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They have to watch races from 2009-2013 to feel better about the current situation. ;)
I cried because it's true

Having said that, most Vettel fans these days seem to be the ones who jumped on the bandwagon since 2015, so they probably don't enjoy his RB days so much. Despite the man himself being the same person and driver he was back then. Which is quite funny, because it seems apparent now that all the booing he often encountered in 2013 was due to people getting wound up by his success rather than disliking Seb Vettel the person, as was being claimed at the time. 

Anyway, I digress. Long story short it's amazing what a change of overalls and a change in the pecking order can do to one's image. 
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You know what: You're right. I agree about the two things we were talking about being quite different, now that you've explained it this way.
It's just that I think you shouldn't throw all LH-fans in the same pot. Tbh, I cringe quite a lot reading what some of my fellow LH-fans say. I even argue with them whenever I feel they're being ridiculous. And what sucks is that - at least that's my impression - you don't seem to make a distinction between someone like me, and someone who claims that Mercedes are deliberately manipulating the outcome of this championship. And in return, I give you some sh*t back. ;)

No hard feelings.
That actually explains a lot. I wasn't trying to do that, so I apologize if I gave you that feeling. For what it's worth, I do think you're passionate in your support of Hamilton and sometimes in ways that does annoys me a bit, but I in no way associate you with those people. You're a normal fan to me like how Vettelfan is a normal Vettel-fan for example.

I guess if I'm going to be more considerate, I would say that Hamilton has the largest fanbase out of all drivers, but it has a big branch that's very active on the internet and that branch is poisonous to the tree. Didn't mean it so literal that I was directing my gripe towards the entire fanbase. It's why I was surprised at you disagreeing to the point I felt like I had to call it out. Hamilton should probably not pander so much to them too. Makes them feel justified when they "fight" for their guy. It's an annoying unsubstantial "us vs. them"-mentality that you see with a lot of popular, controversial figures that get a lot of hate. Like Beyoncé. Or One Direction. Or Bieber. But I digress.

But whatever, we talked it out, so that's good.
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I'll happily admit that I wasn't a fan of Vettel in his Red Bull days, simply because he was winning everything! Lewis has always been my favourite racer, and it killed me seeing four years of Vettel / Red Bull near-domination, when I genuinely believed Hamilton deserved one of those titles. The booing Vettel received was completely unfair, although the whole Multi 21 situation didn't help his case either, but look at the all-time greats. They all did something controversial to help them win, and that's why they do win.
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VetteIfan said:
They have to watch races from 2009-2013 to feel better about the current situation. ;)
I cried because it's true

Having said that, most Vettel fans these days seem to be the ones who jumped on the bandwagon since 2015, so they probably don't enjoy his RB days so much. Despite the man himself being the same person and driver he was back then. Which is quite funny, because it seems apparent now that all the booing he often encountered in 2013 was due to people getting wound up by his success rather than disliking Seb Vettel the person, as was being claimed at the time. 

Anyway, I digress. Long story short it's amazing what a change of overalls and a change in the pecking order can do to one's image. 
If you visit the formula one sub reddit you quickly notice how much opinion has changed towards him. When he had a go on the radio about Kvyat everyone laughed and thought he was comedy gold. If you go back 3 years he is a "spoilt brat" or "whiny" for doing the same thing. 

I don't really know what to make of it - I'm glad people have finally stopped saying he's a crash kid who can't race wheel to wheel but all these new "fans" hated him 3 years ago. Not really the kind of fans I would want if I was a driver. I admit I did kind of like seeing people cry about his success during those years. 
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AMS97KRR said:
VetteIfan said:
They have to watch races from 2009-2013 to feel better about the current situation. ;)
I cried because it's true

Having said that, most Vettel fans these days seem to be the ones who jumped on the bandwagon since 2015, so they probably don't enjoy his RB days so much. Despite the man himself being the same person and driver he was back then. Which is quite funny, because it seems apparent now that all the booing he often encountered in 2013 was due to people getting wound up by his success rather than disliking Seb Vettel the person, as was being claimed at the time. 

