F1 2018 sounds

[LFSwicked 53]

Gotta give Codies credit for this years audio though. It's not perfect, other games do it better but there's no denying how much they improved it. 

[Cap10 23]

davidjgurney  and why is that? 

I fully acknowledge, no doubt progress has been made. 
but it always seem that it always same areas that have been lacking and need attention  like the downshifting sounds & engine braking rumbling, onboard and tv replay cam just listen to that Ferrari from asseto corsa and compare to your tv replay cam it just so obvious that you are missing lots of details in the downshifting engine braking and engine rpm tones under acceleration & deceleration.


compare this @12:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeehFW8-xcU

to this it speak/sound for it self if you do not agree that this sound is more complete and detailed then what your studio have created then we have a serious issue. sorry for been so critical and that you don't like that but this is the reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AccXByWHkMc

[LilBrown47 6]

@Cap10

I totally agree with your sentiment and you do raise some valid points mate, but why so much hostility?

A base form of a respectful neutral discussion is the key to any valuable constructive feedback that people can work with, otherwise this thread possibly might get locked down like the "Official HUD" one as well, which was simply unfortunate, let's not try to go that far but instead keep this thread alive as people have made some great points in here for sure.

PS: The offboard sound in the 2nd video you listed in your previous post is great, hope Codies will have a "look" into it, or in this case a "listen".

[Cap10 23]

LilBrown47 said:

@Cap10

I agree with your sentiment and you do raise some valid points mate, but why so  much hostility?

A base form of a respectful neutral discussion is the key to any valuable constructive feedback that people can work with, otherwise this thread possibly might get locked down like the "Official HUD" one as well, which was simply unfortunate, let's not try to go that far but instead keep this thread alive as people have made some great points in here for sure.

PS: The offboard sound in the 2nd video you listed in your previous post is great, hope Codies will have a "look" into it, or in this case a "listen".

i'm not trying to be hostile or insulting anyone just stating the facts and been honest and direct! you and them can perceive this how you want.. just trying to make them see the reality of things. sorry if I burst their bubble but sometime this is needed to make people realize things and push them.

[Cap10 23]

LFSwicked said:

Cap10 said:

LFSwicked said:

I just want to say that once again, it's clear we're getting the best audio we've ever gotten in the F1 series. I'm so glad to see that there's a significant improvement to the audio this year! But...It's just a little surprising that this little indie game can do this but the official game can't: 

Imagine if we had these camera angles & these sounds in codies F1 games..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3n8cwPLha8

the only issue is the camera is too much focus on 1 car, this would not work well with the e-sports series and as an overall replay view. the camera would have to be zoom out to allow to see more of the cars in front & behind.

this would work much better. 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AccXByWHkMc
how come the audio team can't make the cars sound like this on the tv-cam replay?
this his how it should properly sound..

 

Which is why they should allow us to choose different replay cameras...Like most racing sims..This is also one thing that kinda annoys me in recent codies F1 games, they have nice multiple replay angles (I love the helicopter cam) but it's random...Why not let us choose which one to watch? 

that would be a good solution for tv cam replay indeed.
as much as I have to admit what they have done it quite realistic and sounds very close to what we hear on the broadcast however I find AC sounds much better.

cam#1 tv-feed( like the current one)
cam#2 spectator (so it sounds simillar to asseto corsa)
cam#3 Heli cam
 

[Arcadexx 0]

Just watched the replay again...I tried TV, headset, z906 speakers... honestly the replay sounds are weird...

I went and watch trackside videos of F1 testing...

The replay sounds seem like they don't follow the same quality of the onboard sounds..there is no impact, reverb, growl, track deepth and that loud raw punch..honestly the 2017 replay sounds better by watching the aarava video btw...I don't know if that is representative of the final product..

[Cap10 23]

Arcadexx said:

Just watched the replay again...I tried TV, headset, z906 speakers... honestly the replay sounds are weird...

I went and watch trackside videos of F1 testing...

The replay sounds seem like they don't follow the same quality of the onboard sounds..there is no impact, reverb, growl, track deepth and that loud raw punch..honestly the 2017 replay sounds better by watching the aarava video btw...I don't know if that is representative of the final product..

as issueskid and davidjgurney have explained the reason for this is the official broadcast from FOM does not capture the sounds from the cameras positions them self but rather with mics placed close to the cars at track level. this is why they sound differently.
as for the f1 testing videos sounds are captured directly from the camera position.

