The Formula 1 Stuff Thread

[buttonfan 5]

It's official, Ericcson will race for Sauber next year

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/11/16557.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

[MBKF1 91]

'The Sauber F1 Team has put its trust in me for 2015, and it makes me proud, as Sauber is known to be one of the best teams in developing young drivers.'

If I translate that into the truth, that is:
'The Sauber F1 Team needs money and they have signed me for 2015, and it makes me proud, as Sauber is known recently to be one of the best teams in signing pay drivers.'

[couger1981 94]

Bernie rules out 3 car teams in 2015

http://twitter.com/motor_racing/status/528857472685993984

F1 News

[buttonfan 5]

https://twitter.com/byronf1/status/529052467083116544

7? That's a new one.. 

[f1since08 110]

How would you rate the drivers in terms of skill? I'd say this:

1. Alonso - Everyone agrees he's the best all rounder on the grid and he's a beast at out performing the car, but he isn't good at car development.
2. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.
3. Ricciardo - Proven this season he is a super fast driver and his racecraft is the best we've seen this year, he needs to keep doing it though to prove it isn't a one off.
4. Bottas - The other young star. Very quick but his racecraft lacks at crucial times on occasion.
5. Vettel - He must have talent to be a 4 times champion, but this year has proven he struggles in a bad car.
6. Rosberg pretty level with Vettel, but he's been shown up by Hamilton this year. He did beat Schumacher over three years though.
7. Bianchi - Sadly probably not going to be on the grid again, but he was almost certainly a future champion before his accident
8. Kvyat - A future star in the making, but has had one or two dodgy moments
9. Raikkonen - Should be at least a double champion, but can't drive an understeering car.
10. Grosjean - Has a lot of pace, but on occasions he does slip into old habits.
11. Hulkenberg - We all know his pace, his wet weather skills are good but he has lost his way recently.
12. Massa - Seems to have found a new lease of life at Williams, but his speed isn't what it used to be. His experience is important though.
13. Button - Not the fastest, but his racecraft was proven at Austin and he is the best wet weather driver on the grid. Can't develop the car.
14. Vergne - He kept Ricciardo at bay when both were at Toro Rosso.
    
15. Magnussen - There does seem to be talent in their, but it's yet to be fully released.
16. Kobayashi - We know what Kamui can do, but he's bottom of the WDC (excluding Lotterer) and has started to be shown up by Ericsson.
17. Perez - The McLaren year proved he's nothing special, but he's kept Hulkenberg honest this season - he's caused some stupid crashes though.
18. Gutierrez - Mediocre.
19. Sutil - Bang on average.
20. Ericsson - Pay driver who has started showing off a little.
21. Chilton - Pay driver, but he did keep Bianchi on his tows on occasions.
22. Maldonado - Crashtor Venezuelan money.

[buttonfan 5]

Button - Not the fastest, but his racecraft was proven at Austin

Is this a copy/paste from 2012? :p

[SASBlink 1]

Alo, Ham and Ric as the top three is a solid assessment. I Cant argue with that.

I'd put Sutil at the near bottom next to Maldonchasho, just don't rate him, he never does anything great, Di Resta should of had his place in the team.

Perez and Kobi should be higher ranked but i think they dropped their game down after circumstances, so i think their places are a fair assessment. 

[SamuelTrautman 0]

i'd argue with it sasblink :) cos vettels gotta be in the top 3

I can kind of understand why people diss him, they say he walked staright into the best car,,,,eh its happens, even lewis jumped straight into a title fighting car. its what you do with it that counts. everyone has there own opinion though cant argue with that.

[SASBlink 1]

I wont argrue with that lol, gotta be good to win 4 titles and webber was no slouch but i rate people on how they drive bad cars as well as good cars, Alo and Ham always outperform their cars, good or bad. Ric is also doing the same with his current bad car and beating Vet, so he gets in the top 3 otherwise Vet will be there.... we not seen Ric in a good car yet, just imagine what Ric could do. :)

 I always said, if Vet can out drive a bad car like Alo or Ham does then I will put as no.1. 

[Platy 6]

1 Alonso

2 Hamilton

3 Vettel

4 Rosberg

5 Ricciardo

6 Bottas

7 Hulkenburg

8 Vergne

9 Button

10 Massa

11 Perez

12 Magnussen

13 Raikkonen

14 Grosjean

15 Kvyat

16 Bianchi

17 Kobayashi

18 Ericsson

19 Gutierrez

20 Chilton

21 Maldonado

22 Sutil

[GoldenColt 1]

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

[alonsofan46 0]

GoldenColt said:

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

To be fair he can get erratic at times (look at Germany) but he still has some of the best race craft on the grid. That definitely isn't his biggest weakness.

