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Tyre temperature on city circuits

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@FRACTURED
You'll get there. Last month I played with a wheel for the first time in years at my buddy's place. The only F1 game he has is F1 2015 though :D Would love to try F1 2018 with a wheel and see how different tyre management is compared to pad.

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Freddus said:
You can always ask them. But if you're only going to use 5% of the time and I'll use 0% of the time and someone else is only going to use it 2% of the time then what incentive have they got? Especially given that they did such a good job with the tyre simulation in the first place. 
That's true but then again some people may use it all the time. Tracks like Melbourne, Barcelona (obviously), Le Castellet or Suzuka are also hard on the front tyres. I can imagine a lot of people having problems there also, not just Monaco & Singapore.
And for some this issue is even big enough to skip those two races. So even if that only concerns two tracks it's still an issue that should at least be looked at. For wheel users it's a great feature though, no doubt. On any other track I really enjoy it as well. It's pretty satisfying when the temps go up to 105°C and then cool down again once you take it easy for a few laps.

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rfvgt said: 
I agree! I never said anything different.
But I just don't know why I have to justify myself for hoping for that option. I wouldn't even use it 95% of the time. I'm really really trying my best but it's just not working on those two tracks. And apparently it's the same thing for hundreds and possibly thousands of other players.
There's an option to reduce the AI difficulty, to reduce damage, to reduce penalties, to use flashbacks, there are driving aids. I don't hear any complaints about all of that. An option for reduced tyre temps would fit right into that category.

I'm a huge fan of games that let players customize it to their liking, at least offline. If you can't change that during online races, that's fine. As a pad racer you kind of expect to have slight disadvantages vs. players with wheels anyway.
But who cares how other players play their career mode? Just let people play the game how they wanna play it ✌?
Very fair points. I can imagine there are many casual pad players who are simply not capable and/or interested to get the hang of managing this, and for them there's no option to make it drivable. The way you explained it I have to agree the current situation is not much different from having no traction control available for example. In a game like this you can't force people to get better at something that's quite difficult to master for the casual player.

While many people including myself love the realism, (I think it's one of the best features) a 'tyre realism' option would probably be the best solution for everyone. There isn't a perfect middle ground if they're going to try and rebalance anything, the issue will just shift to the players that currently enjoy the physics, making it too easy for them if they change it. I think the difference between casual players and hardcore/simulation players is just too big to please everyone with one setting in this regard. Fingers crosses they won't 'dumb it down' but rather add an option to keep everybody happy.

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Absolutely don't want it dumbed down, in fact why not get the AI having that problem?
Because that would demand a lot more of the CPU, which would require compromises elsewhere such as in the visuals, frame rate, suspension modelling/frequency etc. 

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Yup for me I can't race over 95 with pad but still using medium TC on some circuits too which slows me down more. There is only so much a pad can do, played my friends wheel and the difference in clarity is amazing. I completely understand why people pay so much money for top of the range wheels and pedals! But on pad myself still until I get my own set its a bit of a add a little TC or just pit 1 more than the AI. At least an extra pit adds more of a challenge and if you feel the need to push 100% of the race rather than manage a good pace you'll probably enjoy the extra set of tyres too much to worry about loosing any places. I do this only for Monaco, so if I have a poor performance I can take it on the chin okay. Singapore I enjoy a lot so maybe its that but I can race hard well with only a little management to get me to the end.

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Up to Budapest in my career mode so haven't got to Singapore yet, but only track I struggled with tyres on was Monaco. Baku I had no issue with.

I think I was lap 5 at Monaco (50% race distance) when I completely burned out the rears - I was racing round with ERS on full mode desperately trying to keep up with cars I was falling back from. I wasn't looking after the tyres/car so I can understand why it happened but I was losing so much time. I think in future any races at Monaco I will have to drop the AI difficulty down sadly.

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Freddus said:
Absolutely don't want it dumbed down, in fact why not get the AI having that problem?
Because that would demand a lot more of the CPU, which would require compromises elsewhere such as in the visuals, frame rate, suspension modelling/frequency etc. 
Tyre temperatures are already active for the AI as well, they just seem pretty good at managing them. Checking their steering displays I noticed some of them actually do get slight overheating issues, I'm just not sure if it affects their pace at all. To make sure I guess you'd have to compare their lap times in the race director with their temps on the display (and take wear/ERS usage into account).

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My personal solution to this issue is that i just turn the AI down to 90/95 for Monaco/Singapore (I usually race 105)... But it doesnt really bother me all to much since I am not trying to race in a league or being competitive online in general.

