without all content of dirt 1 i don't buy dirt 2.0

[skylinegtr34 38]

dear codemasters, if you think to make a game without content of dirt 1 (cars and stages) and maybe add latew with dlc, you made a big error.

i pretend in dirt 2.0, all content of dirt 1, with more add on, and with dlc another content...

the rallycross don't interest anyone! all community want more rally with dirt rally 1 phisycs (or best)

why you don't have included montecarlo???!! or finland??!!! or galles!!??? this 3 rally it's the real spirit of rally, it's story, and a few of the best stage in the world... i buy dirt 1 on early access only for turini stage!!! and now you leave this rally?? same with delta, s4 and 037??

you need make like all other games... the next chapter have same content of first with more add on, don't substitute...

thanks!

[tbtstt 2,387]

skylinegtr34 said:

the rallycross don't interest anyone! 

Er, yeah, it does actually.

And you're making a lot of assumptions with the cars. You know they haven't confirmed the whole list, right? 

[RodgerDavies 933]

I certainly don't agree with everything you say, but I am surprised that the content is entirely new and agree with you about it being a shame not to have the great Wales, Monte and Finland stages alongside the new locations.

Finland, in particular, is an incredible piece of art but I never got to enjoy it in DR1 due to the strange airborne physics. So I disagree with you on that point; I'm certainly looking forward to the updated physics model. Hopefully some of these classics find a way into the game as DLC, although that does strike me as a strange way to do it I certainly won't complain at the end if we end up with both sets of locations in one package.

Regarding the Lancias, plenty of cars still to announce I believe and fingers crossed those will be amongst them. I'm really happy to replace the piecemeal '2010' class from DR1 with an in-depth R5 class for the new game though!

Regarding RX, it's not my cup of tea either but, per Steam stats, 11% of players played an online RX race in DR1, 35% of people completed an RX event in DR1 and 15% of people got DiRT 4's top RX Steam Achievement (a weird one about taking two Joker laps). So some folk clearly do play it.

[skylinegtr34 38]

the r5 it's not wrc, the fiesta wrc for exaple it's most powerful than r5, i prefer a lot the ex wrc cars, like focus 2007 and 2001 in primis and i20 and fiesta wrc, the r5 it's like f2 in formula 1

for the rx the % it's too small respect the rally, you go to view the post with poll of content dlc and ask me if the user prefer rally or rx...

for other stage thiss is not same problem, i don't understand why don't have the possibility to make 12 raly, with the old 6 and the 6 new,

the old 6 it's simply to copy and paste...the route it's the same and the work on graphics, im not a graphics design, but i don't think it's need to re-edit all...

[RodgerDavies 933]

skylinegtr34 said:

the r5 it's not wrc, the fiesta wrc for exaple it's most powerful than r5, i prefer a lot the ex wrc cars, like focus 2007 and 2001 in primis and i20 and fiesta wrc, the r5 it's like f2 in formula 1

for the rx the % it's too small respect the rally, you go to view the post with poll of content dlc and ask me if the user prefer rally or rx...

25 people answered that poll. Nearly a million people contributed to those Steam Achievement stats. Look, I have zero interest in RX but I certainly can't speak for everyone who plays the game.

Regarding R5s, yes, I see your point, but most racing games don't have an F1 licence either so have to deal with the same issue. Project Cars, Raceroom etc all have the same issue. Again, it's personal, but I'm happy they have taken the approach they have to provide an in depth historic and modern car roster. 

[Oscar97 25]

They most likely can't port stages from DR 1 because those stages are 1:1 reproductions of real stages with the same name, and DR 2 stages aren't like that.

As for rallycross, that statement is just stupid.

[Rallycameraman 241]

Oh just f**k off. 

Can you imagine if Codemasters announced DR2 and then said it was exactly the same as DR1?! 

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

Rallycameraman said:

Oh just **** off. 

Can you imagine if Codemasters announced DR2 and then said it was exactly the same as DR1?! 

Mate you didnt understand what @skylinegtr34 want is apart from new DR2.0 stages to also get DR1 stages ported, which I see it 100% perfect, I never saw a driver complain about doing Ouninpohja or Col de Turini every year, classics are classics

[afahoy 190]

what @skylinegtr34 want is apart from new DR2.0 stages to also get DR1 stages ported, which I see it 100% perfect

Apart from the additional cost in money and development time.

And no, don’t say something like “it’ll be easy, the work is basically done”; you don’t know that. The old stages might require a ton of work to update to modern standards – new textures, more geometry detail, better lighting, surface deformation, and probably a whole bunch of other things I’m not thinking of (because I’m not working in the game).

If something isn’t in the game, I can guarantee you the decision was made with far more information available to Codemasters than to any of us.

[Rallycameraman 241]

I’ve got 700-800 hours in DiRT Rally. I really don’t want to play the same stages again that I know like the back of my hand, just because we have some new cars and better physics. 

