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Lets Talk about Vettel.


DiRTKiNG808
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So surely he should get massive credit for learning the best way to drive a blow-diffuser car? Webber couldn't and he was always highly rated. If you drive in a certain style for 4 years and then have to change, you struggle at first. I guess it would be like asking a footballer who is a defensive midfielder to play at Centre-back or a fullback on the wing. Takes time, give people a chance.
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It's not as if Vettel was the only one driving with EBD. All the other top drivers did aswell, I seem to recall McLaren relying heavily on the blown diffuser in 2011, yet it wasn't and it isn't Lewis Hamilton struggling in 2012 or 2014.

If Vettel's poor form (even when his car is alright) continues, people will say he is a very limited driver. Limited to the blown-diffuser type of driving.

We'll see.
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AMS97KRR said:
So surely he should get massive credit for learning the best way to drive a blow-diffuser car? Webber couldn't and he was always highly rated. If you drive in a certain style for 4 years and then have to change, you struggle at first. I guess it would be like asking a footballer who is a defensive midfielder to play at Centre-back or a fullback on the wing. Takes time, give people a chance.
Yeah , I mean it's not like everyone else has been driving EBD cars for the past 4 years. Give the guy a break guys. Everyone else has had way more time to adapt to these new cars than Vettel has.  8-|
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Webber has the most important advantage over Vettel though, he's not an arrogant, whiny, crybaby when things don't go his way.
I beg to differ. Even in his Jaguar-days, Webber always had something to say when something went wrong, but it was viewed as "being real" like how people looked at Villeneuve and Montoya at first.
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Lukedfrt said:
V10s, V8s, V6s, grooved tyres, slick tyres, Michelin, Bridgestone, Pirelli, traction control, no traction control. 

Alonso has adapted to all of these ;) 
And now he's rubbish. Adapting is one thing. Actually being successful is another.
I'd say the team he is driving for is actually rubbish, he's doing the best he can.
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andmcq said:
andmcq said:
Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)
No, Vettel is just a better driver. 
Only in a car that was using the diffuser.
That you can´t know because they aren´t racing eachother in a car that doesn´t use the diffuser.

Vettel has got a special driving style that only woks with the diffuser. You only can see this on his head when he turns into a chicane. He looks at the next corner or at the output of the corner while other drivers looks at the middle of the corner. But that doesn´t work without the diffuser. The back goes away when he makes this to aggressive.
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KuB said:

andmcq said:
andmcq said:
Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)
No, Vettel is just a better driver. 
Only in a car that was using the diffuser.
That you can´t know because they aren´t racing eachother in a car that doesn´t use the diffuser.
2009, no blown diffusers- Webber somewhat matched Vettel
2010, when blown diffusers were in their infancy- Webber was ahead of Vettel going into the last race of the season
2011, blown diffusers turned up to eleven- Vettel was streets ahead of the rest
Start of 2012, new regs that banned blown diffusers- Webber matched Vettel
Later part of 2012, when Newey got the blown diffuser effect back using Coanda exhausts- Vettel dominated
2013, same exhaust regs as 2011- Vettel dominated once the tyres were sorted
2014, blown diffusers completely outlawed- Vettel beaten by his teammate.

Sufficient evidence if you ask me.
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KuB said:

andmcq said:
andmcq said:
Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)
No, Vettel is just a better driver. 
Only in a car that was using the diffuser.
That you can´t know because they aren´t racing eachother in a car that doesn´t use the diffuser.

Vettel has got a special driving style that only woks with the diffuser. You only can see this on his head when he turns into a chicane. He looks at the next corner or at the output of the corner while other drivers looks at the middle of the corner. But that doesn´t work without the diffuser. The back goes away when he makes this to aggressive.
That's what we are saying, he can only drive good with a car that has the diffuser and every other driver looks at the next corner aswell if they don't they shouldn't be racing.
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KuB said:

andmcq said:
andmcq said:
Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)
No, Vettel is just a better driver. 
Only in a car that was using the diffuser.
That you can´t know because they aren´t racing eachother in a car that doesn´t use the diffuser.

Vettel has got a special driving style that only woks with the diffuser. You only can see this on his head when he turns into a chicane. He looks at the next corner or at the output of the corner while other drivers looks at the middle of the corner. But that doesn´t work without the diffuser. The back goes away when he makes this to aggressive.
What has the EBD got to do with a driver looking at the next corner? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard and that's despite knowing AMS for a while now.
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You do realize they also say that Mark and Seb were not in exactly the same position in the corner when those pics were made, right? Kind of makes the whole video pointless.

Apart from the fact that this isn't the first time Peter Windsor was taking BS material to prove his point lol.


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Mexicola said:
andmcq said:
Mexicola said:
andmcq said:
I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
lol
It's actually the most probable scenario. ...

lol
'the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel'

Which precisely highlights a key weakness of Vettel- an inability to adapt, or alternatively an ability to drive only certain types of cars well.
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yugin96 said:
KuB said:

andmcq said:
andmcq said:
Vettel is as good as any of the other top 6 drivers. Much like Shumacher or Senna, his wins have come about because he's one of the top drivers who happens to also have the best car and the best crew. He's a great driver though, can't take anything away from that.

I'm a huge Ricciardo fan, but the reason Ric is out pacing Vettel is because the 2014 car suits his driving and experience much greater than it suits Vettel. 
So , the same reason Vettel beat Webber then ?  ;)
No, Vettel is just a better driver. 
Only in a car that was using the diffuser.
That you can´t know because they aren´t racing eachother in a car that doesn´t use the diffuser.
2009, no blown diffusers- Webber somewhat matched Vettel
2010, when blown diffusers were in their infancy- Webber was ahead of Vettel going into the last race of the season
2011, blown diffusers turned up to eleven- Vettel was streets ahead of the rest
Start of 2012, new regs that banned blown diffusers- Webber matched Vettel
Later part of 2012, when Newey got the blown diffuser effect back using Coanda exhausts- Vettel dominated
2013, same exhaust regs as 2011- Vettel dominated once the tyres were sorted
2014, blown diffusers completely outlawed- Vettel beaten by his teammate.

Sufficient evidence if you ask me.
2010 is not right. Vettel lost 50 points (Korea and Australia) and what, 10 in Bahrain through mechanical issues. Webber wasn't better that season. 
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