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Why does Codemasters leave the games unfinished?

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Good morning, I'm new and it's my first post. The only thing I wanted to ask Codemasters is why they always launch an F1 game without solving the bugs and errors of the previous versions. I think that since its first release, all its F1 games are unfinished with failures that are repeated year after year. Thank you.

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It's their decision to keep releasing games each year and patching an old game doesn't really help the development of the new game (Instead they patch their own current version of F1 2019 I presume). They are definitely not failures from almost any point of view considering they always break into UK's sales charts.

Codemasters' other game ONRUSH was a failure on the other hand. Selling 1k copies on the launch day in the UK. Codemasters Evo is still updating that game even though that happened.

Edited by UP100
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Its the easiest thing to do. Why would they change to finishing games up correctly when people will just pay through the nose for the new release anyways.

Alternatively they don't have the required skills to correct their own engine

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1 hour ago, FRACTURED said:

Alternatively they don't have the required skills to correct their own engine

And I still get confused when people call game code an engine. Otherwise we would have same issues in other Codies' titles.

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15, 16, 17, 18 are the other codies titles with which there have been issues. Does Dirt run on something else?

Unreal Engine, Rage, Frostbite etc etc are other examples of engines.

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39 minutes ago, FRACTURED said:

15, 16, 17, 18 are the other codies titles with which there have been issues. Does Dirt run on something else?

Unreal Engine, Rage, Frostbite etc etc are other examples of engines.

What I don't understand what you're saying... As you (with 99.9% chance) you know, all DiRT 4 was made on EGO3* and DiRT Rally on some earlier EGO engine that F1 used to use before F1 2015. I was just pointing out that I don't think I have ever seen a bug from F1 games be in DiRT games, even though they use the same engine.

*EGO3 is commonly mistaken for EGO 4.0. EGO3 is the engine released in 2015 and used in F1 2015-2018 and DiRT 4.

One of the only non-EGO engine games in recent times (When not talking about gamejam or mobile games) was Micro Machines which used Unity and terrible at that.

Edited by UP100

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I don't play Dirt, never was a fan. That last EGO update I remember WRT F1 games involved someone calling F1 2015 onwards ego 3.5.

I'm not arguing with you or anything, you had said "Otherwise we would have same issues in other Codies' titles."...and I'm pointing out 15-18 have shared many problems. Even issues resolved towards the end of 17 ended up making it into 18. 

For dirt 4 they likely use a completely different branch of the ego engine as there is a lot more to simulate in terms of grip effects on gravel, ice, snow and less to simulate in terms of vehicle dynamics, tyre heating, brake heating etc.

Of course these are all assumptions and Codies could equally come on here and tell us this is not the case.

 

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On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:41 AM, campeonatoror said:

Good morning, I'm new and it's my first post. The only thing I wanted to ask Codemasters is why they always launch an F1 game without solving the bugs and errors of the previous versions. I think that since its first release, all its F1 games are unfinished with failures that are repeated year after year. Thank you.

It comes to the quailty of the code within the engine was first made in 2015 (rush job) what we are experiencing today is far worse compared to what we had when codemasters made their games on the previous consoles with smaller issues. 

Edited by Chromatic

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@Faya Could you please respond. Still so many issues in this game and no response. What is the future support for this game?

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On 2/13/2019 at 7:46 PM, FRACTURED said:

I don't play Dirt, never was a fan. That last EGO update I remember WRT F1 games involved someone calling F1 2015 onwards ego 3.5.

I'm not arguing with you or anything, you had said "Otherwise we would have same issues in other Codies' titles."...and I'm pointing out 15-18 have shared many problems. Even issues resolved towards the end of 17 ended up making it into 18.  

For dirt 4 they likely use a completely different branch of the ego engine as there is a lot more to simulate in terms of grip effects on gravel, ice, snow and less to simulate in terms of vehicle dynamics, tyre heating, brake heating etc.

Of course these are all assumptions and Codies could equally come on here and tell us this is not the case.

 

At that point I'd rather just call the F1 game code as being broken instead of the engine. The engine has done nothing wrong 😢 A new engine won't magically fix anything, it will just mean we'll get another F1 2014 and F1 2015. Codies were known to have major issues with their transfer to EGO3, and also were losing money during that switch to new generation consoles.

I'm not trying to argue with you either. I was just really confused that you seemed to completely ignore Dirt 4 and so on 🙂 Let's both complain about the F1 games' code together! ...but let's leave the engine out of this please?

Basically how Codemasters' engines work at this point:

  • We have absolutely no idea what the previous engine version were and this is irrelevant. WIKIPEDIA IS WRONG in most EGO engine stuff.
  • Current engine version is EGO3, used in F1 games since F1 2015 and additionally used in DiRT 4 and the upcoming DiRT Rally 2.0.
  • ONRUSH (Codemasters Evolution Studios' game) uses their own, ONRUSH specific engine. It borrows some stuff from EGO and I believe it was planned that the other teams would incorporate the new features back to the current EGO3.
  • The latest full game that wasn't developed with Codies' own engine was Micro Machines: World Series which was created on Unity. It was reported to have terrible performance while being a generally worse game. A year before Micro Machines, Toybox Turbos was released, basically being the "better Micro Machines". It also had support for VR and it was made on the old EGO engine.
  • DiRT Rally 2.0 will be the first EGO3 game to include VR when the Oculus VR support is released in Summer.
  • EGO3 is mistaken for EGO 4.0 because of some media posts in 2015, and for the fact that someone typed EGO 4.0 to wikipedia at some point.

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Its because their business model does not make sense to continue to support the games while at the end of its seasonal release. Its that simple. Think about it. They release a new game every single year. If you are a CEO of a gaming company, and you make decisions based on a few things, one of them is cost. Do you put resources on a sunsetting game, when in a few months, another release of the same game is coming?? No, you allocate resources to the next game. Makes sense, right? 

