of his equipment than Ricciardo did that is for sure.
I didn't know Vettel was even in the fight for the WDC that year...
I think it's pretty obvious he meant overtaking him :p
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AMS, you do realize that bringing up how unspectacular Ricciardo looked against Vergne makes Vettel's struggles with Dan look even funnier, right? :D
No, it doesn't. It shows that Vettel was better in a lesser car. Vettel is not struggling to beat him all the time, he has had issues, like I've said, with the car breaking. 

@Mike96 - Why does that matter? It still was not that good. Raikkonen never won a title in a Newey car...


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AMS97KRR said:
AMS, you do realize that bringing up how unspectacular Ricciardo looked against Vergne makes Vettel's struggles with Dan look even funnier, right? :D
No, it doesn't. It shows that Vettel was better in a lesser car. Vettel is not struggling to beat him all the time, he has had issues, like I've said, with the car breaking. 

@Mike96 - Why does that matter? It still was not that good. Raikkonen never won a title in a Newey car...


You can't compare Newey with James Key though, can you?
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
yeah  I don't know if it's a trait among Germans and (I don't mean to insult them as I'm sure there are some really nice German people out there ) but certainly their sports stars do seem to me to have a sense of arrogance about them Schumacher was the same at least I thought so back when he was winning everything towards the end he eased up a bit but certainly during his golden years he had an arrogance about him I didn't like
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Actually , to be honest , I'm coming round to Vettel a little bit ( emphasis on little ) this year. He seems to have lost some of the arrogance he had now that he's not winning. Of course , I still think he's arrogant , but if he lost all of that arrogance he seems like a really likable guy.
yeah  I don't know if it's a trait among Germans and (I don't mean to insult them as I'm sure there are some really nice German people out there ) but certainly their sports stars do seem to me to have a sense of arrogance about them Schumacher was the same at least I thought so back when he was winning everything towards the end he eased up a bit but certainly during his golden years he had an arrogance about him I didn't like
maybe that what stands them out from the rest and makes them so successful
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I don't remember Schumacher sticking out his finger and scream around after every single win. His trademark was the Schumi-jump on the podium, but that really wasn't arrogant.

I can see why people think Vettel is arrogant, but it's hard for me to see why it should  be the same case with Michael.

Whenever he won due to teamorders, he was not getting tired of metioning his teammate and in Austria 2002 he send Rubens to the top step of the podium-ceremony and gave him the winning trophy. Plus Ruben's got it back that year in Monza and Indianapolis, when Michael let him win.

Remember Vettel doing anything like that? I don't.
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I'm sure everyone who says Schumacher is arrogant thinks of things like this

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11fauf_gp-australia-adelaide-1994-incidente-tra-schumacher-e-hill_sport

Or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWwNU79-tZA
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