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rfvgt said:
Freddus said:
there is nothing wrong with the tyre simulation. 
I agree! I never said anything different.
But I just don't know why I have to justify myself for hoping for that option. I wouldn't even use it 95% of the time. I'm really really trying my best but it's just not working on those two tracks. And apparently it's the same thing for hundreds and possibly thousands of other players.
There's an option to reduce the AI difficulty, to reduce damage, to reduce penalties, to use flashbacks, there are driving aids. I don't hear any complaints about all of that. An option for reduced tyre temps would fit right into that category.

I'm a huge fan of games that let players customize it to their liking, at least offline. If you can't change that during online races, that's fine. As a pad racer you kind of expect to have slight disadvantages vs. players with wheels anyway.
But who cares how other players play their career mode? Just let people play the game how they wanna play it ✌?
Completely agree that there is nothing wrong with the tire sim, people driving like it's 2017 are going to have problems on the pad, there are several ways to combat the tire wear this year and for me that makes for a better experience. That's just my opinion anyway, I'm sure a certain someone will mark my comment off-topic soon enough anyhow. 

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So I'm a user pad.
I read that many people say that playing with the pad can not play at high levels.
no more wrong because I play 110 without help.
I have many overheating problems in circuits like Munich singapore and hungary.
clearly it is a problem only for those who play with the pad.
it is useless to say to correct my driving style because I have already done it in circuits like Barcelona Germany and others.
it is not a bug but it is clearly a problem of gaming experience for those who use the pad because the game becomes unviable in circuits like Monaco and Singapore.
so Codemasters MUST do something about this problem because not everyone has a chance to buy a steering wheel
I do not accept having to lower my level of play for this problem because I like the new physics of the tires but as I said in the circuits as Monaco and Singapore for us that we use the pad is unmanageable

Sorry for my English

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just wondering,,,, the people complaining about using a pad with driving games,, would you jump on first person shooter forums and complain how hard it is to play the game with a wheel setup (if you had one)   what about playing VR optimised games in non VR??
There is nothing wrong with the 2018 tyre modelling,, yes, the game does favour wheel players but not in the way the game is coded,, in the way that wheels are smoother and have more range. ALL tracks are race-able on pad (ive tried). Adjust your driving style / setup.. Yes street circuits are harder,,,, duhhhhh,,, everyone has weak tracks, as has been said, there are many options are your disposal. If the tyre model was changed and i was racing at 110% on a wheel  where do i go if the change made it easier for me?? cant go up further. I can do the same times at Monaco on the pad as i can the wheel BUT i need to change wing/tyre pressure and ballast. Also if you are using  pad connected wireless, you are already at a disadvantage because of input lag,, ps4pro controller plugged in with get you zero input lag.  Adapt or be left behind, stop asking the world to change for you. 

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Freddus said:
rfvgt said:
@Freddus
I was just comparing 17 and 18 based on their overall speed. And not just race, in qualifying also. Unless the AI save tyres on their flying lap, it really is easier this year.

And I do look after my tyres a lot this year. I only push real hard in qualifying and during the qualifying programme in practice. Otherwise I don't move my analog stick fully to the side, I avoid curbs as much as possible and I make sure my car doesn't slide. I also set up my car mostly thinking about the front tyres. After the start of the race I usually just follow the cars in front, lift & coast before corners and take every apex as cleanly as possible. After five laps or so, when the field isn't as bunched up anymore, I slowly start to drive a bit faster, just like the AI. That works for a few laps and then they just drive away into the distance, while a Trulli Train is building behind me. And then it's downhill from there.

I just wish for an option to decrease the effect of overheating OR for tyres to heat up slower. At least offline, online can stay as it is.
Overheating already is decreased in the game compared to real life. Clearly you are not looking after your tyres, because if you were they wouldn't be overheating. 

The option to decrease tyre overheating is not necessary because you already have the option to decrease the AI. 