[GoldenColt 1]

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

  (look at Germany)

You mean when he finished 3rd after starting last?

[alonsofan46 0]

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Ricciardo
4. Bottas
5. Hulkenberg
6. Rosberg
7. Vettel
8. Grosjean
9. Bianchi
10. Magnussen
11. Kvyat
12. Button
13. Raikkonen
14. Vergne
15. Perez
16. Massa
17. Kobayashi
18. Sutil
19. Gutierrez
20. Chilton
21. Ericsson
22. Maldonado

[VetteIfan 0]

Doing it in a list like what is being thrown around is really difficult. The drivers are too closely matched to all be at 22 different skill levels imo. I'd rate it more like:

Elite:
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

And a new inductee to that in Ricciardo, if he keeps on doing what he's doing. 

Great:
Rosberg, Bottas, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Button, Grosjean

Good:
Vergne, Bianchi, Kvyat, Massa, Magnussen, Perez, Sutil, Kobayashi

Mediocre: 
Maldonado, Gutierrez, Chilton, Ericcson

It's all just perception anyway though, and that's just my perception right there. A better car always makes it easier to show off skills, and also more visible to us because the cameras and news stories are always on the drivers racing at the front. For example,  time last year Grosjean would never have been that low down on your numbered list. And if Vergne was in a Red Bull this season he would almost certainly have be in at least your top 8 now. And it's not because they're driving any differently, it's just because they're in a different level of competitiveness car. 

[alonsofan46 0]

GoldenColt said:

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

  (look at Germany)

You mean when he finished 3rd after starting last?

And hit every second car he passed ...

[GoldenColt 1]

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

  (look at Germany)

You mean when he finished 3rd after starting last?

And hit every second car he passed ...

IIRC he made about 20 overtakes and touched two cars, that's a grand total of 10%...

I take it Alonsos' victory in Valencia 2012 wasn't worth being mentioned as a great recovery drive because he banged wheels with Grosjean and one of the Force India's at the beginning of the race.

[RevolvingPrawn 1]

VetteIfan said:

Doing it in a list like what is being thrown around is really difficult. The drivers are too closely matched to all be at 22 different skill levels imo. I'd rate it more like:

Elite:
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

And a new inductee to that in Ricciardo, if he keeps on doing what he's doing. 

Great:
Rosberg, Bottas, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Button, Grosjean

Good:
Vergne, Bianchi, Kvyat, Massa, Magnussen, Perez, Sutil, Kobayashi

Mediocre: 
Maldonado, Gutierrez, Chilton, Ericcson

It's all just perception anyway though, and that's just my perception right there. A better car always makes it easier to show off skills, and also more visible to us because the cameras and news stories are always on the drivers racing at the front. For example,  time last year Grosjean would never have been that low down on your numbered list. And if Vergne was in a Red Bull this season he would almost certainly have be in at least your top 8 now. And it's not because they're driving any differently, it's just because they're in a different level of competitiveness car. 

If we are basing these off this years performance, I'd bump Vettel down from Elite to Great :p Otherwise I'd say that's pretty damn spot on.

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

alonsofan46 said:

GoldenColt said:

fIsince08 said:

1. Hamilton - The fastest on the grid, but his racecraft isn't the best compared to others.

Seriously? His racecraft has been pretty damn good since the beginning of his career and it hasn't got much worse (apart from 2011) since then, quite the opposite.

  (look at Germany)

You mean when he finished 3rd after starting last?

And hit every second car he passed ...

Vettel's Abu Dhabi drive was a lot worse, yet people still call that a great drive...

[APR193 0]

How people can rate Maldonado lower than Chilton/Ericcson/Kobayashi is beyond me. There's a big difference between not liking a driver and them not being good. I can't see Chilton/Ericsson/Sutil/Gutierrez/Perez/Kobayashi and more winning with the same situation Pastor had. I don't like Maldonado at all, but his pace is very good. His ability to keep the car out of the walls, or other people's cars, is the problem. Unfortunately its happened for so long its got to the point where you have to accept he won't get better. Shame as he had the pace to beat anyone on his day. Still a much better driver than almost half the field imo as far as speed goes

[SASBlink 1]

APR193 said:

How people can rate Maldonado lower than Chilton/Ericcson/Kobayashi is beyond me. There's a big difference between not liking a driver and them not being good. I can't see Chilton/Ericsson/Sutil/Gutierrez/Perez/Kobayashi and more winning with the same situation Pastor had. I don't like Maldonado at all, but his pace is very good. His ability to keep the car out of the walls, or other people's cars, is the problem. Unfortunately its happened for so long its got to the point where you have to accept he won't get better. Shame as he had the pace to beat anyone on his day. Still a much better driver than almost half the field imo as far as speed goes

I disagree, without the big money he comes with I doubt  he would even be on the grid....hes still a pay to race driver by my opinion.