[RodgerDavies 933]

skylinegtr34 said:

the old 6 it's simply to copy and paste...the route it's the same and the work on graphics, im not a graphics design, but i don't think it's need to re-edit all...

I didn't see this bit, but loving the line "I'm not a graphic designer, but"...

I'm sure some elements like the base mesh and some textures can be carried across, but look at what we've got in DR2 compared to the first:
- new weather conditions (e.g. no rain but wet)
- new trees (see Poland coverage from.last stream)
- new spectator models (see the Australia clip from the 'through ages' trailer - they have weather-dependent clothing)
- road deformation! (see Argentina clip from end of the long live stream)
- soft verges (e.g. Wales and Monte Carlo's rock-like banks would need changing)
- crest angles (e.g. I'm guessing Finland and Sweden were probably modelled with the physics at the time in mind)
- driving to marshals (e.g. additional modelling required at the end of each direction)

And that's just graphics; no doubt the deformation effects and the changes to AI would need serious work too. It sounds like Sweden may come with future DLC and I hope other DR1 locations do too, but I certainly don't think they're easy to port.

[RodgerDavies 933]

Rallycameraman said:

I’ve got 700-800 hours in DiRT Rally. I really don’t want to play the same stages again that I know like the back of my hand, just because we have some new cars and better physics. 

You do have to admit, you're not the average user there though. Even amongst the niche that is this forum's users, you're a bit of an extreme case. Personally, I never really enjoyed the floaty Finnish stages in DR1, I'd love to see them in DR2 to appreciate the art with immersive physics.

Hopefully there's a bit of a mix though, just fingers crossed there isn't 2/3 of the new location 'spots' reserved for RX tracks in the planned packs.

[KingOfCoins 286]

While I would like to have the old DR locations in 2.0 there is a big difference between

"I would like to see the old DR locations in the game"

and

"2.0 must have the DR locations included or I'm not buying"

I'm more in the former rather than the latter

[Rallycameraman 241]

Wanting the exact same stages in DR1 because they were good, is exactly the same as asking Rockstar to use the same map in GTA6 because it was good. 

I don’t understand this love of wanting rehashed content. New game = new content. 

[RodgerDavies 933]

Rallycameraman said:

Wanting the exact same stages in DR1 because they were good, is exactly the same as asking Rockstar to use the same map in GTA6 because it was good. 

I don’t understand this love of wanting rehashed content. New game = new content. 

If we're going with pointless metaphors, I'd suggest it's more like Project CARS 2 not including any of the circuits from Project CARS 1 or GT Sport not including tracks that were in its previous iteration (GT7?).

Reality is that this scenario is somewhere in between; rallying is about unknown and using pacenotes, but also has iconic venues that are used year after year. Not just in the WRC either, competitors in the Belgian championship will know the stages from Spa, drivers in Czech Republic will know Semetin etc. The stages they created for DR1 were amazing, unlike any seen before in a rally game, so it's no wonder some would like these to be expanded upon and used in conjunction with the other improvements (don't think I'm endorsing the OP's manners/style there).

The point is that Codemasters needs to find a way of getting more than ~120km into its rally titles, because whilst it does you will just remember it. DLC can help this, so the plan for 'seasons' is a great step, but so can building upon content that they've previously created and poured hundreds of hours into, rather than discarding it each time.

[tbtstt 2,387]

RodgerDavies said:

If we're going with pointless metaphors, I'd suggest it's more like Project CARS 2 not including any of the circuits from Project CARS 1 or GT Sport not including tracks that were in its previous iteration (GT7?).

GT6 was the previous one! :smiley:

I can see validity in both arguments here: I know some of the hardcore players have absolutely hammered the D1 stages (and are sick of them), but I can still see the appeal in wanting to play them again with improved physics and different cars... though not before I have played some new stages.

If it was a case of simply porting the old stages into the new game then yes, I think there would be a greater expectation for them to be there, but with the improvements that have been made I really don't think it's that simple. And if they had allocated more resources to porting the old stages in then we'd have less new locations and other improvements (and I imagine the forum would be awash would people critiquing CM for just rehashing D1).

If it is possible for those locations to be revamped and appear as DLC further down the road then I'm all for it. But this is a new game and I would prefer to see a lot of other things first. 

Oh and I accept I am likely part of a niche audience, but for me the rallycross is a massive part of the appeal of DR, D4 and now DR2.0. I have been waiting a lot of years for an accurate depiction of rallycross in a game so to make a sweeping statement that rallycross "doesn't interest anyone" is pretty galling. 

