Dirt 4 is Better than Dirt Rally in Every Way

[Guest]

Yes that's right. So I am now over a week into Dirt 4, and I can not believe the negative comments all over the place about this absolute glittering gem. Forgive me for making a new thread but this is about street justice. Dirt Rally was great in its day, but this thing is a whole league ahead. DR 1 felt simultaneously floaty and clunky, whereas this feel planted, solid, precise. I've usually disliked snow stages in rally games, but now they're actually a lot of fun, with snowbanks giving a pleasingly real amount of resistance. Mind you, like every snow stage ever, it still feels a bit like you're in a missing scene from 'The Shining' where you're the wife character having found a car and you're high-tailing it away from the hotel, with Jack in hot pursuit. But you know what I mean.

I freaking love this game. Finally, FINALLY a game that has beaten RBR for the feeling of actually 'driving'. But this time it's so much better and there's no ridiculous sliding all over the place. Yes you still slide, but it feels authentic. To be honest the handling feels so good, I wonder how it will be improved. The graphics are freaking incredible, the vehicles, lighting and detail is constantly making my jaw wobble with involuntary joy. Every interaction with every object, like fences, posts, etc, shows physics and effects that are simply perfect.

Procedural stages are a freaking amazing leap forward. This is the Daggerfall of rally gaming, without the bugs and cat-people. Sure it's not constantly novel scenery, but what did you expect? Have an imagination and the procedural stages have added an element that is priceless. 'A revelation' as Paul Coleman correctly said.

All of you who have skipped Dirt 4 - you fools. YOU FOOLS MWAHAHAHA

OK now shoot me down

[UP100 1,151]

Don't worry, you'll probably get murdered for having a different opinion. Only thing what I'll say is that DIRT 4 definitely did not deserve the 'Mixed' rating.

[RodgerDavies 933]

Interesting take.

As mentioned in the other thread, I found the modern 4WD and FWD handling to be a step up, and at least it fixed the weightlessness issue that ruined parts of DiRT Rally for me, but the RWD seemed to fall victim to this. Braking seemed improved, but could go further, especially when wet and slippery. Your mention of fences, posts etc reminds me that one thing DiRT 4 was missing was penalties for colliding with stageside objects. Nothing seemed to have any weight to it and solid fence posts just crumbled as the car hit them, whereas they could be devastating in DR.

Graphics-wise, I would give it an even rating. They did a great job with the stage generator in hiding the 'joins' but I felt like the lighting was more 'for show' than in DR1. DR2's reminds me more of D4's so far though, and I accept that's more personal preference. Hoping they can tone down the insanely orange sunsets a bit though!

As I said, my main issues with DiRT 4 are RWD handling, the career mode, the lack of challenge in the AI and, above all, the stage generator. None of those made it a bad game, but they combined to make it a very boring one IMO. How are you finding the stage builder? A week in with the game and I remember being really frustrated with it already.

[Guest]

RodgerDavies said:

Your mention of fences, posts etc reminds me that one thing DiRT 4 was missing was penalties for colliding with stageside objects. Nothing seemed to have any weight to it and solid fence posts just crumbled as the car hit them, whereas they could be devastating in DR.

I must respectfully disagree on this. Wire fences and fence posts are outstanding in their interaction with the car. They show exactly the resistance and behaviours one would expect from such objects in real life. I honestly have not had a single interaction with a trackside object that did not feel utterly 'real'.

I'm loving the stage generator!! It does exactly what it says, simply and quickly. I've encountered stages that are twisty, turny, nasty, tricky, soaring, invigorating and beautiful. Australia is especially wonderful to me. For the first game with this tech, Dirt 4 should have won an innovation award, given how well implemented it is. I sincerely hope there is a Dirt 5 which expands on this procedural technology.

I see what you mean with the graphics, they seem more saturated and ever so slightly more cartoony than DR1, but this varies with time of day. I do find the graphics and effects overall to be a significant improvement over DR1.

[RallyDriven 398]

I don’t fully agree with you, but I’ve always said that there’s parts of dirt 4 that felt very good. When you’re flat out in a 4WD and go for a fast corner you can really feel the car bite down into the surface. Also going through dips you feel the car push down from the g force. Also under braking the cars tend to get unbalanced easier, and are generally harder to stop (although still don’t take long enough to stop in my opinion)

 However the cars behave slightly strange whilst sliding, they seem to pivot strangely from the middle and you can’t control slides properly. RWD also feels very odd. 