You cant crank the AI up to a level way beyond your diving ability and then expect the devs to give you the option drop this and increase that to make easier for you to win. Otherwise you might as well ask them to give the option to increase the amount of grip you car has to make it easy for you to win on 110AI. I really don't see point, because at the end of the day you will not get a trophy and one million dollars for winning on 104 AI instead of winning on 90 AI . 
The point is thow the game is not real life its an game caterd for all surposed to be any ways but from the sounds of it the have went more sim this time around which is good for an minority guessing the have done it for the e sports but its an game at the end of the day shoulf be able to play with pad or wheel with no disadvantage to the pad user or wheel if problem was other way round 

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it some guys in this thread would get money for writing complete rubbish they would be billionaires. Overheating tyres on narrow circuits like Monaco, Singapore and Hungary is not realistic at all. In real life they are even struggling to get the tyres working properly because the speed on these tracks are very low so they have no chance to warm them. In Austin or Barcelona I would understand if my tyres are overheating. But not in Monaco!

The tyre sim in the game is not realistic at all and it needs to be fixed

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rfvgt said: 
I agree! I never said anything different.
But I just don't know why I have to justify myself for hoping for that option. I wouldn't even use it 95% of the time. I'm really really trying my best but it's just not working on those two tracks. And apparently it's the same thing for hundreds and possibly thousands of other players.
There's an option to reduce the AI difficulty, to reduce damage, to reduce penalties, to use flashbacks, there are driving aids. I don't hear any complaints about all of that. An option for reduced tyre temps would fit right into that category.

I'm a huge fan of games that let players customize it to their liking, at least offline. If you can't change that during online races, that's fine. As a pad racer you kind of expect to have slight disadvantages vs. players with wheels anyway.
But who cares how other players play their career mode? Just let people play the game how they wanna play it ✌?
Very fair points. I can imagine there are many casual pad players who are simply not capable and/or interested to get the hang of managing this, and for them there's no option to make it drivable. The way you explained it I have to agree the current situation is not much different from having no traction control available for example. In a game like this you can't force people to get better at something that's quite difficult to master for the casual player.

While many people including myself love the realism, (I think it's one of the best features) a 'tyre realism' option would probably be the best solution for everyone. There isn't a perfect middle ground if they're going to try and rebalance anything, the issue will just shift to the players that currently enjoy the physics, making it too easy for them if they change it. I think the difference between casual players and hardcore/simulation players is just too big to please everyone with one setting in this regard. Fingers crosses they won't 'dumb it down' but rather add an option to keep everybody happy.
Why don’t they just reduce the AI difficulty if they’re  having problems with tyre temps?

The options are available, it’s just some people would rather CM change the mechanics to suit them rather than adapting to any change themselves....

Sad.

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So I'm a user pad.
I read that many people say that playing with the pad can not play at high levels.
no more wrong because I play 110 without help.
I have many overheating problems in circuits like Munich singapore and hungary.
clearly it is a problem only for those who play with the pad.
it is useless to say to correct my driving style because I have already done it in circuits like Barcelona Germany and others.
it is not a bug but it is clearly a problem of gaming experience for those who use the pad because the game becomes unviable in circuits like Monaco and Singapore.
so Codemasters MUST do something about this problem because not everyone has a chance to buy a steering wheel
I do not accept having to lower my level of play for this problem because I like the new physics of the tires but as I said in the circuits as Monaco and Singapore for us that we use the pad is unmanageable

Sorry for my English
So CM has to change the whole tyre temp mechanic in order for you not to reduce the AI you play at?

why don’t they just incorporate a ‘win’ button so you don’t even have to bother running the races?

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@SirDriftalots

if you do not understand what I say do not answer
I can also play at level 0 but my tires overheat the same
so the level has little to do with it
Then why not change it if it doesn’t matter?

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rfvgt said: 
I agree! I never said anything different.
But I just don't know why I have to justify myself for hoping for that option. I wouldn't even use it 95% of the time. I'm really really trying my best but it's just not working on those two tracks. And apparently it's the same thing for hundreds and possibly thousands of other players.
There's an option to reduce the AI difficulty, to reduce damage, to reduce penalties, to use flashbacks, there are driving aids. I don't hear any complaints about all of that. An option for reduced tyre temps would fit right into that category.

I'm a huge fan of games that let players customize it to their liking, at least offline. If you can't change that during online races, that's fine. As a pad racer you kind of expect to have slight disadvantages vs. players with wheels anyway.
But who cares how other players play their career mode? Just let people play the game how they wanna play it ✌?
Very fair points. I can imagine there are many casual pad players who are simply not capable and/or interested to get the hang of managing this, and for them there's no option to make it drivable. The way you explained it I have to agree the current situation is not much different from having no traction control available for example. In a game like this you can't force people to get better at something that's quite difficult to master for the casual player.