[Arcadexx 0]

And quite honestly, why can't that be used? Creates a better atmosphere, better sounding cars and detail, not the mosquito sound we hear from the replays. Even watching on the tele, the real deal, you can hear the track environment, the power of the cars, the distant and close level noise. 

[Koekenbakker28 74]

I’d like to state again that software development always involves limited time to spend. From my perception the replay camera is a piece of functionality that is not critical for the game, not used by a lot of people and therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if they only spend a fraction of time on it compared to other more important stuff (like cockpit/t-cam sounds).

So whilst it might be true that the sound is wrong like some of you point out, it could perfectly be that there simply wasn’t enough time to make it better. Or it could be a design desicion to post the mics near the track and don’t replicate the f1 broadcast irl.

It’s hard enough to work on a complicated project like this and to spend all year improving your stuff within the budget and within the given timeframe. And I know from experience it sucks when people talk shit about your baby... So please keep the above in mind when talking to devs :)

[Arcadexx 0]

Good insight, i can't speak for anyone but me but, nobody is trash talking the project, the game, in the end we all want the best possible game.

We are all F1 fans I assume, but for some of us, the audio is core in the same way gameplay is core.

You rarely see any reviewers talk about the audio in racing games, if so they will say something generic..about the soundtrack or how the sound it's decent enough etc

The people replying here are not the average player that wants something decent in audio, but good, the best it can be, we can all agree to that I think.

Therefore, the critique is not to chop down the work of passion the Devs put on, with the resources they have , it's about giving them feedback were to improve.

You talk about a minority, well, I'm happy to be one and happy enough the Devs took their time to reply to us.

That doesn't mean that there aren't fundamentals to improve upon, even having massively improved upon F1 2017.

[Flyby 0]

Since day 1 , CM always uses onboard samples and edits them for exterior sounds . 

[stephensmattlee 239]

I really hope one of the two remaining Developer Diary videos is on the making of the engine sounds for the new game. Would help give us all a better understanding of Codemasters techniques with capturing and applying the recordings to the games audio :)

[Worntoathread 865]

Cap10 said:

just watched this.. tv replay sounds starts @ 12:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeehFW8-xcU
is this how the final game will sound???
it was improved however why cars are almost silent when slowing down downshifting??
where is the bangs crackling pops the cars make when they downshifts?? 

I also feel there's something a bit off about the replay audio, or at least in this video. I'm not sure if that's representative of the final audio mix and quality but I'll try to explain what I hear.

@issueskid To start I think the overall character of the sound is much improved, I like the slightly more aggressive sound. What sounds 'off'' to me is that the cars are briefly very loud at peak volume, as they fly past, but before and immediately after passing, the volume fades/damps pretty much instantly. To my ears this makes it sound like it's a very short and repetitive flyby sample instead of a dynamic ongoing engine sound in the distance, especially when multiple cars are close to each other.

13:03 and 14:15 in the video above are some examples, the volume drops very soon after passing, when I think there should be a much louder echoing sound still going on. Same for when cars approach, at 14:47 it's pretty much still silent and the engines become audible only moments before they pass, making it sound like a short and repetitive sample again.

Apart from that I think it could use some of the detail the onboards already have, like others have pointed out; the turbo whistle and some of the pops and cracks, gear changes etc. Maybe it's all a case of the mix not being finalized, but I wanted to leave this feedback anyway. Most of the onboards really sound great this year, I hope you can make equally big steps for the exterior audio as well.

[LFSwicked 53]

I must admit I'm pretty disappointing by the Renault sounds, it's peculiar how the Ferrari sounds close to what you hear onboard but the Renault sounds nothing like it...Overall the game itself is looking very promising, can't wait to get my hands on it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COAcSnf3jLg

[LFSwicked 53]

Oh and I have a question if dev can give me a reply...A bit of a late request but here it is:

Will F1 2018 have additional audio options? Recent racing games like AC & Project CARS allow you to adjust multiple audio effects individually, like wind, tyre, surface, etc. 

I'd love to have these options, especially wind. Being able to turn that up like AC & Project cars would be nice. To me it enhances the sense of speed. 

[LilBrown47 6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W0an8ZF1B0t=35m20s

Just awesome to hear and listen that the newest footage of F1 2018 the game has got plenty of nice revelations for us to unravel it seems.

