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Mexicola said:
http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2016/7/rosberg-relaxed-about-hamiltons-winning-roll.html

I really hate Rosberg.
He confuses the hell out of me. I like him, but he seems sooooo laid back about losing to Hamilton the past few races. So many times in the last two and a half years we've heard Nico say 'Lewis did a better job this weekend'. On the contrary, we hardly ever hear Lewis say that, and I think it's because he just believes and knows that he's the better driver. Lewis knows that in a fair battle with totally equal machinery, he can beat anyone.

I know I'm gonna sound like Johnny Herbert here, forgive me, but Lewis does seem to have Rosberg beaten psychologically. Look at all the times the two have come into wheel to wheel combat, Lewis nearly always comes out on top, unless they crash (Spa, Spain), but even in Austria Lewis still won, despite Rosberg's best efforts.

As far as I'm concerned, Nico is extremely fortunate to be in the position he is in right now, leading by 1 point. He had it easy in the first four races. Ferrari f***ed up in Australia, Lewis ran into problems in Bahrain and had technical problems in China and Russia. I'm pretty sure Lewis could have won at least two of those four without those technical issues.

The only thing stopping Lewis winning this championship is reliability. He's got the edge on Rosberg, and Rosberg's gonna need a lot of bad luck and himself capitalising on it to beat him.
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Yea Rosberg moving over lost it for me, you know full well Hamilton wouldn't do the same (which has been proven) because he has the winning mentality, Rosberg simply doesn't. 

Sky showing China 2013, as soon as the light went green I got excited even though I know the result, again because of the noise. Since going to V6 I tend to fall asleep during early starting races like Japan even though I love the track, never happened during the V8s and above. 
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Hughesy said:
you know full well Hamilton wouldn't do the same (which has been proven)
When was Lewis ever in the position to be 2 seconds a lap slower than Nico without letting him through? Hungary 2014 - if this is the proof you're talking about - Lewis said that if Nico got close enough, he would not stand in his way. Nico never even got within DRS-range, so there was no pace advantage on his side and therefore no reason to move over.
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Uhh Yea that's my point donut. :p It wouldn't matter if Lewis was slower he wouldn't let a championship rival past... At Hungary he said he wasn't going to slow down, which pretty much meant Nico had to actually overtake him. This is why Lewis has won and Nico hasn't, Nico is a soft touch  ;)
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Imola signs a deal for the Italian GP: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/imola-signs-agreement-with-ecclestone-for-italian-gp-798879/

It depends on a few political things to be sorted and if Monza agrees a deal then it takes priority over Imola. It could also be an alternating deal between the two. I'd be perfectly fine with whatever so long as there is a race in Italy.
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But once again, Hungary was a different situation. None of the two Merc drivers was 2 seconds/lap quicker, unlike Monaco.
Other than the pace differential, the situations were pretty much identical. Nico did get in DRS range numerous times, but not to the extent to which Lewis deemed him "close enough". Nico could've taken the same approach and said "if he's so much faster than me, tell him to overtake me", knowing full well that it's Monaco and track position is king. Dick move, but anything's better than letting your title rival past to go on and win. Perhaps he was thinking about his contract, but Jiggy is absolutely correct. 
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I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
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fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
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AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
Neither, I missed him because I'm an idiot  :#
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fIsince08 said:
AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
Neither, I missed him because I'm an idiot  :#
I was wondering about him earlier when I saw your post, but then I just figured maybe you don't rate him worthy :p

Also, it seems Imola may have a contract, but Monza is still likely to be the Italian GP thankfully! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125344/monza-deal-close-despite-imola-f1-contract

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At the moment I think the 2017 lineup is on hold until Mclaren announce whether Button or Vandoorne is in the car next season. Vandoorne will race next season, and it looks most likely Mclaren with Button going to Williams alongside Bottas if he doesn't retire. If Button stays at Mclaren then I wouldn't be surprised if it's instead Vandoorne that partners Bottas at Williams. Otherwise I can see him at Renault alongside Magnussen or even at Sauber if Mclaren pay them to put him in the car.
Personally, while they're still in their development stage with Honda and with big changes in the regulations, Mclaren should stick with Button and have Vandoorne for 2018 but have him secured into another car for next season to get some experience. His debut sure, but he was a fair bit off Button's pace in Bahrain before he broke down.
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fIsince08 said:
AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
Neither, I missed him because I'm an idiot  :#
I was wondering about him earlier when I saw your post, but then I just figured maybe you don't rate him worthy :p

Also, it seems Imola may have a contract, but Monza is still likely to be the Italian GP thankfully! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125344/monza-deal-close-despite-imola-f1-contract

I think it would be the best case scenario to have Monza as the Italian GP and Imola as the European GP. I really like Imola, so seeing it back would be great. Or just the regular San Marino GP would be nice. I've thought for a while that the European GP should move around each year, we could alternate between France, Portugal, Netherlands, and Baku if they insist on it.
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fIsince08 said:
AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
Neither, I missed him because I'm an idiot  :#
Oh right :L 

