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Also bear in mind that a fair number of ex-Codemasters devs went off to form Playground Games (Forza Horizon) in 2010, so some of the initial developers of the Ego engine might have moved on then, leaving others to try to interpret it and move it forward.

Years ago (up until 2002) the F1 license had several strands that were licensed out to various companies (some via 3rd parties), so we had official games from Atari (Microprose), EA, Ubisoft, Eidos, Psygnosis, etc over that period. But having multiple takes on the same sport wasn't always ideal, as there's the potential none of them would sell in volume.

I assume the FIA (or more likely FOM) decided to have just one supplier so that the game companies could battle for the license and whoever won it would pay the most. However if the games sell badly and Codemasters dropped the license then there might not be any major companies who want it, given most have tried F1 games before. We could end up with mobile-only F1 games, with microtransactions; or games developed by companies like Milestone (MotoGP, previous WRC games) that lack the passion (or size of team) to do a complete job.

Codemasters haven't been the best for F1 yet, but let's give them 2015 to see how that fairs (next gen at last). In an ideal world a small but perfect team like Reiza Studios (Game Stock Car) or Kunos Simulazioni (Assetto Corsa), or even ISI again (rFactor) would get the license (or at least be sub-contracted to make the F1 games), then we'd get proper simulation quality. Heck, even get on the phone to Geoff Crammond and see if he fancies a shot at Grand Prix 5, that would get some press!

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Magic01 said:
Magic01 said:
Steve Hood is not the problem. Anybody blaming him is completely short sighted.

The problem is that Codemasters were never really cut out to do F1. The engine and technology is the main problem. You only have to see what happened when 2010 came out. The Ai could not even do consistent laps. The technology was never there in the engine to build good handling. Hence why despite the massive progress it still lacks good feel. That and the enormous amount of bugs in their technology I believe held them back a lot. Such that the team understandably became conservative and there was a lack of new ideas and features.
Well all this sounds funny to me. The ego engine did not remove a full race weekend did it now! It was the games designer! Not quite so short sighted after all I guess.

No you are being short sighted. If you actually look at why the race weekend was removed you will see why and it reinforces my point.

I don't know how much control Steve had at Codemasters. If he had full control I guess you might be right, but if he was just the games designer he did a good job with the tools he had.

His excuse was that no one was using it (his words to me personally) so he decided to shorten practice. How is this me being short sighted I wonder. Or have I missed something here. By the way. Just to be clear, my original post was of me hoping for a new developer, and that their games designer is leaving the franchise and not that he is THE problem. But I do question some of the design ideas that we have seen come and go over the years. New blood could be what this game needs. Who knows but we'll see I guess. 

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I know I have said this a few times, but I'm convinced it's to do with the tyre bug in 2011. The whole "people don't use it" was an excuse to cover up the fact they couldn't fix the bug. 

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I don't think even I would remove a feature that existed for the sake of it (it's more work to remove it than to leave it as is). As I've said previously - it came down to QA testing new elements versus having to cover the entire race weekend (which, when tested repeatedly as these things are, takes countless hours of time from multiple people). I didn't like it at the time, I don't like it now. But I'd still make the same choice because the new elements were more popular than all the practice sessions. I've also said the entire race weekend is an incredibly valid goal (we had it from the start) but that the elements intended to make it what it is in real life didn't materialise quick enough. If people ask sensibly I tend to explain. I know I have (repeatedly) for this particular thing that SpecOps has a real issue with. But here I notice history tends to get re-written to suit a particular argument ;-)

It's good to see people like VirtualIceMan and Magic01 applying some logic to their posts. It's disappointing to see people take aim at them for not jumping on the negative bandwagon. Good doggie, now have your biscuit? Really? And you wonder why I started to interact less. Lets just be a little more appreciative of peoples opinions. If you want to have a go and blame me for everything that's fine, but at least do it in a more civilised manner. Everyone posting looks to be intelligent enough to do so. You are being heard. Being civilised is not an admission that you think everything in the game and all decisions related to it are perfect. I know it's not perfect. 