While many people including myself love the realism, (I think it's one of the best features) a 'tyre realism' option would probably be the best solution for everyone. There isn't a perfect middle ground if they're going to try and rebalance anything, the issue will just shift to the players that currently enjoy the physics, making it too easy for them if they change it. I think the difference between casual players and hardcore/simulation players is just too big to please everyone with one setting in this regard. Fingers crosses they won't 'dumb it down' but rather add an option to keep everybody happy.
Why don’t they just reduce the AI difficulty if they’re  having problems with tyre temps?

The options are available, it’s just some people would rather CM change the mechanics to suit them rather than adapting to any change themselves....

Sad.

It's more sad when you don't know what the problem is. Read Up:

Tyre temperature management is all well and good, drive to the tyres. The problem is, say I can set AI at 100, and take pole position in qualifying, yet if the race is 85 AI, you'll still having to lap slower than the AI to keep your tyres in their temperature range. You see the issue? Exacerbated by the fact you can't change difficulty between sessions. 

Ok, it's not necessarily tyre temps that are the problem, and it's not a bug (the word everyone uses when something doesn't suit them). It may well be an AI issue more than anything, but the fact is, with the best of intentions, CM have tried to implement a gameplay mechanic, and have executed it poorly, to the point of making the game unplayable in terms of immersion. Something needs fixing.

It's staggering on here how many people on both sides of the argument haven't got the faintest clue what they are talking about, or where the issue lies.

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As I've posted in one of the billion threads here on this topic, I just don't understand why this issues happens almost exclusively in Monaco and Singapore? Maybe someone can explain this to me. As far as I know real F1 drivers complained about having trouble keeping their tyres warm, especially the front tyres, right? That's the exact opposite of the problem most pad users are having. I would totally buy it if the rears keeps overheating, not the fronts. Is this because of the rough surface in MON & SIN or because the fronts can't cool down as the straights are too short? It's easy to overheat your front left in Barcelona and Silverstone, but there you can at least slow down a bit (about 0.5 to 1 second) and the tyres cool down again. In MON & SIN you can literally slow down by 5 seconds and it still doesn't help. Even if you steer as smoothly as possible with an analog stick and avoid the curbs. Adjusting the setup also only helps marginally. This is what I would love to have explained. Not "lower the difficulty" or "look after your tyres better".

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It's not just those tracks. Try a race at Barcelona.

It's more connected to the compounds in use. Hyper softs will need a lot of managing (hence issues in Monaco and Singapore), where as the Hards (in Barcelona) won't need so much managing.

The problem is, the AI don't have the same management to do.

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DaveDave12345 said:
It's not just those tracks. Try a race at Barcelona.

It's more connected to the compounds in use. Hyper softs will need a lot of managing (hence issues in Monaco and Singapore), where as the Hards (in Barcelona) won't need so much managing.

The problem is, the AI don't have the same management to do.

Barcelona, Paul Ricard, Silverstone, Suzuka.... Those circuits are tough but you can manage with some practice. I didn't even know about the new tyre temperature feature until about halfway into my first season. I was wondering why I lost some much time in Barcelona and Silverstone towards the end of my stints. By the second season I had adjusted my driving style a lot and drove a lot more smoothly, hence I haven't really had any problems there since, no matter which compound. Everytime my left front reaches 106° I take it easy for a bit and it goes down to about 102° which is really satisfying and immersive. But for some reason that's impossible in MON & SIN. Montreal also has Hypers and Ultras but I don't have any problems there, even though that track also consists of 90 degree corners, just like Singapore.

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Freddus said:
rfvgt said:
FRACTURED said:
rfvgt said er:
It's either lose 2 seconds per lap and try to manage your tyres from start onwards or drive normally at first and then lose about 3-5 seconds per lap after 5-8 laps.
That sounds exactly like f1 IRL.
Yes but as always these things don't apply to the AI. Just like they didn't have to deal with tyre a few years ago (and to a lesser extent still today), they don't have to deal with overheating tyres because of their ultra-smooth driving style. They can easily keep the pace, perhaps slow down a little bit because of tyre wear, while you give 120% to just keep with them and because of that you hurt your tyres even more. It feels unfair. That's the point. It's frustrating that the AI seemingly races with different rules once again.
You shouldn't be racing on 104% AI. AI over 100% is for exceptionally talented Lewis Hamiltonesque type drivers playing with a very good force feedback steering wheel and pedals. 

You have 4 choices here: 

1. Lower the AI 
2. Get much better on pad.
3 Get a ff steering wheel and pedals
4. Accept not being as competitive as before. 

Utter drivel

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