[bogani 756]

There are lots of good things about D4. High speed grip and stability, braking, aero are all improvements over DR.
The thing that absolutely kills it for me is low speed grip, the rear end particularly. When it starts to give you that nice slide you want through a low/mid speed corner the tires instantly screams "NO" and violently latches on to the road again without giving you that nice progressive arch you expect, sending the front end towards the outside of the corner. Everywhere it feels like your rear end hits a deep rut moving your front wheels out of line. It all just becomes extremely frustrating to drive. 
RWD's and the Lancer Evo are the cars that comes to mind the most. 

R5's feel okay, but completely lifeless and tame compared to our prototype of DR2. 

The stage generator is impressive for a month tops, after that every stage feels the same even though every stage is "unique". 

[Rallystu2 715]

For me dirt rally 2 is shaping up to be awesome, almost as perfect as the 'Bros:after the screaming stops documentary'.

I'm just hoping @christinaMc is allowed to give us some serious facts this week or soon at least.

[kheiro 5]

Must respect dirt rally and stop bam-bing here.

[carpa 303]

Jake Cushing said:

Yes that's right. So I am now over a week into Dirt 4, and I can not believe the negative comments all over the place about this absolute glittering gem. Forgive me for making a new thread but this is about street justice. Dirt Rally was great in its day, but this thing is a whole league ahead. DR 1 felt simultaneously floaty and clunky, whereas this feel planted, solid, precise. I've usually disliked snow stages in rally games, but now they're actually a lot of fun, with snowbanks giving a pleasingly real amount of resistance. Mind you, like every snow stage ever, it still feels a bit like you're in a missing scene from 'The Shining' where you're the wife character having found a car and you're high-tailing it away from the hotel, with Jack in hot pursuit. But you know what I mean.

I freaking love this game. Finally, FINALLY a game that has beaten RBR for the feeling of actually 'driving'. But this time it's so much better and there's no ridiculous sliding all over the place. Yes you still slide, but it feels authentic. To be honest the handling feels so good, I wonder how it will be improved. The graphics are freaking incredible, the vehicles, lighting and detail is constantly making my jaw wobble with involuntary joy. Every interaction with every object, like fences, posts, etc, shows physics and effects that are simply perfect.

Procedural stages are a freaking amazing leap forward. This is the Daggerfall of rally gaming, without the bugs and cat-people. Sure it's not constantly novel scenery, but what did you expect? Have an imagination and the procedural stages have added an element that is priceless. 'A revelation' as Paul Coleman correctly said.

All of you who have skipped Dirt 4 - you fools. YOU FOOLS MWAHAHAHA

OK now shoot me down

Arriving here to say this is the biggest display of bravery since Marcus Atilius Regulus. I respectfully disagree on some parts of your post but well done, you came here knowing full well this could cost your life :D

[Porkhammer 78]

I'm one of those that also prefer Dirt 4 over DR in most aspects. People that did not understand the improvements just moaned "arcade" instead, which is kinda funny I guess. They prefer the weightless cars of DR that flew to Jupiter at the sight of a bump in the road. Very realistic, wow.

I'd still be playing D4 if only they had fixed the overly grippy rear of some of the cars, and done something about the bad tarmac handling.

Sweden is ****ing sh1t though. I can't believe they went from DR's Sweden to this abomination. Way too forgiving and un-sweden in general.

[gk9147 220]

for dirt rally
-good ambiance very serious 
- beautiful rally  stage for all country   ( but repetitive )
- FFB is better than dirt 4 ( tarmac , snow , gravel  , need more slidinding in snow parts  monte-carlo )
- hill climb ( is not my favorite disciplines but is in dirt rally with pikes peak and is very good  )
for dirt 4 
- generated tracks ( your stage ) is amazing for me just need improve and adding new turn 
- funny ambiance ( with sun , good song ...)  remember dirt 1, dirt 2, dirt3
- weather  ( in all country you have different weather  with rain , sun , sky , start in morning , afternoon , night  you have  many choice ( you have more choice than dirt rally )) 
-  crosskart  ( difficult but very  funny when   you  find good car setup )

for me only i watch only problem is IA in solo mode  in dirt rally and dirt 4   

[dgeesi0 305]

RWD and YOURSTAGE killed Dirt 4 for me. some of it i really enjoyed though.

Dirt rally the lightness of cars and tarmac wernt great either.

[RodgerDavies 933]

The tech behind the stage generator is excellent, but it doesn't seem to have a fraction of the tiles it needs to work nicely. When you're passing the same corner (and sequence of bends) for the third time in a single stage, it's so immersion breaking it's the main standout thing for me. The podcast interview with Paul recently shed some light on that, and made it sound like they had to cut their losses on it.

I hope the idea isn't dead, because DR and DR2 will have issues with the limited number of kilometres, despite them being excellently modelled (DLC is a great start, but Argentina looks like it will have ~17km in total for example). However, the execution of Your Stage (and how much it was hyped up) is what is making want Codemasters to be more upfront in their communications with this title. So far, that doesn't appear to be the case.


