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VR support in Dirt Rally 2 ?


MongoJon [VR]

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EDDSkitz said:
MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
jones1876 said:
I don t care about excuses... If dirt rally didnt support wheels, how many would buy it?
No VR support means no buy.

I am dying for more content, but I already skipped Dirt 4, will do the same with Dirt Rally 2.0 if I have to!
exactly. wheels are expensive as ****. Ive seen wheel setups more expensive than a vr headset. the % of people who race with wheels must be equal or less than VR. Even less % for those with triple screens.  I dont buy it
Well, your feelings and the actual facts are different... get with reality. 

according to the steam hardware survey there are more vr headsets then wheels.
Yeah, sure there are...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1712946892833213377

about 0,75% own a vr headset, about 0.2% own a wheel. if you have other numbers show them to us. its easier to win arguments with numbers.

its not even so hard to believe. a racing wheel is a highly specific input device thats only used for one genre and type of games. tahts not something that many people own.



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MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
jones1876 said:
I don t care about excuses... If dirt rally didnt support wheels, how many would buy it?
No VR support means no buy.

I am dying for more content, but I already skipped Dirt 4, will do the same with Dirt Rally 2.0 if I have to!
exactly. wheels are expensive as ****. Ive seen wheel setups more expensive than a vr headset. the % of people who race with wheels must be equal or less than VR. Even less % for those with triple screens.  I dont buy it
Well, your feelings and the actual facts are different... get with reality. 

according to the steam hardware survey there are more vr headsets then wheels.
Yeah, sure there are...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1712946892833213377

about 0,75% own a vr headset, about 0.2% own a wheel. if you have other numbers show them to us. its easier to win arguments with numbers.

its not even so hard to believe. a racing wheel is a highly specific input device thats only used for one genre and type of games. tahts not something that many people own.



Steam isn't the only way to play a game... I GUARANTEE more racers use a wheel than those silly useless headsets. 
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then show me the numbers. i dont care what you guarentee if you dont back it up with numbers. you can write in caps all you want. doesnt make it more true. give us some numbers and statistics and we can talk. otherwise its just your opinion based on nothing. not worse more then any others.
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MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
jones1876 said:
I don t care about excuses... If dirt rally didnt support wheels, how many would buy it?
No VR support means no buy.

I am dying for more content, but I already skipped Dirt 4, will do the same with Dirt Rally 2.0 if I have to!
exactly. wheels are expensive as ****. Ive seen wheel setups more expensive than a vr headset. the % of people who race with wheels must be equal or less than VR. Even less % for those with triple screens.  I dont buy it
Well, your feelings and the actual facts are different... get with reality. 

according to the steam hardware survey there are more vr headsets then wheels.
Yeah, sure there are...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1712946892833213377

about 0,75% own a vr headset, about 0.2% own a wheel. if you have other numbers show them to us. its easier to win arguments with numbers.

its not even so hard to believe. a racing wheel is a highly specific input device thats only used for one genre and type of games. tahts not something that many people own.



It is a statistic among all users, not sim racers/ sim rally users.
BTW  DR and D4' handling models were made with gamepad users primary in mind, and it still made sense for Codies to pursue sim handling with DR2.0- that means steering wheel userbase is big enough to influence future series direction.
So, Codies know their statistics, if VR crowd was significant, they would include VR support from day one without even announcing any DLC's for future plans. Instead they say "OK, so we see some people in the community are vocal about the lack of VR support, so we are listening- does community want VR, or should we develop some content for everyone". 

Again- a niche VR for a fracture of userbase, or more content for everybody. 
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again. to suggest that its one of both is misleading. you can develop content and vr support together. every major developer of simracing titles is able to do that. supporting vr doesnt mean putting your entire dev team on to that. the majority of developers will still work other content.  even iracing was able to do that, pushing out new content nearly every season but also developing dx11 support parallel to that. and the iraicng dev team is small.


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MTOJay said:
again. to suggest that its one of both is misleading. you can develop content and vr support together.

You can start your own gamedev company and call it MTOJayVRornobuy, in the meantime Ross from Codemasters said more or less what I quoted (you can see an interview with him on YT- I think it was a VVV channel, or another one I cannot remember ATM). You have limited resources, you forward those resources to work on something. That thing can be a VR, or cars, tracks, whatever. You don't magically get people to work on two things at the same pace. They work on A, or B, or 50% A and 50% B. Period.