I'll be out of here by next Friday (with a size 10 up me and the door hitting me on the way out etc etc). If I'd been asked to leave or worse still fired, I don't think I'd be posting. I'm more than happy to try and answer the odd burning question people might have as long as I'm not asked what's in the 2015 game. That's for the team to promote as and when they are ready. I'm incredibly sad about not sticking around to see that one out as I think it's likely to be the first step towards the game I wanted to make. The handling is sumblime. At last! Okay, I said I wouldn't talk about :)

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T4RG4 said:
Good doggie, now have your biscuit? Really? 

Sorry to know you got the sack Mr.Hood, but..., you have my sympathies.

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Like I said. Looking forward to where this franchise will go now you're out of it. Good luck with your future endeavours.

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I kind of left six months ago when I started to work in a different role outside of the F1 team. But then I was asked to go back into it and by that time I had my head turned by another opportunity. Such is life. Though like I've said, leaving F1 2015 is very difficult for me as it feels like they are on to something special and I was there from the very start when we were defining what it'd be. It'll probably be the best game yet and I'll look like an idiot for leaving! (not unusual, I know). As for the series becoming stale - Major step forwards in terms of core game features (e.g. Career) I'd have liked, sure. But it's hard to make a massive step forward with less than eight months development time per project. To bring about a huge step change, you need a run-up. You can't have a single dev team generate the yearly iteration and a huge new project simultaneously. You see this with many games. These projects are hugely complex and incredibly costly. What we want as gamers has to be balanced by the need to pay our way. This is where I expect 2015 to turn things around for the better.

As for the guy asking about QA testing - they find the issues, it's up to us the development team to fix them. What with the original engine and time pressures we didn't get to everything (no developer ever does). Something that did become apparent over the series were how problematic some of the issues were, just how deep they went. That's something they are actively trying to rectify with the upcoming game and I sincerely hope it works out as planned. I apologise if people have encountered issues. This isn't an excuse, just a brief explanation.

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So not once in the QA testing did anyone actually race with no assists and pad vs. wheel and go "Hey Boys, this is seriously screwed"?  

It's a huge backward step, but if you're not going to bother fixing it, our premium no assists league will have to go back to F1 2013 just to have a chance of survival. We're losing both driver types as well, pad guys who get bored and wheel guys not seeing any point.  

Surely, you can't expect us to fork out again for F1 2015 if we have no confidence that you'll fix anything that's wrong with that?

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T4RG4 said:
Something that did become apparent over the series were how problematic some of the issues were, just how deep they went. That's something they are actively trying to rectify with the upcoming game and I sincerely hope it works out as planned.
...there I was thinking you CM were making the new F1 game from the scratch in order to rectifying, precisely, this  persistent clusterf*** you guys farted when modifying an engine that insubstantial and lacking in the most basic department about physics and feedback, such as ego.

Evolution Studios developed annual brand new engines, one for each entry of their WRC series. All of them ended up being practically pristine when It came to finding bugs. Needless speak about their unbeatable graphical quality, combined with also excellent physics and 60FPS rate (on a PS2). Now tell me programming for PS2 wasn't that hard, or that you can't compare resources/teams/money, or that times have changed, or whatever. Make my day Steve.

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Just going away is present enough :). Ok that's not a fair comment as I did not buy it. You guys did and I feel your pain.

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Well, I don't think the success of the F1 series can be judged on 14 alone.

I loved 2010-2013, 2013 was the highlight for me with the classics.

There was/is certainly something not usual going on with 14. You could figure this out by the amount of time it took to announce it. There was something going on there. Who knows what. For me though its not as if it wasn't easy to judge what 14 was going to be like in advance.

Anyway, I think from 2010-2014 F1 probably sold over 5 million copies cross platform, so someone else probably liked it as well as me. I would be pretty pleased if I was in charge of a team that managed to make something that sold 5 million units.

Cheers Steve and good luck in the new job !