Anyway, I digress. Long story short it's amazing what a change of overalls and a change in the pecking order can do to one's image. 
If you visit the formula one sub reddit you quickly notice how much opinion has changed towards him. When he had a go on the radio about Kvyat everyone laughed and thought he was comedy gold. If you go back 3 years he is a "spoilt brat" or "whiny" for doing the same thing. 

I don't really know what to make of it - I'm glad people have finally stopped saying he's a crash kid who can't race wheel to wheel but all these new "fans" hated him 3 years ago. Not really the kind of fans I would want if I was a driver. I admit I did kind of like seeing people cry about his success during those years. 
Just like I kinda like seeing people cry about Hamilton's success ;)

With Vettel for me, I don't consider myself a fan, and I did hate him 3 years ago. But my thoughts on him have very much cooled down with his move to Ferrari. Or in other words, since he stopped winning every other race :p I didn't consider him one of the greats back then because he'd only ever driven for Red Bull, and always seemed to have a car with an advantage. But if you asked me to rate the best drivers in F1 today, I'd probably rank both Hamilton and Vettel as equal best. 

In fact, gonna rank where I consider the current field of drivers, feel free to do the same if any of you want to :) 

Rank 1: Hamilton, Vettel.
Rank 2: Alonso, Button, Ricciardo, Rosberg.
Rank 3: Perez, Bottas, Grosjean, Raikkonen, Verstappen, Massa, Kvyat.
Rank 4: Palmer, Magnussen, Sainz, Wehrlein, Hulkenberg.
Rank 5: Ericsson.
Rank 6: Gutierrez, Nasr, Haryanto.

Obviously most of this is just based on what I've seen of the drivers, and it's mostly based on how I think they're doing, so car performance will play a role in the way I've ranked them.
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Again, based on driver performance, but I would rank them as:

Tier 1: Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo.
Tier 2: Alonso, Rosberg, Button, Grosjean, Verstappen.
Tier 3: Perez, Bottas, Raikkonen, Massa, Hulkenberg, Magnussen.
Tier 4: Sainz, Kvyat, Wehrlein.
Tier 5: Palmer, Ericsson, Nasr.
Tier 6: Gutierrez, Haryanto.

I'm putting Ricciardo up in the top tier with Hamilton and Vettel. I would have had Alonso up there too, but he didn't comfortably beat Jenson last year, and Jenson has always been a match for him, so he's on Tier 2 now, and I'm putting Grosjean in that 2nd tier as well with Verstappen.

If you got rid of the bottom tier drivers and replaced them with lets say Vandoorne, Vergne and Ocon then you would have one immense grid of drivers.
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Seems fun:

Tier 1: Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso
Tier 1.5: Button, Ricciardo, Rosberg
Tier 2: Bottas, Raikkonen, Grosjean, Massa, Perez, Hulkenberg, Verstappen, Magnussen, Vandoorne
Tier 3: Sainz, Ericsson, Palmer, Kvyat, Wehrlein
Tier 4: Gutierrez, Nasr, Haryanto

I included Vandoorne since he raced even if it hard to judge. I've had to do a tier 1.5 as I feel those three drivers are definitely amongst the best but ever so slightly behind the lead three but better than those behind. The top three are obvious really. I've put Button in 1.5 as he is more or less matching Alonso and he more or less matched Hamilton. With Ricciardo it's easy to say he beat Vettel but that was one season, if he had demolished Kvyat last year I'd have put him in tier 1 but it was closer than expected and Rosberg is more or less there with Hamilton but is he equal to him yet? Will see how the season pans out.
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Tier 1: Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo
Tier 2: Button, Rosberg, Verstappen, Grosjean
Tier 3: Bottas, Perez, Raikkonen, Hulkenberg, Sainz, Kvyat
Tier 4: Magnussen, Massa, Wehrlein
Tier 5: Nasr, Palmer
Tier 6: Gutierrez, Ericsson, Haryanto

Ricciardo is a tough one but for me he just sneaks in to "tier 1" now. I know he finished behind Kvyat last season but he had the bulk of the bad luck in races where he would've scored big - Silverstone and Spa jump to mind. And in the two races where the Red Bull came alive, Hungary and Singapore, he was on a different level than Kvyat all weekend. Plus, I believe he's the best overtaker in F1 right now. 