I wonder where he could fit in there, I think realistically he would just stay put, making Alex Lynn the reserve driver. But in terms of other places he could go, what about Haas? Grosjean and Bottas is a strong pairing, either of those two could end up at Ferrari as a solid 2nd driver. Or maybe Renault? I don't know how certain Ocon is to be there as I don't know much about him. I don't really see him going anywhere else, Renault and Haas are the only teams IMO that can offer him a better car, more likely in the long term at least. Renault have a lot of money and the people to get back to the front of the midfield IMO, and Haas as I said is a path to Ferrari really.
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AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
AMS97KRR said:
fIsince08 said:
I'm going to go for an early silly season driver market guess for 2017:
  • Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg (Pascal Werhlein reserve driver)
  • Ferrari: Sebasitan Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen (Jean-Eric Vergne reserve driver)
  • Williams: Jenson Button, Alex Lynn (Daniil Kvyat reserve driver)
  • Red Bull: Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen (Carlos Sainz reserve driver)
  • Force India: Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez (Alfonso Celis reserve driver)
  • Renault: Kevin Magnussen, Esteban Ocon (Sergey Sirotkin reserve driver)
  • Toro Rosso: Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly (Sergio Camara reserve driver)
  • Sauber: Marcus Ericsson, Raffaele Marciello (Antonio Fuoco reserve driver)
  • McLaren: Fernando Alonso, Stoffel Vandoorne (Nobuharu Matsushita reserve driver)
  • Manor: Pascal Werhlein, Jordan King (Alex Rossi reserve driver)
  • Haas: Romain Grosjean, Charles Leclerc (Santino Ferrucci reserve driver)
Wait, is Bottas missing entirely from that on purpose? Or did I miss him?
Neither, I missed him because I'm an idiot  :#
Oh right :L 

I wonder where he could fit in there, I think realistically he would just stay put, making Alex Lynn the reserve driver. But in terms of other places he could go, what about Haas? Grosjean and Bottas is a strong pairing, either of those two could end up at Ferrari as a solid 2nd driver. Or maybe Renault? I don't know how certain Ocon is to be there as I don't know much about him. I don't really see him going anywhere else, Renault and Haas are the only teams IMO that can offer him a better car, more likely in the long term at least. Renault have a lot of money and the people to get back to the front of the midfield IMO, and Haas as I said is a path to Ferrari really.
I've been thinking about it and I think Renault is a likely option. Ocon could do with another season in DTM.
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Ocon in general is seen as sure of a pick for a 2017-Renault seat as you can get, but it's F1, so you're not in unless you're in.


And if you're Maldonado or a Sauber-driver, even when you're in, you're not in.
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I think if McLaren doesn't keep Button, he'll likely just retire. He's not the kind of guy with a chip on his shoulder with something to prove or has unfinished business (except for maybe at McLaren). I think most the Williams stuff is just wishful thinking. 

It all really does depend on McLaren and the subsequent options for Button or Vandoorne. If McLaren don't give it to Vandoorne they need to figure out something to do for him. He's too good of a talent to let sit in the garage especially considering some of the drivers currently on the grid. 
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I think if McLaren doesn't keep Button, he'll likely just retire. He's not the kind of guy with a chip on his shoulder with something to prove or has unfinished business (except for maybe at McLaren). I think most the Williams stuff is just wishful thinking. 

It all really does depend on McLaren and the subsequent options for Button or Vandoorne. If McLaren don't give it to Vandoorne they need to figure out something to do for him. He's too good of a talent to let sit in the garage especially considering some of the drivers currently on the grid. 
He'll be 25 next season as well. If he joined in 2018 he'd be 26 when starting his first full season, that's just crazy, He badly needs a drive next year, maybe McLaren could pay Sauber or Manor to take him. I don't know if they would consider that or not, but if it is possible, I would try it. Haas and Force India are out of the question, Force India have a strong pair, and Haas are Ferrari 2.0 so they will not help a rival team. Could Williams take Vaandorne if they got money for doing it? I don't know, but I hope he gets a seat. 

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Sauber secure new owners: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125365

It's good that the team survives but a shame Kaltenborn remains team principal. It also means Ericsson will probably drive for them again next season.
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AMS97KRR said:
I think if McLaren doesn't keep Button, he'll likely just retire. He's not the kind of guy with a chip on his shoulder with something to prove or has unfinished business (except for maybe at McLaren). I think most the Williams stuff is just wishful thinking. 

It all really does depend on McLaren and the subsequent options for Button or Vandoorne. If McLaren don't give it to Vandoorne they need to figure out something to do for him. He's too good of a talent to let sit in the garage especially considering some of the drivers currently on the grid. 
He'll be 25 next season as well. If he joined in 2018 he'd be 26 when starting his first full season, that's just crazy, He badly needs a drive next year, maybe McLaren could pay Sauber or Manor to take him. I don't know if they would consider that or not, but if it is possible, I would try it. Haas and Force India are out of the question, Force India have a strong pair, and Haas are Ferrari 2.0 so they will not help a rival team. Could Williams take Vaandorne if they got money for doing it? I don't know, but I hope he gets a seat. 

I didn't realize he was that "old." He doesn't have a lot of options if McLaren intend to keep him. They either have to replace Button with him, or find a seat. Like you said he isn't going to Force India. The only way he'd go to Haas is if he severs all ties with McLaren and signs onto Ferrari, which isn't happening. I doubt Manor because Mercedes seems to have a strong influence there. Maybe Sauber, but with the new ownership they might not need to same kinda money, who knows. So it's Williams but they have their own "Vandoorne-esque" driver in Lynn. 

Poor kid, he's got the talent but someone's gotta give him the chance.
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Jenson Button is a superb driver, and obviously being British I do have a soft spot for him, but he's not the future for McLaren. Stoffel Vandoorne is.

I am pretty confident that in 2018 or so, McLaren Honda will be challenging for podiums and possibly even the odd win. So for that season, do McLaren want a driver who is long past his glory days and will probably retire the year after, or a new young driver who has the best junior record of anyone out there?

If I were McLaren I would get Vandoorne in for 2017, give him that year to develop, and then it'll give him the best shot at fighting for the top places right away in 2018.
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