F1 2018 sounds

[Arcadexx 0]

After playing with alot of F1 Mods on Assetto Corsa, I find it really hard to understand how modders without resources like CM can make a better job than the sound Devs for CM.

Honestly, how can that be? For everything good and better from 2017, the sounds aren't even that close to being good..better than 2017 for some cars but still off way way off.

Disappointed 

[LFSwicked 53]

If Codies F1 game had real onboard sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpmfTgCUBD0

[Cap10 23]

that is how it should sound like... audio team I hope your watching this and listening to our feedeback.

[UP100 1,151]

I would guess Codemasters aren't allowed to rip the audio from broadcast. Those modders don't care about laws anyways.

[DiRTKiNG808 15]

They are like Robbin Hood. Steal from the rich and give to the fans!

[N6A6ME6 0]

UP100 said:

I would guess Codemasters aren't allowed to rip the audio from broadcast. Those modders don't care about laws anyways.

codies should just be able to get audio from F1....codies are the licensed company for f1 so they should have the best

[Worntoathread 865]

N6A6ME6 said:

UP100 said:

I would guess Codemasters aren't allowed to rip the audio from broadcast. Those modders don't care about laws anyways.

codies should just be able to get audio from F1....codies are the licensed company for f1 so they should have the best

I'd say if they could they would, but these licenses ( especially FOM's ) can be weirdly specific and complicated. I do know they actually mounted microphones on some cars during winter testing, and I think you can definitely hear a big improvement in at least the Ferrari engines with the turbo whistle etc.

[Operator1 4]

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

[MohsenREZAEI 2]

i wanted to post a topic about this issue 
i mean sounds of  F1 game about main sound of engiens 
specially ferrai and haas 
we hear the engine sounds of f1 2017 game and we knew that aren't realy 
but looks like Asseto Corsa is better than F12017 
and when is saw new asseto corsa f1 game and listen new engine sounds i like very realy sounds about cars 
Engine sounds of real world specially Ferrai is like Phantom sound that grow sounds when drivers shift up step by step 
please repair the engine sounds like real world 

[Worntoathread 865]

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

[Julien2395 0]

It's a god damn game, not a simulator. Babies. 

[LFSwicked 53]

Julien2395 said:

It's a god damn game, not a simulator. Babies. 

We're babies because we'd like the game we play to improve on an authentic aspect? And actually, calling us babies makes you sound childish. 

[martbloke 668]

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

Just putting it out there, if you have signed an NDA and said you will not break it then I'm reading this as you DON'T have 1st hand knowledge of the license as you have suggested this could be a reason in your post. Therefore is Operator not correct? If he is wrong, then have you broken NDA? 

[Worntoathread 865]

martbloke said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

Just putting it out there, if you have signed an NDA and said you will not break it then I'm reading this as you DON'T have 1st hand knowledge of the license as you have suggested this could be a reason in your post. Therefore is Operator not correct? If he is wrong, then have you broken NDA? 

I'm allowed to talk about the experience the same way the Youtubers are, and that's really just what I did here. I mentioned a conversation that I had, I did not reveal any specific/protected details like I explained. Maybe the answer would even be allowed to be shared, I will ask them. I just had to be careful of course.

And It's not really about proving anyone right or wrong, I just wanted to explain the situation to make clear there might be a bit more to it, and that what I (and others ) said may not just come from thin air like it was suggested.

[Arcadexx 0]

I really wanted to start a meaningful conversation, and I thank everyone that provided context, if this is somewhat related to contracts and copyright, wouldn't the Devs be able to replicate the sounds using other methods? The official F1 Ferrari cars in Assetto Corsa aren't perfect either BUT, alot better...tolerable.

I'm talking here about what we saw in the trailers, obscured with comments and other things that don't let us hear everything spot on, but from what we heard, and even after watching the race today and the F1 2018 lap around the track, I can't be less than disappointed at the sound of the game.