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Just going away is present enough :). Ok that's not a fair comment as I did not buy it. You guys did and I feel your pain.
Ladies and gentlemen, here we have what is called a person who jumps on a bandwaggon. Please @SpecOps1UK‌ you cant complain about the game if YOU havent played it, that is just sad. Who knows maybe if you play it you might actually like it, instead of listening to people who sook and whinge about the smallest little bug. 

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You are all looking in the wrong direction . . . check out who has the 65% then you will see that Codemasters has become a company under a heavy strain of having to produce a certain profit margin for its masters (and there is no "code" in who they are).

The demise of Codemasters is twofold; the above is one and the other is the delusion of illusion.
We see a graphically good game, we experience an enjoyable driving experience, but that is part of the delusion of illusion, there is no cohesion, no well managed nitty gritty, all the stuff which is supposed to create and support a well architected game is missing . . .and all the time the puppeteer is shouting for his return on outlay. Of course, the latter part is conjecture, but even an idiot can link the parts (history of actions), to get the picture.

The environment needed to create what we want and what the creative side of the company want is absent.

One way to succeed is the model shown by Ivory Tower. Two exceptionally good programmers formerly of Eden got fed up with the puppeteers called Atari so set out on their own. Secured a partnership with Ubisoft and Asobo studios to produce a game with all the elements of TDU and NFS, and produced a massive game for high end rigs with all the stuff they know we like  (one of which being no loading screens), and which Atari stifled in them because they put profits first, to the detriment of the quality of the product, the product being TDU, and The Crew is effectively TDU3.

I know I'm not too far off of the mark when I say that the majority of real talent jumped ship long ago for similar reasons as the two at Ivory Tower, puppeteers being too shortsighted.
True talent getting compromised doesn't work in people like programmers who worked their way through Uni knowing they had to be amongst the best to get the jobs they got. Sooner or later frustration seeps in and the rot starts, so they go looking to find the place which will appreciate their talent.

Whatever the internal politics the details don't matter to us, people walk, people get sacked, people get moved around, as an investor in companies that tells its own story no matter the industry. Once that is established we focus down on the detail, the type of industry, the inherent weak points in that industry . . . the status of the largest shareholder, the influence of the largest shareholder.

Codemasters' tale is a very easy one, very uncomplicated because of its commonality, the large shareholder can support it as there cannot be any "goodwill" value left to raise funds on, the employees will have to compromise everything to keep their jobs, the product will always be second or third class as there is no free money for talent throughout the whole string of the process of creating and publishing a game.

If anyone wants to point out just one individual, profit.

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BTW, I've been here since 2008 and have all the Dirt and Grid games + F1 2010.
I'm enjoyng Autosport and will continue to do so, but with a certain affection towards Codemasters I have seen the changes over the past 7 years and it is sad when a company has gone so badly wrong.

For me, and many of my friends, how a company could mismanage a bafta winning game (GRID) in the way CM did will always be etched into our minds. It isn't a mystery like some think, Grid was a fluke, the true path of Codemasters was the one taken in Dirt and F1 series. Their resistance to our requests for another Grid was simply because they knew they couldn't replicate a fluke . . . but Dirt 2 was/is an excellent game which got equal, if not more, play than grid.

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So @T4RG4‌ are you categorically saying that it was a design decision and nor because of the post patch 2011 bug? I understand testing can take a long time. 

The biggest challenge now is Codemasters have to rebuild a damaged reputation. Dirt was a really good base and it could of been built apon. It just seems to stagnate at times. 

Using Ego for F1 perhaps at the time looked like a good decision but it seem to restrict things at times. Underlying code causing fundamental flaws which cannot be fixed. 

A downward spiral as people may not buy equalling less money and then a question from the team on how much to invest. 

I dont have a next gen. I have a fairly ok PC but only a 20inch monitor and only 2 tiny speakers. Unlike my console setup. This could be the same for quite a few I.e. Not got an next gen. So many would feel that they missed out on a polished game. It's a shame but it will also cost Codies more in sales. 