EDIT: mistake
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yeah i saw the interview. the same one where he told us that they are actively testing and developing for motion platforms.... :-D

since we all know there are millions of simracers with their motion platforms at home ;-)
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MTOJay said:
yeah i saw the interview. the same one where he told us that they are actively testing and developing for motion platforms.... :-D

since we all know there are millions of simracers with their motion platforms at home ;-)
If I'm not mistaken the motion platform is mainly used to record the pace notes.
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MTOJay said:
yeah i saw the interview. the same one where he told us that they are actively testing and developing for motion platforms.... :-D

since we all know there are millions of simracers with their motion platforms at home ;-)
That's your argument? OK. I think it changes nothing in the discussion and I still believe more content is better choice than VR. Fortunately Codies made the same conclusion so far. So you VR is really distant prospect especially since you said they already work on motion platforms (implementation of which is much easier than VR- you just need to extract G force data), so there is even less resources to spare for 1% of userbase.

In the meantime I hope we will get extra content while you try to convince 99% of Dirt userbase to back up your VR case. 
We don't want VR, we want more extra content.
For people who didn't see the interview:
FFW to 8m42s
https://youtu.be/YLHeJsUNB3A?t=8m42s

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you are aware that codemasters told us to voice our opinion right?

thats why we are vocal about it because they told us ;-) in my opinion a simracing title of 2019 should support single screens, triple screens and vr. thats only my opinion though, and i voice it because codemasters asked me to. at the end of the day nearly all of us are in the same boat, we want to simulate racing because a racing career is off the table. due to time and money constraints we are left with our virtual careers. we try our best to emulate that with games and fancy gear for our rig. from direct drive wheels over hydraulic pedals to analogue handbrakes. a vr headset is one  device that adds another layer of immersion on our journey. we are still early on in development, but already at a point where quite a few feel that its hard to get back to a 2d monitor. not everybody experiences it that way, but some people do.

maybe this is again a generation to early for codemasters. but at some point we will hopefully all be able to enjoy it like each individual wants.
until then i am going with dirt rally one and all the other sims that already support vr.  i personally think it is sad that codemasters doesnt think its viable yet. but if it is like that then so be it.

many people interpreted the "novr nobuy" comments as threats towards codemasters and the dr franchise. but thats simply not what it is. thats simply people who are at a point where they dont enjoy games on a screen anymore. that doesnt mean the game is going to be shit, it just means that some of us like the immersion so much that going back is a tradeoff we are not going to make. buying somethign you would not enjoy doesnt make sense.

i am not going to argue about this anymore. they told us to voice our opinion, thats why i am here.

have a nice day mate.
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I've said it before and I'll continue to say it... pro race teams with unlimited budgets don't use VR, and for good reason. 

It's not better, it's not even good... wheel and screen users severely outweigh VR, and so do motion rigs. Just because you don't own one, doesn't mean there aren't alot out there. 

I would suggest you check out the motion rig forums, because they ARE way bigger than the VR users. 
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EDDSkitz said:
MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
MTOJay said:
EDDSkitz said:
jones1876 said:
I don t care about excuses... If dirt rally didnt support wheels, how many would buy it?
No VR support means no buy.

I am dying for more content, but I already skipped Dirt 4, will do the same with Dirt Rally 2.0 if I have to!
exactly. wheels are expensive as ****. Ive seen wheel setups more expensive than a vr headset. the % of people who race with wheels must be equal or less than VR. Even less % for those with triple screens.  I dont buy it
Well, your feelings and the actual facts are different... get with reality. 

according to the steam hardware survey there are more vr headsets then wheels.
Yeah, sure there are...
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1712946892833213377

about 0,75% own a vr headset, about 0.2% own a wheel. if you have other numbers show them to us. its easier to win arguments with numbers.

its not even so hard to believe. a racing wheel is a highly specific input device thats only used for one genre and type of games. tahts not something that many people own.



Steam isn't the only way to play a game... I GUARANTEE more racers use a wheel than those silly useless headsets. 
Silly useless headsets lol, this is clearly someone who has never tried Dirt Rally in VR...
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EDDSkitz said:
I've said it before and I'll continue to say it... pro race teams with unlimited budgets don't use VR, and for good reason. 