For some it's not important, for others it's crucial for immersion and realism.

I just think honestly that if the dirt games can simulate well enough a rally car, why not F1 ? Even the classic cars sound better (personal opinion) in the game than the current ones.

[UP100 1,151]

Also it depends what kind of sounds you're looking for. F1 games have so many background noises. Sure the car sounds aren't the best, but those get improved every year it seems.

[Operator1 4]

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

Anyone who has not seen & read the actual license agreement itself with their own eyes has no first-hand knowledge of this license agreement (that's what "first-hand knowledge" means).

It also doesn't carry any credibility to reference an unciteable source as a reason/justification for anything... "It might or might not be allowed in the licensing agreement, but we can't say one way or the other because the first rule about the license agreement is: don't talk about the license agreement."

[Worntoathread 865]

Operator1 said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

Anyone who has not seen & read the actual license agreement itself with their own eyes has no first-hand knowledge of this license agreement (that's what "first-hand knowledge" means).

It also doesn't carry any credibility to reference an unciteable source as a reason/justification for anything... "It might or might not be allowed in the licensing agreement, but we can't say one way or the other because the first rule about the license agreement is: don't talk about the license agreement."

That's taking it too far if you ask me. You're saying that when the actual audio designers of the very game we're discussing here tell me in person that they either are or aren't allowed to do something according to a license, it's not a credible source if I haven't read that same license/contract myself? If you're in court that would make some sense, but to me that sounds like some trust issues. 

I'd like to leave this discussion behind as I realized it probably wasn't a very good idea to bring my own experiences with the developer team into this discussion, and I think it's best for this topic if we purely focus on the game's actual audio quality from here on. I've requested @Faya to remove all posts related to the topics I mentioned for this reason. 

[Operator1 4]

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

Anyone who has not seen & read the actual license agreement itself with their own eyes has no first-hand knowledge of this license agreement (that's what "first-hand knowledge" means).

It also doesn't carry any credibility to reference an unciteable source as a reason/justification for anything... "It might or might not be allowed in the licensing agreement, but we can't say one way or the other because the first rule about the license agreement is: don't talk about the license agreement."

That's taking it too far if you ask me. You're saying that when the actual audio designers of the very game we're discussing here tell me in person that they either are or aren't allowed to do something according to a license, it's not a credible source if I haven't read that same license/contract myself? If you're in court that would make some sense, but to me that sounds like some trust issues. 

I'd like to leave this discussion behind as I realized it probably wasn't a very good idea to bring my own experiences with the developer team into this discussion, and I think it's best for this topic if we purely focus on the game's actual audio quality from here on. I've requested @Faya to remove all posts related to the topics I mentioned for this reason. 

You might be correct. You might not. The only point I'm making is that the validity of licensing claims carries no credibility without citation of the license itself. Nobody can authoritatively refer to an invisible source as a plausible backing for any claims. It's not about producing courtroom-grade evidence, it's simply basic conversational convention - people aren't typically taken seriously when they say things like: "it is what it is because of something I once heard/read somebody say about a mysterious document that none of us have ever seen & can't cite & can't talk about."

[issueskid 134]

Hi all. Just to clear things up without giving away too many details.

I can confirm all engines in game are authentic and every year we attend test sessions and work directly with F1 teams.We record engines on board use similar mics and mic placement as the official broadcast. I'd also add though that we do find the engines tend to sound different between winter testing and the start of the season and again when comparing races throughout the season we often find that a Mercedes for example will sound slightly different from race to race.

We've experimented over the years to try and get a balance between authenticity and a great sounding game and often we find when we do include very authentic details from broadcast we actually get a lot of complaints about certain sounds being too harsh or irritating over long periods of time. We also get a huge amount of comments that fall on all sides of the spectrum. Take the beta forum this year for example, many people have commented on how accurate the engines are sounding and we've nailed the broadcast sound. Others are critical that other games or mods are much better than what we create. We're never going to please everybody, although we do try to please as many as possible ;) 

Obviously we can't take on board all of this feedback when many of it is conflicting but we do listen to feedback and just like you guys, we want the game to sound as good as possible.