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hola said:
vtidixon said:
ppl bang on about forza and gt but imo they are more arcade than F1! 
Lots of laughs

vtidixon said:
Btw steve leaving is the best news ive heard since the 2010 release! Imo that guy is the reason nothing has changed (infact features got worse) since the first game so I for one will say dont let the door hit you on the way out steve!   
Amen bro

Not sure if taking the piss :) or agree with me so ill explain a little as to why I belive that. Forza for me (and tiff neddell) is understeer city and most of the cars feel lazy and the cars handle nothing like the real cars ive driven (maybe not on the limit but quick enough) If im running wide and decide to give it a boot full to get the back end out I just understeer more? If ive got 700hp at the real wheels this is not what id expect to happen. Gt is alot better imo as the cars feel more connected to the road and they do mostly what you would expect when driving, the only problem I have with gt is I never felt like the car was going to bite me if I got it wrong or drove stupid. like I said Gt handling is good but just never had that drive to your limits talk with myself when playing lol! F1 2014 handling is simply more rewarding imo as every lap the car changes and you really have to change the way you drive as the race goes on (100% distance) whilst I am aware its not even close to a sim I think what F1 offers for pure racing a car is unmatched on consoles. The way the tyre temps affect the grip, fuel affects the way the car behaves, as the tyres go off you need to change the way you brake, corner and get on the power no other game offers this on consoles. The handling on the wheel this year is also very good imo as the car feels like it will bite me if I dont drive to my limits (only average mind) Whilst the kerbs and grass dont affect the cars like they should I think the way the car pushes on if going to quick or starts drifting if to early on the power is done well and a huge leap above the other F1 games, the back end coming out under braking if Im aggressive on my down shifts is also another little feature I like about this years game.  The ffb on my fanatec also feels better when jumping kerbs or I start to loose grip so overall F1 has the best racing experience for me out of any game currently on the console. Im not saying F1 2014 is the most realistic handling game (even the mclaren sim isnt 100% true to life so what chance has any game got) just feel it offers so much more when doing a long race. Just my opinion for what its worth :)

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Excellent rant Captain Jack and I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Like so many things, there seems to be a lifespan with a computer game and to me it looks like Codemasters are getting close to end of cycle now.

The "life" of a game usually starts with some creative, talented individuals coming up with a nice set of ideas but little money. With nothing to lose and a "nothing ventured, nothing gained" attitude, they go away and make something original and exciting, if also usually somewhat flawed. Uncreative and untalented people (the one's with money who nearly always think they are talented) like what they see and stick some pennies into it. When all goes well, it is a symbiotic relationship and the creative people make better and better stuff whilst the penny-pushers get their return. At some point in the cycle, something always goes wrong and the penny-pushers get nervous. They start scrutinising how their creative people are doing things and without any creative talent of their own they then become involved in the creative process itself. This is the start down the slippery slope. Eventually, they are controlling every penny and every thought and the whole thing falls to ruin. 

Sadly, you see the same story in all walks of life. Stupid individuals in Governments dictating to expert professionals in schools how they should be doing their jobs, music companies telling their artists they should all be wailing from the top of the mountain instead of singing the sweet melodies that we once used to enjoy. I have seen the same cycle of demise in pioneering companies that I have worked for as well - once the bosses start telling the clever people how to do their jobs, all is lost.

It is not necessarily the end though and is recoverable if the untalented ones suddenly wake up and realise what's happening and start the reversal of that process. The perfect example (in an opinion people may not share with me) is the GTA series. GTA IV, for me had the classic signs of the slippery slope. All the humour and silliness that went before it ditched for a nitty-gritty game that ultimately had you driving around performing monotonous and repetitive tasks. It was a company going into "Safe Mode". However, whilst the pundits applauded it's mediocrity, someone inside Take-Two/Rockstar saw the writing on the wall and gave us GTA V many years later, so there is hope, but Codies have got to start letting things happen again. 