It's not better, it's not even good... wheel and screen users severely outweigh VR, and so do motion rigs. Just because you don't own one, doesn't mean there aren't alot out there. 

I would suggest you check out the motion rig forums, because they ARE way bigger than the VR users. 

holy crap. its just sad how hard you ramble against vr. i dont know what it is with you but it feels like vr did something to you and now you want nobody to enjoy it.

to even suggest that motion is bigger then vr in simracing is so far from the truth its not even funny. yes of course there are big motion communities. xsimulator probably being the biggest of the bunch. there are great projects, there are great people. some of the diy stuff is awesome. i would lie if i would say i didnt think about adding motion to my rig at some point. thats why i went with 80/20 to begin with. and i designed my rig in a way that i can add a motion system down the line. maybe dbox  style, maybe simple 3 dof seatmover style, but the groundwork is layn out in the way i designed it.

i take from it you are no iracer?! while the amount of people using motion is climbing slowly but steadily, the amount of users using vr inside iraicng has skyrocketed the last 2 years. its an absolute lie to suggest that motion is bigger in simracing then vr - period. not even close. vr is taking simracing by storm - at least inside iracing.

its true that many or even most of the pro teams still use their simulators without vr. that will change at some point in the future though. maybe not in the next two or three years, but in the long run vr is obvisouly the better tech to simualte reallife cicumstances. its called virtual reality for a reason, when the tech is matured it translates perfectly fine to racing because it simulates you sitting in a car with all the visual cues you get from being in a real car. being depth, paralax form moving, sense of scale ... on top of that its not even comparable, pro teams use their rigs which are bigger then most our living rooms. they have multiprojectors, sometimes in3d. often times they sit in a real chassis of a car. to compare the level of these simulators with what we can achieve in our homes without completely blowing the budget and space constraints you have is not really fair is it? these things cost upwards of 100k while we are within a budget of anything from 200$ to maybe 5000$. its a different story and not a fair comparison.

at the end of the day we go with what is viable for us. and the 400$ vr headset is the biggest improvement i made to my rig. better then my dd and better then my heusinkvelds. its not there for everybody yet. but at some point in the future, 5-10 years down the line 80-90% of all simracers will be racing in vr exclusively. at least thats what i believe.

its true though that screen users still outweigh vr at the moment. thats not anyhing anybody is going to argue :-) but i think we are not that far away from a tipping point inside iracing regarding triple screen and vr users. single screen probably still dominates most setups due to its nature and the fact that every pc has at least 1 monitor. but triple screens are more expensive and require more space compared to vr, thats why many iracers these days that upgrade from single screen to the next step are going with vr. not everybody enjoys it in its current state, but the numbers are obviously climbing. i am part of a team of 7 people inside iracing and 4 of us are vr only. i personally got rid of my 3 screens, saving space and recouping some money. and for me its better. its a personal thing, but for me vr is more immersive and i am more consistent and i simply enjoy it more. and thats why i am doing it, for the joy of it.
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So motion will be supported well but not VR? This just gets better and better :smiley:  Got motion myself so no problems there.. but iam the only one i know that owns a motion platform vs atleast 5 VR drivers. So that just hits a nerve even more with the "_IF_ there is demand" stance.
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RWDsam said:

We don't want VR, we want more extra content.


"We" don't want it of "you" don't want it?

Guess it is first impirtant to know how much content is left out for VR implementation, isn't it?
And then it is not your or mine decision but cm.
"We" as in 99% of us who don't own VR. Monitor other topics to see that we are fed up with loud 1%.
VR implementation takes significant effort. Significant compared to what? I will let you guess. Whatever it is, it benefits 100% of us, not 1%.

looperi said:
So motion will be supported well but not VR? 
MTOJay Believes so. I don't (I just said it is easier to support than VR).
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SamRWD said:
RWDsam said:

We don't want VR, we want more extra content.


"We" don't want it of "you" don't want it?

Guess it is first impirtant to know how much content is left out for VR implementation, isn't it?
And then it is not your or mine decision but cm.
"We" as in 99% of us who don't own VR. Monitor other topics to see that we are fed up with loud 1%.
VR implementation takes significant effort. Significant compared to what? I will let you guess. Whatever it is, it benefits 100% of us, not 1%.

looperi said:
So motion will be supported well but not VR? 
MTOJay Believes so. I don't (I just said it is easier to support than VR).
"We as inn 99% of us who don't own VR".. Why do you speak for anyone else but yourself? I know a lot of folks without VR that couldn't care less if the game has VR or not, but none of them DON'T want it. They still can play on their pancake screens regardless..
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Another one. 