Guys like Wehrlein and Palmer are super difficult to judge at this point, as I would like to note that this table is based on current performance (like I think everyone else has done), not performance throughout their career. Otherwise there would be some quite notable changes - e.g Grosjean would be relegated, Raikkonen and Massa would be promoted. 
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Tier 1: Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso
Tier 1.5: Rosberg, Button, Ricciardo, Raikkonen
Tier 2: Bottas, Grosjean, Perez, Verstappen, Massa
Tier 3: Kvyat, Hulkenberg, Sainz, Palmer, Magnussen
Tier 4: Ericsson, Nasr, Wehrlein
Tier 5: Gutierrez, Haryanto

Ricciardo and Alonso could easily trade places though.
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Tier 1: Vettel and Hamilton
Tier 1.5: Rosberg and Ricciardo 
Tier 2: Button, Alonso, Raikkonen (maybe Grosjean)
Tier 3: Verstauen, Grosjean, Massa, Perez, Bottes
Tier 4: Hulk, Kvyat, Sainz, Magnussen, (maybe Vandoorne? tough to judge)
Tier 5: Ericsson, Palmer (maybe actually 4), Nasr, Wehrlein (maybe 4), Gutierez
Tier 6: Rio
Tier 99: Maldonado
Tier 100: Ide, Inoue 
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Tier 1: Vettel, Hamilton
Tier 2: Ricciardo, Grosjean, Alonso
Tier 3: Verstappen, Button, Rosberg
Tier 4: Bottas, Raikkönen, Massa
Tier 5: Perez, Hulkenberg, Kyvat, Sainz, Wehrlein
Tier 6: Ericsson, Nasr, Gutierrez, Magnussen, Palmer
Tier 7: Haryanto

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A bit of shameless promotion coming up, but a couple of months ago I started up a new blog called Drop The Clutch. https://droptheclutch.wordpress.com/

There are literally thousands of blogs and websites about Formula 1 which do essentially the same thing, writing about the results, analysis of the drivers, blah blah blah, so I wanted to make mine a bit different, taking inspiration from the likes of WTF1 and the F1 Broadcasting Blog who have done things differently, and done pretty well from it.

So my blog focuses on other stuff to do with motorsport that doesn't normally get written about, such as crash helmet reviews, track design analysis, the design and branding of Formula 1, and more to come in the future.

Take a look.
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MBKF1 said:
A bit of shameless promotion coming up, but a couple of months ago I started up a new blog called Drop The Clutch. https://droptheclutch.wordpress.com/

There are literally thousands of blogs and websites about Formula 1 which do essentially the same thing, writing about the results, analysis of the drivers, blah blah blah, so I wanted to make mine a bit different, taking inspiration from the likes of WTF1 and the F1 Broadcasting Blog who have done things differently, and done pretty well from it.

So my blog focuses on other stuff to do with motorsport that doesn't normally get written about, such as crash helmet reviews, track design analysis, the design and branding of Formula 1, and more to come in the future.

Take a look.
I'll be sure to keep an eye out! I approve of you using Wordpress, it's so easy and provides a really nice website design.
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Is it just me or does anybody else think Fuji is an awesome circuit? Not particularly for racing, but for hot-lapping. Watching the 2008 race from there, the first and second sectors are fantastic, the third sector less so but I still like how hard that section is to pick out the best line.
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Wonder what's happened with Ruth Buscombe and Haas. She's 'on leave' has changed her Twitter profile from Haas picture and background to just her, and her profile is now set to private. It's all very strange.
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Who's that?                                                 
You don't know who she is? She worked at Ferrari before Haas and is the race strategist
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/alumna-ruth-buscombe-formula-one-scuderia-ferrari-strategist-joins-haas-f1-team
https://twitter.com/ruthbuscombe


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