'''...and they can start by fixing the stupid "pad traction thing", so that we might trust them to fix anything that's wrong with F1 2015 as well"!

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TheHemps said:
hola said:
TheHemps said:
He had years to get it right and all he does is blame the technology available [u]and the staff under him[/u]. Bit cowardly if you ask me.
It is a poor shepherd that blames his flock
Only a fool would presume those statements to be true.  Many a battle has been lost despite good leadership.  I have no idea of the inner workings of this project, but having read these forums over the years and having bought each game except for the last one, I feel for those working on it.  I do not know who is to blame for the issues and neither do you.
Yeah I do. The people making the game. And the people above them have to take responsibility.

Catch up. World's only worked like that for oooooohh, 500 years.
Oh my oh my. You know who is to blame do you?  It would seem you and many others blame one person, yet I seriously doubt you know the limitations of the project, such as budget, the engine, upper, middle and lower management, ownership etc. Yet here you are casting a blanket over all who are involved.  You said "he had years", yet I do not for a second believe you know what is truly involved, nor do I believe you know what restrictions he faced, whether it be game engine, budget, employees or his own ability.

Then you say "The people making the game. And the people above them have to take responsibility", so Steve fits where exactly, makng the game or above those making the game.  Bit odd, though not surprising since you seem to be all over the place on this one.  So how much exactly is Steve's fault since you KNOW?

Common sense has worked for more than 500 years...as you say, catch up.

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hola said:
T4RG4 said:
Something that did become apparent over the series were how problematic some of the issues were, just how deep they went. That's something they are actively trying to rectify with the upcoming game and I sincerely hope it works out as planned.
...there I was thinking you CM were making the new F1 game from the scratch in order to rectifying, precisely, this  persistent clusterf*** you guys farted when modifying an engine that insubstantial and lacking in the most basic department about physics and feedback, such as ego.

Evolution Studios developed annual brand new engines, one for each entry of their WRC series. All of them ended up being practically pristine when It came to finding bugs. Needless speak about their unbeatable graphical quality, combined with also excellent physics and 60FPS rate (on a PS2). Now tell me programming for PS2 wasn't that hard, or that you can't compare resources/teams/money, or that times have changed, or whatever. Make my day Steve.
Oh wow, here you are admitting they may well be using an engine that is not up to the task, hardly news that one.  Do you really expect him or any other employee with their job on the line to say otherwise, effectively bagging the franchise?  Yes some individuals do it, but you are a fool to expect it and he could be sued for doing it.  Once again you don't know his or their situation compared to Evolution Studios.  One can only facepalm so hard before it begins to hurt.

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TheHemps said:
hola said:
TheHemps said:
He had years to get it right and all he does is blame the technology available [u]and the staff under him[/u]. Bit cowardly if you ask me.
It is a poor shepherd that blames his flock
Only a fool would presume those statements to be true.  Many a battle has been lost despite good leadership.  I have no idea of the inner workings of this project, but having read these forums over the years and having bought each game except for the last one, I feel for those working on it.  I do not know who is to blame for the issues and neither do you.
Yeah I do. The people making the game. And the people above them have to take responsibility.

Catch up. World's only worked like that for oooooohh, 500 years.
Oh my oh my. You know who is to blame do you?  It would seem you and many others blame one person, yet I seriously doubt you know the limitations of the project, such as budget, the engine, upper, middle and lower management, ownership etc. Yet here you are casting a blanket over all who are involved.  You said "he had years", yet I do not for a second believe you know what is truly involved, nor do I believe you know what restrictions he faced, whether it be game engine, budget, employees or his own ability.

Then you say "The people making the game. And the people above them have to take responsibility", so Steve fits where exactly, makng the game or above those making the game.  Bit odd, though not surprising since you seem to be all over the place on this one.  So how much exactly is Steve's fault since you KNOW?

Common sense has worked for more than 500 years...as you say, catch up.
Edited. 

Realised that the original post I made went against my policy of not  arguing with  cretins on the internet.

So much fail in one post it nearly blew up my PC.

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