I don't care if you implement VR by yourself. In fact- do it, all the power to you.
I care if the content 100% of users could otherwise enjoy gets cut because resources go to expensive in implementation VR that fracture of community can appreciate. So it is just as valid to say that VR users want to get VR in DR as it is to say people who don't use VR don't want to get a game with less defined core mechanics/ less content. Because that is exactly what would happen if CM would greenlight VR support development.
What discussion on this board makes you think that people want Dirt Rally 1.5? Everyone here wants the best Dirt Rally 2.0 we can get. 
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What a load of BS. I don't know why you buy into this crap that it will be lesser content if they implement VR. Every other sim has loads of cars and tracks, so there is absolutely NO reason for Codemasters NOT to include it. DR2 will be a downgrade from DR1 otherwise.. Not often developers goes backwards but in this case they do.
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Vr is a pretty big part of every sim community I'm part of. Not everyone uses it, but it's pretty widely excepted.
In the two leagues I'm in, both have around 40 people, atleast 10-15 of the 40 in both use vr headsets. I only know a couple that use motion rigs in comparison. I know it's a small sample size but it's a common trend if you follow alot of sim communities. And I continually see more and more adding vr to their setups. Not everyone enjoys it, but it's still significant and growing. 
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SamRWD said:
eXerfit said:
What a load of BS. I don't know why you buy into this **** that it will be lesser content if they implement VR.
You call it BS, I call it facts https://youtu.be/YLHeJsUNB3A?t=8m42s 
I said it is how it works even before that interview got published, it is just a common sense. I am happy to give you a credible source so you don't call common sense BS.
Yeah, you call it facts because you buy into it. The tracks and cars are probably already modelled and finished by now so you will get your v2.0 pancake edition in time. But that does not mean that they can't make a VR patch for it later. They just have to say so and do it. To just rule it out and make people choose between content and VR is just plain stupid.
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eXerfit said:
SamRWD said:
eXerfit said:
What a load of BS. I don't know why you buy into this **** that it will be lesser content if they implement VR.
You call it BS, I call it facts https://youtu.be/YLHeJsUNB3A?t=8m42s 
I said it is how it works even before that interview got published, it is just a common sense. I am happy to give you a credible source so you don't call common sense BS.
Yeah, you call it facts because you buy into it. The tracks and cars are probably already modelled and finished by now so you will get your v2.0 pancake content in time. But that does not mean that they can't make a VR patch for it later. They just have to say so and do it. To just rule it out and make people choose between content and VR is just plain stupid.
I am sorry, I didn't realize you cannot reason, let me try to make it clear:
SCENARIO 1
You get two friends. Let's call them Tom and Ben. You ask Tom and Ben to make you as many pancakes as they can in 2 minutes. They make you two pancakes each in that time. You say "good job Tom and Ben! You made me two pancakes each! Let's call put those 4 pancakes (2 Ben made and 2 Tom made) into that box with "Dirt Rally 2.0" sticker on it".
Then you tell Tom and Ben that they have another 2 minutes, and ask them to again make you as many pancakes as they can. They make again two pancakes each again. You say "good job Tom and Ben! You made me two pancakes each! Let's call put those 4 pancakes (2 Ben made and 2 Tom made) into that four boxes with "DLC1", "DLC2", "DLC3" and "DLC4" stickers on it"
SCENARIO 2
You get two friends. Let's call them Tom and Ben. You ask Tom and Ben to make you as many pancakes as they can in 2 minutes. They make you two pancakes each in that time. You say "good job Tom and Ben! You made me two pancakes each! Let's call put those 4 pancakes (2 Ben made and 2 Tom made) into that box with "Dirt Rally 2.0" sticker on it".
Then you tell Tom and Ben that they have another 2 minutes, and ask them to again make you as many pancakes as they can. They make again two pancakes each again. You say "good job Tom and Ben! You made me two pancakes each! Let's call put those 2  pancakes Ben made into a box with a "VR DLC" sticker on it, and and 2 Tom made into that four boxes with "DLC1" and "DLC2" stickers on it".
QUESTION:
How many boxes didn't get pancakes put into them?
Now you understands, or not understands?

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