real life Rallycross: (World RX, Nitro RX & More)

[HoksuHoo 566]

17 minutes ago, JorritVD said:

and Finland.

Cool. KymiRing will be ready for competition next year and it has a nice looking rallycross section

[MattyH1812 349]

29 minutes ago, JorritVD said:

So it seems it is official now, no further action. Timmy is champion.

Gutted

[richieI 603]

I think the reason why Hansen didn't get a penalty is that he didn't get a direct advantage out of that incident in contrast to the videos posted above, so I don't think the stewards' decision here is inconsistent with their ruling compared to past incidents in my view. 

[F2CMaDMaXX 607]

I would love to have seen the rear view of that incident, it was possibly too dusty to make out though.

Bakkerud *did* run wide on that corner - yes, he *was* cutting back late for the apex/drive on the exit, but he was just too wide when he initiated the rotation.

Was there enough room to get underneath? yeah, more or less - *did* Timmy lean on him in doing so?  Yes.  But it really wasn't that hard of a hit.

 

The issue ended up being Timmy being more keen to get on the throttle again from a tighter(slower) line due to not being able to let it run as wide, but the tyre wall but them both.  Bakkerud technically knocked both 208's off the track in that single incident.  There is no way they could have calculated doing this, as we found out, it took what's-his-name to retire later in the race for the result we ended up with.

Once again i saw Bakkerud not fully know what happened, feeling that he was basically rammed off the track (kinda, but racing incident style) rather than him running wide and like any top-tier competitor would, Timmy taking the gap.

 

I was very surprised that Bakkerud was so very salty on the podium, that was not cool.  What was more uncool was Timmy obviously tit-for-tatting him (though Bakkerud started it) during the post race interview and the national anthem, even Kevin had to tell him to knock it off.

[JorritVD 1,376]

Sorry but:

- consistency of penalties, than the DQ of Kevin Hansen at Canada should also not had been given.

- without the hit, Bakkerud wouldn’t end in the wall.

- you can clearly see that Timmy went wide himself, indicating he was much to early on the throttle, also because he was on the normal line. So this again suggesting as an push.

- If the wall wouldn’t be there, Timmy and Andreas would have been next to each other. Andreas would probably have kept P1, as he would have the inside line.

 

overall I think they give the championship to Timmy, so it would give it a bigger chance they will return next season, as the RX Cartel will return anyway.

[tbtstt 2,554]

46 minutes ago, JorritVD said:

overall I think they give the championship to Timmy, so it would give it a bigger chance they will return next season, as the RX Cartel will return anyway.

As much as I try to steer clear of conspiracy theories, this isn't the first questionable stewards decision made at South Africa: the disqualification of Block at Killarney in 2017 was very questionable and, at the time, many said it was purely to put another Peugeot into the final. 

RX Cartel I am not so sure about. From what I gather they are going to have to work hard to secure a budget for next year. 

[PJTierney 6,190]

12 minutes ago, tbtstt said:

this isn't the first questionable stewards decision made at South Africa:

How is stewarding done in World RX?

In F1 there are a number of FIA staff who are present at every round, plus 1 or 2 former drivers that rotate duties across the season.

[mats27 83]

10 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

How is stewarding done in World RX?

In F1 there are a number of FIA staff who are present at every round, plus 1 or 2 former drivers that rotate duties across the season.

I think they have former drivers with the stewards, Rustad this weekend? For the most part penalties come from "Push to pass" or track limits.

[tbtstt 2,554]

1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

How is stewarding done in World RX?

In F1 there are a number of FIA staff who are present at every round, plus 1 or 2 former drivers that rotate duties across the season.

It used to be local stewards at each event @PJTierney (which is why there always seemed to be a convenient disqualification to get Duval into the final in Belgium!), but I am not sure if that has been revised as they were talking about reviewing the process a year or so ago. 

Either way I am sure that the FiA/IMG have some overriding authority. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by tbtstt

[richieI 603]

5 hours ago, JorritVD said:

Sorry but:

- consistency of penalties, than the DQ of Kevin Hansen at Canada should also not had been given.

- without the hit, Bakkerud wouldn’t end in the wall.

- you can clearly see that Timmy went wide himself, indicating he was much to early on the throttle, also because he was on the normal line. So this again suggesting as an push.

