F1 2018 sounds

[LilBrown47 6]

@issueskid

"Bottoming out" i guess?

I am not sure and can't put it into the right words as i do not know the correct definition of this very specific sound effect, but i will try to give it a go at explaining what i mean:

When the modern V6 cars hit high speeds, roll harshly through the corners, are driven on bumpy circuits and or are braking they usually create a very distinctive shaky, jittery, sound effect like someone is shaking a bottle filled with sand or wood flakes quite aggressively, it almost exclusively appears when the car is under heavy loads and moves in a way that the floor of the car hits the ground it seems.

PS: Here's a link to the highlights of the 2018 Bahrain GP, it got lots of action and lots of the "sound effect" i was trying to explain:

https://youtu.be/kq6bLFs0QYE

Especially the RBR at the 00:00:30 second mark and the Mercedes at the 00:00:47 second mark, both under heavy braking whilst being forced to the wall trying to overtake their opponents, create that shaky sound effect quite impressively imo.

[kraM1t 22]

It's the titanium skid blocks scraping the tarmac, as the aero force increases it pushes the car lower and it scrapes the floor and does that sound, would be nice in game tbh

[Worntoathread 865]

issueskid said:

Hi all. Just to clear things up without giving away too many details.

I can confirm all engines in game are authentic and every year we attend test sessions and work directly with F1 teams.We record engines on board use similar mics and mic placement as the official broadcast. I'd also add though that we do find the engines tend to sound different between winter testing and the start of the season and again when comparing races throughout the season we often find that a Mercedes for example will sound slightly different from race to race.

We've experimented over the years to try and get a balance between authenticity and a great sounding game and often we find when we do include very authentic details from broadcast we actually get a lot of complaints about certain sounds being too harsh or irritating over long periods of time. We also get a huge amount of comments that fall on all sides of the spectrum. Take the beta forum this year for example, many people have commented on how accurate the engines are sounding and we've nailed the broadcast sound. Others are critical that other games or mods are much better than what we create. We're never going to please everybody, although we do try to please as many as possible ;) 

Obviously we can't take on board all of this feedback when many of it is conflicting but we do listen to feedback and just like you guys, we want the game to sound as good as possible.

Thank you for the response, much appreciated. I've seen the passion and effort you put into your work when I had the pleasure of meeting you and David and it's really nice to see a little bit of that shared with everyone here on the forums now. I hope it can become a more regular thing in the future.

I think some big steps have been made with the audio the last couple of years (especially this year). I also agree with pretty much all of @LilBrown47 's feedback about possible improvements. I'm curious, do you actually synthesize some additional sounds on top of the recordings like the turbo for example? Can you mix that independently from engine noise or is it more like one recording where you'd have to EQ it to bring out the turbo more? It'd be interesting to know a little bit more about the process.

It would be great if we could one day see some 'behind the scenes/dev diary' footage of how you guys do the recording with the teams on track and how you actually turn that audio into something that's playable.

[SASColfer 56]

I completely agree that the sounds have really evolved and improved over the years but I'd say one area that I always feel is lacking is the replay sounds. They're always so dull sounding, especially on the classics! It's really the only area sound-wise that I think other games trump F1.

[martbloke 668]

Worntoathread said:

martbloke said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

Just putting it out there, if you have signed an NDA and said you will not break it then I'm reading this as you DON'T have 1st hand knowledge of the license as you have suggested this could be a reason in your post. Therefore is Operator not correct? If he is wrong, then have you broken NDA? 

I'm allowed to talk about the experience the same way the Youtubers are, and that's really just what I did here. I mentioned a conversation that I had, I did not reveal any specific/protected details like I explained. Maybe the answer would even be allowed to be shared, I will ask them. I just had to be careful of course.

And It's not really about proving anyone right or wrong, I just wanted to explain the situation to make clear there might be a bit more to it, and that what I (and others ) said may not just come from thin air like it was suggested.

Fair enough. Thanks is for clarifying.

[Naeemali007 3]

Yep Agreed , Sound has been weak part of the game , which is disappointing , as F1 is all about sound, I am aware from 2014 , Hybrid sound is weak but I went to Austin both in 2014, 2015 and 2016 , when at Grandprix they still amazing.......  They should hire new sound guy or add to that team, as I keep on hearing they hired new art director for improved graphic..  

[issueskid 134]

Worntoathread said: 

It would be great if we could one day see some 'behind the scenes/dev diary' footage of how you guys do the recording with the teams on track and how you actually turn that audio into something that's playable.

The one problem with this is being able to film inside garages. Teams are very strict on the use of cameras in the garages so it would be very difficult to get teams to agree to let us walk around and film the process.