For DiRT Rally:
- RWD physics
- Amazing stages and curated pacenotes
- Better career mode and championship structure IMO
- Menu and ambience (better before v1.0)
- Much better AI (unique challenge in rally games)
- Tarmac physics (not since the Finland update)

For DiRT 4:
- Upgraded 4WD and FWD physics
- Cars have weight!
- Choice of co-drivers
- R5 and R2 classes

[Rallystu2 715]

I also disagree that Sweden needed more sliding in DR. With studded tyres Sweden's stages offer almost as much grip as gravel. Hence the high speeds.


Sorry realise you were on about snowy parts of monte

[gk9147 220]

dgeesi0 clearly no because in rally you listen the co-driver ( ok the turn is same but he have not same place and you is forced to listen the  co-driver , especially in the fog and in view cokpit (  not dashboard views and change mode on your wheel too ) try and after said me is easy to watch the next  turn .

[Rallystu2 715]

gk9147 said:

dgeesi0 clearly no because in rally you listen the co-driver ( ok the turn is same but he have not same place and you is forced to listen the  co-driver , especially in the fog and in view cokpit (  not dashboard views and change mode on your wheel too ) try and after said me is easy to watch the next  turn .

I felt the co driver was poo in d4. So many ultra late notes. Like a 1 right being issued as I crest a hill and immediately hit the corner. Maybe has something to do with procedural stages lacking pace note 'situational context'

[Porkhammer 78]

misread edit lel                                             

[bogani 756]

Rallystu2 said:

gk9147 said:

dgeesi0 clearly no because in rally you listen the co-driver ( ok the turn is same but he have not same place and you is forced to listen the  co-driver , especially in the fog and in view cokpit (  not dashboard views and change mode on your wheel too ) try and after said me is easy to watch the next  turn .

I felt the co driver was poo in d4. So many ultra late notes. Like a 1 right being issued as I crest a hill and immediately hit the corner. Maybe has something to do with procedural stages lacking pace note 'situational context'

Yup, I assume co-driver calls became a problem at every joint between tiles. 

[RodgerDavies 933]

Rallystu2 said:

gk9147 said:

dgeesi0 clearly no because in rally you listen the co-driver ( ok the turn is same but he have not same place and you is forced to listen the  co-driver , especially in the fog and in view cokpit (  not dashboard views and change mode on your wheel too ) try and after said me is easy to watch the next  turn .

I felt the co driver was poo in d4. So many ultra late notes. Like a 1 right being issued as I crest a hill and immediately hit the corner. Maybe has something to do with procedural stages lacking pace note 'situational context'

I found this too; in the quicker cars I was driving as much by remembering visuals as by pace-notes. That said, they were a bit more relevant in D4. I also liked having the choice of co-drivers, and hope that DLC will bring a couple more voices over time (get Paul back in the DBox!).

[Riggs 1,668]

They could re-use Nicky Grist's pacenotes and bring Robert Reid in a DLC, along with a few others, like Luis Moya for spanish pacenotes.

[Rallystu2 715]

I'm looking forward to big Phil's notes. Has a great instantly recognisable style. 

[RodgerDavies 933]

Rallystu2 said:

I'm looking forward to big Phil's notes. Has a great instantly recognisable style. 

That style being "more relaxed than me driving to the supermarket"

[Oscar97 25]

I have to say Your Stage is an incredibly powerful tool and I hope it comes back some day. The best way to implement it would be to have hand-made stages and the ability to generate stages for each location.

[Rallystu2 715]

The problem with mixing procedural stages with real ones is they would contrast heavily. I think the way to go would be to have a map, a real world one where junctions can be adjusted in a finite manner to create multiple stage layouts. The procedural stages just lack the life and real feel of a proper stage.

[dgeesi0 305]

Oscar97 said:

I have to say Your Stage is an incredibly powerful tool and I hope it comes back some day. The best way to implement it would be to have hand-made stages and the ability to generate stages for each location.

the idea behind your stage is great . the tool honestly is poor. im sure it will be great at some point but people are mainly missing what makes rally great . its the iconic stages you rally on. not generating your own stage. thats great for esports or competitive. for the masses they want world known stages. so they can imagine doing what they cant in real life. your stage in dirt 4 and make sure people drop a dislike was terrible. it was same corner same corner same corner. it was just as bad as knowing a event inside out but atleast with a real event you have the status on it. where as a generated event you have nothing. so its actually worse if its done badly.

thats why yourstage shouldnt be added again until its 100 percent perfect as it will never compete with a real proper big event.