[APR193 0]

SASBlink said:

APR193 said:

How people can rate Maldonado lower than Chilton/Ericcson/Kobayashi is beyond me. There's a big difference between not liking a driver and them not being good. I can't see Chilton/Ericsson/Sutil/Gutierrez/Perez/Kobayashi and more winning with the same situation Pastor had. I don't like Maldonado at all, but his pace is very good. His ability to keep the car out of the walls, or other people's cars, is the problem. Unfortunately its happened for so long its got to the point where you have to accept he won't get better. Shame as he had the pace to beat anyone on his day. Still a much better driver than almost half the field imo as far as speed goes

I disagree, without the big money he comes with I doubt  he would even be on the grid....hes still a pay to race driver by my opinion.

I completely agree that he wouldn't be there without the cash, but how people say he's useless is just not true. His speed is very good, but he's too inconsistent and accident prone. About the pay drive though, imo you could say the same about Perez, Chilton, Ericcson, Sutil, Gutierrez, how Kobayashi got back into F1 is ridiculous. They're all average or worse by F1 standards

[Platy 6]

Tbf, Chilton/Ericsson/Suitl/Gutierrez/Perez/Kobayshi didn't get banned for life from racing at Monaco only for daddy to pay their way out of the ban.

Also, Perez nearly won at Malaysia a couple of years ago.

[SamuelTrautman 0]

this is why we all will never agree, I don't like Hamilton but damn he's a good driver I would never take that away from him though he is erratic at times like everyone else under immense pressure.

 @sasblink I have a few answers for your last response to me and the one above, cant be bothered quoting you lol, anyways here we go

1, vettel won in a toro rosso, is that not a bad car? lol I cant ever remember Alonso winning in a "bad" car- except Singapore but we all know what happened there in 2008, cheating from the team to get safety car out.

2, Alonso paid to get into f1 and look at him now, he was paying minardi via a sponsor, exact the same as Maldonado is doing. in fact Alonso brings sponsorship to every team with the backing of the don Emilio the owner of Santander.

[SASBlink 1]

SamuelTrautman said:

this is why we all will never agree, I don't like Hamilton but damn he's a good driver I would never take that away from him though he is erratic at times like everyone else under immense pressure.

 @sasblink I have a few answers for your last response to me and the one above, cant be bothered quoting you lol, anyways here we go

1, vettel won in a toro rosso, is that not a bad car? lol I cant ever remember Alonso winning in a "bad" car- except Singapore but we all know what happened there in 2008, cheating from the team to get safety car out.

2, Alonso paid to get into f1 and look at him now, he was paying minardi via a sponsor, exact the same as Maldonado is doing. in fact Alonso brings sponsorship to every team with the backing of the don Emilio the owner of Santander.

1Vettel, the win was more luck and good strategy from the backroom team than anything.... The rainy conditions plus the team got the strategy right, you see lots of people wining in those conditions, that why people call it a lottery when it rains :)

2 lol about the alonso part, darn cheaters, your right about that part to an extent :stuck_out_tongue: he also won races last few years in the Ferrari's which were 2 secs off the pace....  but everyone could see his potential from the day he started racing, everyone was saying he was a multipliable world champion in the making, even without the sponsors every team would have him but not many have said the same about maldonaldo, which brings me back to my original point, after a few years in f1 you should have a good enough reputation to get into teams without the effect of giving them money..... take the sponsors away and where would he be?

[SamuelTrautman 0]

@sasblink , I understand but the same could be said about every driver who brings money, if Alonso had no backing I doubt he would ever have had a seat in F1. maybe but we will never know im just glad he did because him beating schummi to end his dominace was brilliant, never ever will I forget 2005. but it just goes to show even the best of the best need a helping hand sometimes. im not a massive fan of Maldonado but that win in spain to beat Alonso at home was just epic, and on another note he won that with a really bad car.

ok and for the vettel in Monza, luck? im not so sure. maybe if he started further back and people crashed out that would be luck, but if I remember right he got pole and went on to win, fair enough maybe there was a tiny bit of luck but you have to remember the Ferrari and McLaren were both amazing cars in that year and "a good car is good no matter what the conditions are" ( so says jenson button and he is the best wet driver just now). and the team, toro rosso aint nowhere near the likes of Ferrari or McLaren. I could go on and on about how vettel is being affected this season but my fingers are sore just typing this lol