- If the wall wouldn’t be there, Timmy and Andreas would have been next to each other. Andreas would probably have kept P1, as he would have the inside line.

 

overall I think they give the championship to Timmy, so it would give it a bigger chance they will return next season, as the RX Cartel will return anyway.

The difference is that in Canada Hansen pushed that car into the wall and kept going, he clearly took advantage. In South Africa Bakkerud touched the wall, yes, but he was able to continue while Hansen almost binned it completely, so I think you can't compare these incidents. I think direct advantage is a factor in the stewards' ruling decision making. Very unfortunate for Bakkerud, of course. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by richie

[JorritVD 1,376]

20 minutes ago, richie said:

The difference is that in Canada Hansen pushed that car into the wall and kept going, he clearly took advantage. In South Africa Bakkerud touched the wall, yes, but he was able to continue while Hansen almost binned it completely, so I think you can't compare these incidents. I think direct advantage is a factor in the stewards' ruling decision making. Very unfortunate for Bakkerud, of course. 

That is strange right? You put someone in the wall, but because you have more disadvantage than the other driver you won't get a penalty? Don't forget Kevin was also involved in the incident and fall back behind Timmy. So you can say that the incident caused by Timmy hurted two drivers (Andreas and Kevin). 

Another problem I have is. It took a long time before it started to be under investigation. And it took a long time to get a decision. And till now the stewards / IMG / FIA didn't gave an explanation why they didn't gave a penalty.

[richieI 603]

27 minutes ago, JorritVD said:

That is strange right? You put someone in the wall, but because you have more disadvantage than the other driver you won't get a penalty? Don't forget Kevin was also involved in the incident and fall back behind Timmy. So you can say that the incident caused by Timmy hurted two drivers (Andreas and Kevin). 

Another problem I have is. It took a long time before it started to be under investigation. And it took a long time to get a decision. And till now the stewards / IMG / FIA didn't gave an explanation why they didn't gave a penalty.

No, it's not strange at all. If a driver gets an advantage out of an incident is a key factor. 

[tbtstt 2,554]

Bakkerud: 

"I may not have won the title, but I’ll always respect my rivals. It’s a shame they don’t live by the same code."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4u8yQ5D8lQ/

[MattyH1812 349]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4u8yQ5D8lQ/

Can't quite believe this...

Dammit! Ninja'd 😂

Edited November 11, 2019 by MattyH1812

[tbtstt 2,554]

6 minutes ago, MattyH1812 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4u8yQ5D8lQ/

Can't quite believe this...

Dammit! Ninja'd 😂

Like the clip of the aggressive Peugeot mechanic earlier in the year, this video may have been selectively edited, but it would certainly explain why Andreas looked especially annoyed on the podium!

[JorritVD 1,376]

It seems Robin Larsson will enter full time World RX in 2020.
More than logical after RallyX Nordic and ERX championships. 
Would also be great if he would enter NRX.
His driving style will suit the American spectators. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4vCgnXjZZR/ 

[richieI 603]

Wow, that's not the reaction you'd expect from a world champion. What the...

[MattyH1812 349]

I've been thinking about the official liveries we'll be getting for the 2019 cars, obviously we'll get the main drivers but hopefully we'll get some extra ones too. 

2 extra per car would be nice but difficult in some cases, I'm thinking:

Audi S1 EKS - Robin Larsson, Ekstrom (Spa)

Pug 208 - maybe the Pailler's or Duborg's?

Mégane RS - Baciuska 

Clio RS - Walfridson (EuroRX)

Seat Ibiza - Munnich's grey EuroRX livery

 

It gets tricky with the Ford's... This is kind of a guess at what liveries we'll get to start with tbh:

Stard Fiesta - Chris Hoy, Pal Try, Paasonen

Fiesta mk8 - Eriksson, Eriksson

Fiesta RSX Evo5 - Baumanis, Kalliokoski

I think I've got the right people in the right Ford's there xD 

[F2CMaDMaXX 607]

So i was already less than impressed by the behaviours of all 3 drivers after the race.  However, that clip could be read two ways.

 

1) Grabbing his wrist and saying something to him, could have been disparaging etc.  Might explain why his brother pushed him away, it sort of appeared like he was holding him down.

2) He was trying to congratulate him and tried to say as such, a loud moment for sure, but it's odd Kevin blanked him and shoved him out the way.