As you all know, games are so so so complex, and as a result, this "yearly release model" doesn't work anymore. Its half baked, and when Codemasters has sole rights to F1 License as the "official game," it's quite unfair to diminish competition due to this legal agreement. Lets be honest, the game will continue to be half baked, unless they steer away from this yearly model. Software as a Service or release it like Forza or something. 

In other words, we need to stop asking for patches. The next "patch" is F1 2019. We need to stop asking for additional stuff, because do you really think they can add any other needed or cool functionality? No, because they haven't perfected the basic foundation of a working game.

Do you think they care? No. Its a business with tight resources with no willingness to change to support a HUGE OPPORTUNITY to increase revenue (eSports Sponsorships, Subscriptions and etc...). Its unfortunate, because its like seeing one of our friends doing something so so so stupid, you try to help and they will not listen. 

I love F1. It comes to a close second to my family. I have been crazy about the sport since I was 4. So, I am stuck to deal with this BS and feel compelled to write this because I am passionate about this game, the sport and I know Codemasters has it in them.... They need to change and they have an opportunity to do so. Sad. 

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If it does have an engine, its a 2015 Honda, and the chassis is the 2017 McLaren.

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5 hours ago, ShelbyUSA said:

Codemasters has sole rights to F1 License as the "official game,"

Hutch also has a license to develop an F1 game, and they have announced an F1 manager coming to App Store in the future.

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On 2/13/2019 at 8:41 AM, campeonatoror said:

Good morning, I'm new and it's my first post. The only thing I wanted to ask Codemasters is why they always launch an F1 game without solving the bugs and errors of the previous versions. I think that since its first release, all its F1 games are unfinished with failures that are repeated year after year. Thank you.

"Software is never finished; it is only abandoned."

 

dt171002.gif

Edited by scottishwildcat

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as uncle Chopper used to say... "Caaaaaash"

serveimage.jpg

Edited by Coanda
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13 hours ago, FRACTURED said:

Codemasters done themselves a mischief

Quote

"off ya go mate, off too the sickbay..."

 

Edited by Coanda

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I don’t think any of you have ever tried programming at all.  It is extremely complex and changing one bit of code can have unexpected results somewhere else.  Then when you multiply that by loads of different departments and different programmers it is easy to see how when one person alters something it can have an unexpected result somewhere else maybe even affecting a different department who are then confused as to how that happened as they didn’t change that section of code.  constantly patching code can introduce new problems as well and make one aspect better and another worse.  What I’m not so forgiving for is when they make a new game and somehow old issues they have previously patched in old games come back as new glitches in the new game.  If it has been patched in an old game then that means they established the fault in the code and fixed it.  Yet they seem to forget that they have to fix this in the new game.  I think it is because they start working on the new game as soon as the old one is ready (2 weeks before launch) use massive sections of the old code but they don’t work on the patches for the game when it comes out.  So another department fixes the game and then somehow the communication between the department that patched the game and the departments who are coding the new game breaks down, resulting in old glitches in the new game.  The beta testing that I have been a part of the last couple of years also needs to be made available earlier and probably less people involved at first and adding more at later stages.  I think generally Codemasters do seem to be making a better game each year and seem to be learning from previous mistakes.  

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5 hours ago, Acerees said:

I don’t think any of you have ever tried programming at all

you would be wrong about that ;)

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31 minutes ago, Coanda said:

you would be wrong about that 😉

What is with that wink though?

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What I find very sad is that Codemasters never explain their failures and do not give explanations of the solutions they give for those failures. I do not see Codemasters present in this forum, it does not want to face its failures, I do not understand it.

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History shows there may be one last patch. It won't solve everything. 

It's the things that don't change that are frustrating. So much of the data is the same. How many tracks have changed since 2015 (first iteration with the current engine)? And for example, track limits detection is not improved or modified.

2015

Mexico added, Singapore modified (Sling T11-13 reprofiled)

McLaren changed to Honda, Lotus to Mercedes

Driver changes are labels (with maybe a skill level) 2 moved and 3 were new (late season changes were not reflected in the game)

2016

Azerbaijan added and Germany re-added

Haas added, Lotus became and switched to Renault, Toro Rosso switch to Ferrari, Marussia becomes Manor and switch to Mercedes

Driver changes 3 drivers moved (including an old driver returning) and 2 were added (there were more changes not reflected in the game)

2017

Germany removed (no tracks added)

Toro Rosso switch back to Renault, Sauber switch to Ferrari

Driver changes 5 drivers moved, 1 added

2018

France added, Malaysia removed and Germany re-added

McLaren switch to Renault, Toro Rosso switch to Honda

Driver changes 4 drivers moved, 1 added

Very few changes.

Things that do not work

The only thing that changes are the regulations, but the safety car was omitted from 2015 and has not worked properly (including the VSC) in any release, ever. ERS has been in the sport since 2014 but only finally under driver control in 2018. Short qualifying has been modified to be based on Q1. AI do not follow strategy or react logically to weather often exhibiting impossible strategies (no stops, illegal tyre choice) they also are either too passive or too aggressive. They also have scripted qualifying times and engage in blocking during qualifying. Game engine performance is inconsistent depending on game mode and track.

Incremental improvements 

Online practice added and AI sliding difficulty level (2016?) 

Manual starts, Time of Day, Virtual Safety Car & Formation Lap added (2016)

Spectator Mode enhanced and Esports (2017 via patch)

Beta access has been possible by selection / approval since F1 2016, but the beta game bears no relation to the current development branch as far as I can see.

This is not an exhaustive list

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