[Julo264 1]

I think a solution that would satisfy both sides, would be: having DR location, but with new stages or at least different routes (f.e having Brening, or Gartheniong instead of Hafren for Wales, or different Ouninpohja configuration for Finland)

[RodgerDavies 933]

Julo264 said:

I think a solution that would satisfy both sides, would be: having DR location, but with new stages or at least different routes (f.e having Brening, or Gartheniong instead of Hafren for Wales, or different Ouninpohja configuration for Finland)

At the point of doing this though, it makes little difference between making a new Finnish stage and a stage in a new country (apart from some reuseable assets). The 'debate' is basically whether it's better to have 2x locations from DR1 or 1x completely new location.

To be honest, I'm hoping long-term we end up with 10-12 locations (countries) and for these to be expanded (in the next title down the line) with new stages added to the 'old' ones. But at this point, a call has been made for the base game and the first couple of DLCs and those plans are set in stone, so let's roll with it, support it and kick off the journey here! Hopefully we can keep this hype train going for a few years yet.

[RodgerDavies 933]

tbtstt said:

RodgerDavies said:

If we're going with pointless metaphors, I'd suggest it's more like Project CARS 2 not including any of the circuits from Project CARS 1 or GT Sport not including tracks that were in its previous iteration (GT7?).

If it was a case of simply porting the old stages into the new game then yes, I think there would be a greater expectation for them to be there, but with the improvements that have been made I really don't think it's that simple. And if they had allocated more resources to porting the old stages in then we'd have less new locations and other improvements (and I imagine the forum would be awash would people critiquing CM for just rehashing D1).

If it is possible for those locations to be revamped and appear as DLC further down the road then I'm all for it. But this is a new game and I would prefer to see a lot of other things first. 

Great post and sums it up better than I could. As mentioned above, I'm not disappointed, just surprised they've done it this way rather than the other way around, as I don't think people would have complained at, say 9 locations (6 upgraded DR1 + 3 new ones in the base game and 3 new ones coming in DLC). But, as mentioned above, Codemasters pay people with access to more info than I to make those decisions, so I've not much more to say until we know what's in the first DLC (should know in < 1 month now :P).

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

RodgerDavies said:

I don't think people would have complained at, say 9 locations (6 upgraded DR1 + 3 new ones in the base game and 3 new ones coming in DLC).

Do you not read the forums Rodger? People will always complain.

If they were to release what is basically D:R1.5 (6 old, 3 new) this forum would melt down with the sheer number of complaints about Codies ripping everybody off with a full price, reskinned D:R.

If they were to flip the numers (6 new, 3old) people will complain that 1/3 of all the stages are already in the older game.

If they release with all new tracks and the DR tracks as DLC people will complain that Codies are charging them twice for the same content.

[bogani 756]

SkiddyMcCrash said:

RodgerDavies said:

I don't think people would have complained at, say 9 locations (6 upgraded DR1 + 3 new ones in the base game and 3 new ones coming in DLC).

Do you not read the forums Rodger? People will always complain.

If they were to release what is basically D:R1.5 (6 old, 3 new) this forum would melt down with the sheer number of complaints about Codies ripping everybody off with a full price, reskinned D:R.

If they were to flip the numers (6 new, 3old) people will complain that 1/3 of all the stages are already in the older game.

If they release with all new tracks and the DR tracks as DLC people will complain that Codies are charging them twice for the same content.

Indeed. As a developer you simply can't win. Developers are always looking to rip you off, they are never honest and if something is not what you expect or to your liking its just a matter of lazyness. 

I'm not a game designer but hey, how hard can it be?

Happy New Year folks  B)

[RodgerDavies 933]

@SkiddyMcCrash
Genuine LOL; of course you're correct - people love to complain these days.

I still feel if they'd gone for the "1.5" approach you mention it wouldn't have caused that many complaints - after all, it's what other motorsport sims out there do; improve and expand content, rather than replace and there'd be plenty of 'new' - compared to remastering content as DLC, but as I say, that's just my gut feel - the decisions have been taken and I'll be happy either way if rally stages keep on coming! Looking forward to hearing more about DLC plans.

[Guegangster 0]

I am pretty sure they could find a way to re-use the assets. But it takes time and they have other priorities...
So they will bring the old cars and tracks from DR to DR 2.0 as a dlc.

It would be crazy to make a rallye game and leave out some of the most iconic cars (205 T16 Evo2) and tracks (Finland, Whales, Greece, Monte Carlo...)
It s like making an F1 game and leave out Spa, Silverstone and Monaco.

So you can pay full price to have early access, or be patient and wait for full game. And hope the sales don't tank and the game won't be shelved.

Since I won't be buying day one, I am not bothered. I'll wait for the complete game with VR support before buying so there is no hurry.
If the game fails, then that's sad, but I am not paying full price for a game I won't be playing because it doesn't support my way of playing (VR), so I can understand people complaining about lacking tracks and cars when the game comes out

[cjl9 12]

Whales, whales, bloody great fish that live in the sea.

[Ferranis 54]

Why are a lot of people hellbend on letting other people know that they are not doing something?

Or do they think that the developer now go: Man, this random guy from the internet is right, why have we not thought about this!