 

It's tough to read for sure, it looks weird to grab the wrist as he's standing up to just give congrats.  But only the two of them (3?) could hear what Bakkerud said, he for sure said something as he grabbed Timmy's wrist.

[bogani 780]

20 hours ago, mats27 said:

I think they have former drivers with the stewards, Rustad this weekend? For the most part penalties come from "Push to pass" or track limits.

Uuuuuu. Track limits. Something for Codies to implement 😉

[James__McAdam 367]

This final will be a infinite debate I think. I am so disappointed for Bakkerud and I think that the Hansen's behavior had to be punished because with this, Gronholm has been able to be first and won, and Bakkerud not to win the title.

It's a question of point of view. I do think that Timmy Hansen has always been too pushy in the past and this final is another proof. I can understand Bakkerud's reaction during the podium. After all, he is human and remembering the begining of the year, he had to battle a lot to find money and be able to make the year. This was not the case for the Hansen's Cartel. But this is a question of point of view. Of course, I respect people who think that the Hansen's move was ok.

BTW, what a great season. Looking forward to the next one, and of course, to the S4 of Dirt rally 2.0 to be able to personally take care of the Hansen's cars... 🐵

[ianism 1,317]

8 hours ago, JamesMcAdam said:

It's a question of point of view. I do think that Timmy Hansen has always been too pushy in the past and this final is another proof. I can understand Bakkerud's reaction during the podium. After all, he is human and remembering the begining of the year, he had to battle a lot to find money and be able to make the year. This was not the case for the Hansen's Cartel. But this is a question of point of view. Of course, I respect people who think that the Hansen's move was ok.

BTW, what a great season. Looking forward to the next one, and of course, to the S4 of Dirt rally 2.0 to be able to personally take care of the Hansen's cars... 🐵

sorry, but T Hansen hasn't been anywhere near as pushy as Bakkerud in the past, but they're both far better than Ekstrom or Block were. I'd go as far to say Hansen has been the victim of more bad luck thanks to being pushed around and mechanical issues at bad times than anyone in World RX other than Liam Doran.

I'm also disappointed Bakkerud didn't win, especially since (aside from the contact) he would have if only Timo hadn't retired. I do think Hansen has been the more consistent driver all year, but the final standings really do reflect how close it was.

as for whether there should have been a penalty or not... I don't know. I think the goal should be to penalize the intent, not the result. in hockey (sorry haha) if you make an illegal hit, you'll get penalized (in theory of course). but the penalty will be worse if the player you hit. I'm not sure that's a good measure though. it should be the intent in my opinion (though I don't think I am qualified to say whether Hansen deserved to be penalized for that).

[richieI 603]

RX is definitely a contact motorsport, paint swapping and driving with your elbows out is not considered as dirty driving so when investigating an incident the outcome has to be crucial for the stewards' judgement. That's why Hansen's 'move' didn't have any consequences. It would've been 100% a penalty if Bakkerud had lost his position and Hansen had flown past, but it was almost game over for him. He was so lucky to win in the end. 

Can't wait to try the new RX track ^^

[James__McAdam 367]

Timmy Hansen has already shown great competencies to be pushy. Remember the last turn with Ekstrom at Holjes in 2015.

The fact that the incident investigation has been asked by Kevin Hansen, shows me how unfair the Hansen's are.

But, again, that's a question of point of view and this story proves again how Rallycross is a beautiful and crazy sport*.

*And Andrew Coley makes the Rallycross even better that he already is.

Edited November 15, 2019 by JamesMcAdam

[F2CMaDMaXX 607]

At this point, i'm more disappointed with the apparent attitude of the Hansens, i just saw the winners press conference and the camera even focused on Bakkerud for a while when Timmy was speaking, shaking his head in disbelief 😞

 

If Timmy had won and commented as he did in the pres conference, only, without the snarky ******-ass comment (comedic style) of flipping round why Bakkerud would be disappointed with the result, i would have more respect for him.  That was just a ****** thing to do IMO, not a winners move and especially when it was as controversial as it was.

 

I really hope Bakkerud comes back, he's one of the nicest guys out there and highly skilled.  Timmy's move was too hard, i think more as a result of the red dust there being far slipperier than regular dirt, and it punted Bakkerud wider and harder, not good for anyone as the resulting over-dramatic crash proved.