Sounds as if the bottoming out plank scraping audio sfx has fortunately been worked upon to make it more apparent and audible (could also be linked to the fact that the earlier footage did not have any crazy and realistic amounts of sparks), also the turbo whistle of the Mercedes engine (though still not perfect yet imho) and the tyre squeal (could also be linked to the fact that David, The Legend, Greco has been driving with no assists) have been improved as well.

Can't wait to hear the other cars now to listen how the audio fellas of Codemasters possibly have changed those compared to the previous build.

PS: Tbh i can't really comment on the TV Replay sound, as the footage wasn't very good to pick out all the valuable details at that particular section.

 

[LFSwicked 53]

Woah after playing the game myself, the sound (especially external replay) is miles better than previous games. Great job audio team! The only weak thing is the upshifts/downshifts while driving. If codies can sort out the transmission sounds then we're set! 

[BelgiumDude 461]

Operator1 said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

Worntoathread said:

Operator1 said:

I think anybody who does not have direct first-hand knowledge of the particulars in the license agreement between F1 & CodeMasters should not be so quick to play the "because licensing restrictions" card.

Unless an official F1 or CodeMasters representative publicly & specifically states that any specific feature cannot be implemented specifically due to a specific restriction in their license agreement, then I won't believe that licensing restrictions are an actual reason for anything.

If you do not have a copy of the license agreement to cite, then any claims about licensing restrictions are nothing but baseless speculation.

A bit presumptuous to immediately assume 'baseless speculation'. Normally I don't even bring it up, but for the last couple of years I've been part of the alpha/community testing process in Birmingham, to test & discuss the game with the developers in the studio. That included the audio team as well and I know what they told me about this subject, so don't be too quick to state that I wouldn't have first-hand knowledge.

Having said that, I would personally love to share what I learnt durning my time in the studio but since I've signed an NDA I'm not allowed to. (Which can often be quite frustrating in discussions like this one). Finally I'll say that initially, I was only suggesting the possibility that the license may well have something to do with it and now I've added some context, interpret that as you wish.

Anyone who has not seen & read the actual license agreement itself with their own eyes has no first-hand knowledge of this license agreement (that's what "first-hand knowledge" means).

It also doesn't carry any credibility to reference an unciteable source as a reason/justification for anything... "It might or might not be allowed in the licensing agreement, but we can't say one way or the other because the first rule about the license agreement is: don't talk about the license agreement."

That's taking it too far if you ask me. You're saying that when the actual audio designers of the very game we're discussing here tell me in person that they either are or aren't allowed to do something according to a license, it's not a credible source if I haven't read that same license/contract myself? If you're in court that would make some sense, but to me that sounds like some trust issues. 

I'd like to leave this discussion behind as I realized it probably wasn't a very good idea to bring my own experiences with the developer team into this discussion, and I think it's best for this topic if we purely focus on the game's actual audio quality from here on. I've requested @Faya to remove all posts related to the topics I mentioned for this reason. 

You might be correct. You might not. The only point I'm making is that the validity of licensing claims carries no credibility without citation of the license itself. Nobody can authoritatively refer to an invisible source as a plausible backing for any claims. It's not about producing courtroom-grade evidence, it's simply basic conversational convention - people aren't typically taken seriously when they say things like: "it is what it is because of something I once heard/read somebody say about a mysterious document that none of us have ever seen & can't cite & can't talk about."

Oh come on! Really? Have you become a flat earther? Why would you be more believable than @Worntoathread? People wearing tinfoil hats aren't typically taken serious as well. 

I have you seen trashing reviewers because they don't write what you think the game will be like. Well I have played the game now and never have you been more wrong than this time; If you play the game you get exactly what the reviewers write. There is much to hate but oh boy there is so much to love about this years game.

[Latvalla 2]

Hi, 

F1 2018 : I've noticed 2 things about the sound : 
- I can't hear Wind DRS sound from cockpit cam as it was in 2017 game. It was useful to know if DRS is well opened and I think it was a good idea.
- About radio communication, I can hear crunches and scratches when enginer is talking. May be it looks more real, so in this case, I have nothing to say about that point.    

[Riggy 1]

UP100 said:

I would guess Codemasters aren't allowed to rip the audio from broadcast. Those modders don't care about laws anyways.

Pretty ironic, when Codies stole a model for a car in last years game.

