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More sim or arcade is a toxic resolution

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Yeah, racing video game fan should stop using this term, because it is incredible misleading.

Nowadays all racing games are some sort of sim. The term simulation doesn't mean realistic handling, but more about physic being calculated by math for various parts of the physic model(inertia of the mass, aero dynamic, tire flex, temp, engine temp, traction layout, suspension geometry, etc.). Even if all number, formula are deeply wrong, it is still called a sim in a nutshell.

https://youtu.be/Xz8RRxYwrhg

Obviously there will be model that hardly simulate anything that much relevant & have a more realistic driving model.

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It is simply a means of categorising the level of simulation, something like iRacing is a more in depth driving simulator than something like Forza. People understand more sim is greater simulation, more arcade is lesser. Don't see an issue personally.

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So you can’t call anything a sim unless it is absolutely 100% correct to real life? Can’t wait until Dirt Rally 123.0 when they’ve finally nailed it and can call it a sim

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To me 'simulation' and 'arcade' have become 'empty' words because many people seem to be using them completely randomly. Especially 'arcade' has become some kind of weapon for haters to discredit titles they don't like. In many cases this kind of 'criticism' is just unfounded nonsense and should be treated as such by just ignoring it. 

I've noticed that many people think that a racing simulation, especially in circuit racing, should be hard to drive and kill you right at the first corner, and that's plain wrong. Driving race cars is not difficult. They're built to make it as easy as possible for the drivers to get as fast as possible around a track. They're stuffed with modern tech, aerodynamics make sure they're planted and glued to the track. I think that narrative comes primarily from 'seasoned simracers' who are stuck in the past where tech was not up to the task and titles failed to simulate things properly. 

I remember a video with Christina and Paul explaining that the unpredictability in Dirt Rally came from a primitive way to simulate things. By simulating things more properly they found out that cars became more stable, and that makes totally sense. Anyone who's seen how Ott Tänak smashes that Yaris through the stages knows what I'm talking about. 

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The word "arcade" is nowadays used to flack something you don't like. 

A game can still be a sim, even if it's its doing a pretty bad job. 

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To me its not just about handling.

Project Cars to me is a sim but its carried the worst things that I would want in a sim (social media ttrolls, limited championship, awful engine sounds, tyres that behave as marbles.)

Grand Prix 4 is a Sim because although its physics were not great it gave the best AI i've ever seen in a racing game, telemetry tools, setups, in race 22 player hotseats, full FIA WC license and tracks, pitstops, tyres, tutorials, damage, component failrues etc.

Dirt Rally is a sim because its got accurate camber and crests in roads, no repeat sections, accurate sounds, long distance stages, day/night/weather, Damage, performance difference between cars etc.

There are some games though that diverge too far from the real world to be called a sim or dont offer enough real world items. There are also some games that take too much of the bad from the world and dont offer enough of the joy. Then there comes games like The Crew 2, Test Drive unlimited etc. These games have really poor driving models i would rank in the same league as Mario Kart 8D. BUT they the engine sounds, they have big open worlds, weather effects, night and day time transitions, a financial model.

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The times of buying a racing game without it being labeled anything, and you just had a bunch of fun with it.... :classic_rolleyes:

I honestly dont give a hoot about the 'Labels', if i tend to like the gameplay, ill just buy it.

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Nowdays these terms are usually used in very wide variety of ways (even by the devs), but I think correct separation should be between Sim and a Game. While developing a Sim, devs would try to come up with most realistic driving model possible with no exceptions and while developing a game, devs might try to make a realistic game, but still make it easyer to drive the car so that you wouldn't have to acquire skills of a pro racing driver to be good (this is the case with Dirt, Project Cars, Grand Turismo, Forza etc.), or just make a plane arcade where it is obviously not pretending to be realistic. Also people are often arguing about Dirt being a sim and comparing it to RBR, but I think if Codies would give a honest answer, they'd confirm that they weren't trying to make a hardcore sim.      

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 3:34 PM, richie said:

I've noticed that many people think that a racing simulation, especially in circuit racing, should be hard to drive and kill you right at the first corner, and that's plain wrong.

It is true & not really true, if it's in a videogame form.

You can't feel the G in games, so you're more likely to insert too much input that you shouldn't do, thus resulting easy oversteer or heavy understeer. People who actually care to look at the telemetry over placebo value are right in a way about it should be hard to drive. In many simulator you can easily floor it & mash the brake while turning at the same time.

What doesn't make sense is when oversteer is hard to catch or the car keep curving while understeering when carrying too much speed(it plow straight, it doesn't progressively turn less).

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16 hours ago, LittleApple said:

Dirt Rally is a sim because its got accurate camber and crests in roads, no repeat sections, accurate sounds, long distance stages, day/night/weather, Damage, performance difference between cars etc.

All of those things could just as well be in an arcade. I still think it's more about handling.

In a sim the cars should handle as close to the real thing as possible i.e. the braking distances should be roughly the same, it should understeer if you try to take a corner too fast etc. so if you take the same car on the same track in two different sims, the results should be roughly the same.

Arcades are usually made to be easier to drive and have simplified driving models, that wouldn't be possible in the real world i.e a lot higher grip so you can take corners ar stupid speeds

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