[LFSwicked 53]

issueskid said:

Hi all. Just to clear things up without giving away too many details.

I can confirm all engines in game are authentic and every year we attend test sessions and work directly with F1 teams.We record engines on board use similar mics and mic placement as the official broadcast. I'd also add though that we do find the engines tend to sound different between winter testing and the start of the season and again when comparing races throughout the season we often find that a Mercedes for example will sound slightly different from race to race.

We've experimented over the years to try and get a balance between authenticity and a great sounding game and often we find when we do include very authentic details from broadcast we actually get a lot of complaints about certain sounds being too harsh or irritating over long periods of time. We also get a huge amount of comments that fall on all sides of the spectrum. Take the beta forum this year for example, many people have commented on how accurate the engines are sounding and we've nailed the broadcast sound. Others are critical that other games or mods are much better than what we create. We're never going to please everybody, although we do try to please as many as possible ;) 

Obviously we can't take on board all of this feedback when many of it is conflicting but we do listen to feedback and just like you guys, we want the game to sound as good as possible.

Thank you so much for the response ! 

[issueskid 134]

@LFSwicked, No problem - we do try and interact with the community and we want the audio to be great, just as you do.
We're never going to please everybody but just know that we are passionate about making F1 and I genuinely believe we've made huge improvements to audio over the last 3 games so we came together as a team :)

[LSKone 105]

I always thought that the engine sound in the F1 games was very solid. Especially the sound of the classic cars, it's really good. 
Although after seeing the video with the *real* sound, there sure are noticeable differences.

[LilBrown47 6]

@issueskid

Awesome info, thanks for clarifying and giving us official insight on your work.

After having watched the footages of E3 and all the other gameplay of F1 2018 that you have published so far i can only say that you most definitely nailed the tone, the growling and the upshift / downshift turbo whistle that is connected to the upshifts / downshifts of the Ferrari to the point that everyone could agree that it sounds just like the real deal.

However, 2 things that striked my ears.

For one that the Ferrari in this years game was missing the unique second turbo whine that came to the new 2018 Ferrari engine audio experience which seems to be independent to the up- and downshift procedure but possibly is connected to the overal speed / rpm, as it is right now the in game Ferrari sounds more like the real one of 2017.

For second that the car chassis rattling + car flooring sound effects in general for all cars where non existent in the published footage even though the irl TV Pod camera has made us listen to that jittery sound effect over and over again throughout the years of the modern V6 era since 2014 every time a car hits the floor, the kerbs or the bumps of the circuit.

Will the new unique and individual turbo whine whistle of each 2018 team and the car chassis rattling + car flooring sound effects be included til release or maybe at a later time via patch / update etc.?

Here's a link to the irl footage of Sebs Pole Lap at Hockenheim for reference to Ferraris second independent turbo whine:

https://youtu.be/Bs_LIBPTAdg

PS: I also wanted to share my personal opinion on the in game Mercedes / Renault engines, they don't seem to have their individual dominant unique turbo whine to them at all in the few videos that have been published lately, (maybe it was simply YouTube compression?).

Here are links to both the irl Mercedes engine (LH44 pole lap at France) + Renault engine (The Ozzy Honeybadgers pole lap at Monaco) for reference to their unique turbo whines:

https://youtu.be/8D_uhuf3UkI

https://youtu.be/xbrKA6IwgcM

PPS: All three TV POD videos do make the car chassis rattling + car flooring sound effects very audible.

PPPS: Hope to see the audio team in one of the dev diaries! :)

[issueskid 134]

@LilBrown47, thanks for the feedback - we will go through these comments as always :)
When you say "car flooring sound" are you referring to the car hitting the rumble strip or bottoming out or something else?