In terms of synthesized audio - no we always try and make sure everything we use in game is real world where possible, this includes the turbo.
As for the bottom out scraping sounds, we do have that in game and you'll mainly hear it when you see plank sparks from the back of the car.
Also keep in mind that the Beta wasn't 100% final audio - we've made some changes since that was released.

[issueskid 134]

Naeemali007 said:

Yep Agreed , Sound has been weak part of the game , which is disappointing , as F1 is all about sound, I am aware from 2014 , Hybrid sound is weak but I went to Austin both in 2014, 2015 and 2016 , when at Grandprix they still amazing.......  They should hire new sound guy or add to that team, as I keep on hearing they hired new art director for improved graphic..  

@davidjgurney, shall we show ourselves the door then?

[Tunari89 0]

Oh, yeah. The sounds could be quite a lot better. That's for sure, as some of the engine sounds we have now, has been quite horrible, tbh. 

[LFSwicked 53]

It's quite obvious though that this year, we're getting the best audio we've ever gotten in the franchise. 

[Worntoathread 865]

LFSwicked said:

It's quite obvious though that this year, we're getting the best audio we've ever gotten in the franchise. 

Yeah, just listen to the new Ferrari engine sound in this vid, it sounds great if you ask me. Looking forward to driving this with the speakers cranked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VafYGSfwY8k

[LilBrown47 6]

Worntoathread said:

LFSwicked said:

It's quite obvious though that this year, we're goetting the best audio we've ever gotten in the franchise. 

Yeah, just listen to the new Ferrari engine sound in this vid, it sounds great if you ask me. Looking forward to driving this with the speakers cranked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VafYGSfwY8k

Awesome, thanks for sharing mate!


   

[LilBrown47 6]

@issueskid

>As for the bottom out scraping sounds, we do have that in game and you'll mainly hear it when you see plank sparks from the back of the car.

Nice, great to see that the fellas of the audio section at Codemasters are indeed trying their best to get all the little details into the mix.

It seems as if the previous upload of F1 2018's in game footage on YouTube wasn't as high quality for the sound, as in the earlier footage of this years in game Ferrari engine the sound overall wasn't clearly audible to make out all the details tbh.

Either way, as great as it is to have that amazing detail in the game, imo i still found the "bottoming out" effect to be a little bit too silent.

------------------------------

Does this "bottoming out" effect become more apparent when the car gets setup at a lower ride height?

------------------------------

In the video that @Worntoathread thankfully has shared, which has been uploaded by F1Games.de, we can faintly hear that "bottoming out" sound effect right before the final corner of Canada at the end of the lap itself, but if we compare that little segment of the game video to Sebs real life Pole Lap at Canada, the"bottoming out" sound definitely needs to be audible at a much more frequent rate and needs to be a bit louder tbh.

Here's a link to Sebs Canada Pole Lap:

https://youtu.be/OCv0qcyrUeU

------------------------------

PS: After having rewatched the RBR (Renault engine) + Force India (Mercedes engine) footages of this years F1 2018 game, one thing seemed to be a bit too loud:

The tyre skidding effect when cornering.

On Live TV Broadcast footages that effect isn't as pronounced as in the game, this is why i wanted to ask whether or not we will get a option to individually adjust the volumes of each component of the full sound mix such as:

-Tyre Skidding Effect & Lock Ups.
-Turbo Whine.
-Wind.
-Crowd.
-Engine.
-Bottoming Out Effect.

If we could get a option to individually adjust the volume of these components of the overall sound mix to a certain degree, it would definitely give more freedom to those that want to experiment with the audio whilst playing and make the experience much more personal.

Also, you could even create different sound presets in this specific, hypothetical, audio option menu such as:

-Cockpit Mix (basically the sound inside of the cockpit)

-Helmet Mix (basically cockpit mix with an added EQ filter on top to emulate the muffled sound that the drivers have)

-TV Broadcast Mix (basically the same sound as on TV or on the real life onboard Pole Lap footages)

-Offboard Mix (basically the sound we got accustomed to in far chase cam and near chase cam enforced on all camera angles)

-Engine Mix (basically pronouncing the engine over all the other parts of the audio)

-Tyre Mix (basically pronouncing the tyres over all the other parts of the audio) etc.

[issueskid 134]

"The tyre skidding effect when cornering."
This depends on whether you have assists on or not. Our skids / scrubs are actually based on what the traction / wheels are doing so if you've got assists turned on the car won't be acting naturally and you'll hear these a lot more frequently. Turn the assist off and you'll notice it behaves a lot more naturally. 