[Worntoathread 865]

@issueskid  I take back most of the criticism I had in my last post about the broadcast audio that was based on that video, I'm guessing a lot of it was down to video/audio compression or the mix not being final, but the actual game sounds much better :) There's a lot more noticeable ambient/distant sounds in the engine sounds now and the more aggressive character/slight distortion during flybys is a great improvement. Really enjoying the engine sounds in general; both onboard and broadcast.

Something that can still be improved I think are the big volume differences/drops in replays; sometimes the engines sound faint and far away for multiple shots instead of sounding more 'defined' and loud as the cars fly by. The trackside commentator sounds louder than the engines in those cases.

Another thing, and this one's pretty annoying, is Jeff's audio filter. It sounds to me like the distortion is overdone, and on top of that there's actual peak clipping regularly, which sounds unpleasant to say the least.  I hope for a more 'natural' filter that's less distorted or even an option to turn the filter off completely. Is that something that could be adjusted or otherwise added in the audio settings?

[issueskid 134]

Worntoathread said:

Something that can still be improved I think are the big volume differences/drops in replays, sometimes the engines sound faint and far away all the time for multiple shots, instead of sounding more 'defined' and loud as the cars fly by. The trackside commentator often sounds louder than the engines in those cases.

Thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying it so far. As for this first point, yes this is a known issue - sort of. There's a slight limitation we have right now, you'll find these shots you are talking about are probably from far away camera that are really zoomed into the action. So technically the audio is correct here, although it doesn't sound right ::smile: It's something we're aware of though and trying to address.

Worntoathread said:

Another thing, and this one's pretty annoying, is Jeff's audio filter. It sounds to me like the distortion is overdone, and on top of that there's actual peak clipping regularly, which sounds unpleasant to say the least.  I hope for a more 'natural' filter that's less distorted or even an option to turn the filter off completely. Is that something that could be adjusted or otherwise added in the audio settings?

I will look into this, again, this is another one of those decisions between trying to make the radio comms realistic and user friendly. In real life broadcast I often find the engineer really difficult to hear when FOM play the feed over TV. Our's is easier to hear because we're often conveying essential information. I can certainly take a look at this though and see if there's anything that we can work on.

[Worntoathread 865]

issueskid said:

Worntoathread said:

Another thing, and this one's pretty annoying, is Jeff's audio filter. It sounds to me like the distortion is overdone, and on top of that there's actual peak clipping regularly, which sounds unpleasant to say the least.  I hope for a more 'natural' filter that's less distorted or even an option to turn the filter off completely. Is that something that could be adjusted or otherwise added in the audio settings?

I will look into this, again, this is another one of those decisions between trying to make the radio comms realistic and user friendly. In real life broadcast I often find the engineer really difficult to hear when FOM play the feed over TV. Our's is easier to hear because we're often conveying essential information. I can certainly take a look at this though and see if there's anything that we can work on.

Thanks for the response, good to hear you'll look into it. To be honest the filter's bothered me in previous games as well, it sounds a bit like he's ran through an unpleasant distortion instead of just EQ, but the actual clipping peaks are specific to this year's game. I'd always prefer a bit more natural sound with more low frequencies, would make it sound a lot less harsh, but then of course maybe that's personal preference.

[stephensmattlee 239]

@issueskid

Really loving the upgraded engine sounds in this years game, such a huge step forward and can see (and hear) a lot of work has gone into getting them sounding as close to the real thing as possible :)

i have a question about the Mercedes engine sound. I’ve been playing F1 2018 for a few days now as Williams and wondered if the “chorus” effect that appears to be on the engine sound is meant to be quite as extreme and noticeable? (In cockpit cam that is)
I’ve watched a few onboards of the Williams this year and I can’t seem to hear as much of an obvious “chorus-y” sound.

I guess when the audio was captured by the audio team it can probably sound very different from what we hear from the onboard audio on tv.  
Be curious to hear how the audio team processed and mixed the audio of the engines for the new game and if what we hear in game is actually closer to how things might sound compared to the tv footage :)

Many thanks 

[TopAirspace 6]

@issueskid

Hello, for me in F1 2018 the tyre squeal volume is far to loud (and unrealistic) when burning out or launching off from the grid at the start of the race, or even locking a wheel when braking for that matter, as a matter of fact i really dislike that particular sound effect entirely.

Is it possible to tone it down a touch, or provide an individual sound adjustment slider so we can set our preferred volume accordingly? For me I'd probably run it at about 15% volume or potentially off completely lol.

  :)