This is similar with bottoming out. The audio for plank scraping is actually based on the ride height so if the car in game is scraping along the floor and sparks are visible you'll hear the plank scrap sfx. From an audio point of view e don't actually control when this is triggered, it's actually based on when the plank is hitting a surface rather than us faking it.

[Cap10 23]

why you guys made the Ferrari sound like the McLaren Honda 2016??? when it off throttle  during engine braking at low speed that strange unique sound it made.
Ferrari engine does not sound like this off throttle engine braking at low speed. compared to what you guys did it makes a low rumbling growl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDoDXNCEZIM

for reference and comparison listen to these onboard from same track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbjQ24F91EA

[LFSwicked 53]

I like that rumbling growl so...I don't mind if it's on every car :P :P 

[Cap10 23]

well I don't since it unrealistic for the Ferrari engine. 
issueskid please elaborate on this have you indeed used some old audio from honda 2016 to get that rumbling growl into the Ferrari audio mix?

[issueskid 134]

Cap10 said:

well I don't since it unrealistic for the Ferrari engine. 
issueskid please elaborate on this have you indeed used some old audio from honda 2016 to get that rumbling growl into the Ferrari audio mix?

The Ferrari 2018 is all new for this year - it doesn't use any Honda assets :)
There are of course auxiliary assets played back over engine bundles to add other details but Ferrari and Honda don't share any of these assets.

[Cap10 23]

issueskid said:

Cap10 said:

well I don't since it unrealistic for the Ferrari engine. 
issueskid please elaborate on this have you indeed used some old audio from honda 2016 to get that rumbling growl into the Ferrari audio mix?

The Ferrari 2018 is all new for this year - it doesn't use any Honda assets :)
There are of course auxiliary assets played back over engine bundles to add other details but Ferrari and Honda don't share any of these assets.

thank you for taking time to answer. i'm a bit confused because it has same distinct rumbling growl while shiting down under engine braking as the honda in your 2016 game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=iDoDXNCEZIM

however irl the Ferrari has more a low deep growl that nicely blends with the engine tone.
it a shame because everything els sounds good the engine tone, upshift and turbo are on point. 

[davidjgurney 7]

Cap10 said:

thank you for taking time to answer. i'm a bit confused because it has same distinct rumbling growl while shiting down under engine braking as the honda in your 2016 game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=iDoDXNCEZIM

however irl the Ferrari has more a low deep growl that nicely blends with the engine tone.
it a shame because everything els sounds good the engine tone, upshift and turbo are on point. 

Hi @Cap10, this year we have spent 100s of hours going over our recordings and experimenting with new methods of producing our audio effects to make our cars sound the closest to real life as they ever have. It's definitely not the 2016 McLaren sound, but they are similar.

It seems all manufacturers this year have sounds that occur under off-throttle/coasting conditions, so we replicated them and got them playing back in-game. See the youtube video I've attached for reference for the Ferrari power-unit growl. All the manufacturers have unique sounds for gearshift/clutch, and the growling.

https://youtu.be/ZxOeq_mSedQ?t=2m3s

[hyperzzF1 11]

@issueskid What about spectator mode sound? It was always pretty... average. Is it better in F1 2018?

[davidjgurney 7]

path1337 said:

@issueskid What about spectator mode sound? It was always pretty... average. Is it better in F1 2018?

 I think you'll be happy. All areas of the sound have been improved for 2018. We are F1 fans too and want to provide the best for everyone

[CarmineRock97 2]

Hi guys! To all the Audio Designers who are working hard, and listening to all the feedback of the F1 Games community, Thank you! I would like to share with you my opinion which i think it could improve the "fidelity" of the sound in game with the real one that we hear from the TV Broadcast. I think that in general, the sound is really good, but are details that make the difference: for example, in various gameplays that I saw on youtube, there is something about downshifting that doesn't convince me much. I think that engine RPM sound during downshifting is too low. In fact, in TV when we hear cars during the downshift, we can still hear the engine RPM much "present", and same for the Turbo sound. For the rest, everything sound excellent, although it could be further improved, (Not in terms of quality, but in terms of sound mix. Sounds that i think need to be balanced with others). Thats it for me. Sorry for the "soo long" comment, thank you for the time that you dedicate to listen to us, and I hope you'll make an even better job, because SOUND is a very important part of Videogames, films and so on… The sound makes us fall in love, and envelops us completely in the gaming experience :)

[issueskid 134]

@path1337, yep, as Dave sound we've done a lot on the engines this year.
I guess you'll have to see for yourself if it's the improvement you're looking for but we're all certainly happy with our progress this year.

[issueskid 134]

@CarmineRock97, downshifts have certainly been something we've been looking at over the last 2 or 3 games now and we know this is something the community want us to nail too. We hear ya and we'll keep improving these elements :)