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ffb fixed, some comms from devs

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Laserjones said:

Okay, so it looks like Codies are not monitoring this post ... really sad. :classic_sad: Their community management needs some improvement in my opinion.

Meanwhile I made some more observations on my real-life car regarding the amount of road surface feedback. Actually there is a lot of it. Even on smooth tarmac that is in good shape, I can feel not only tiny bumps in the road surface that are not even visible, but also a constant vibration from the surface material (which changes with the type of tarmac I drive on). This can be felt not only through the chassis, as some people claimed here, but also directly through the wheel. I observed this very carefully and focused on the actual feeling in my hands, independent of body feelings and sound. Of course, a part of the vibration probably comes from the engine, too. But not all of it, otherwise it would not change with the surface type.

Bottom line: Road surface (and engine) vibration felt through the wheel is an actual and factual phenomenon, even on tarmac, and should therefore be simulated as fully as possible.

100%

I did the same, and fact is, without any additional forces being applied (cornering, braking, accelerating etc.), just moving in a straight line on smooth tarmac I can feel road noise and tire contact...and I drive a crappy car to boot, lol

Now, imagine driving a Rally car. 😳

It is completely unthinkable how this:

1) Was designed this way

2) Got through QC

3) We are being told that a ‘large’ (?) number of players like the FFB

4) Some people on this forum, and others, can actually defend it and say its acceptable

5) We go weeks without so much as a peep when the OVERWHELMING sentiment is unfavourable and your Community, (your fans, your customers, your patrons), are fading by the day.

I know a fix is in the works, but it never should have been this bad to begin with, and Codies adopting the ‘no news’ strategy is clearly inciting the masses. 

Throw us a bone! How is it coming along? ETA for new code to be tested by some of the community on various platforms/wheels?

In this case - silence is not golden - it’s annoying.

Edited by Buckwilder
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even Dirt Rally gets its fair share here...

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2019 at 11:44 AM, Laserjones said:

Meanwhile I got feedback from a guy on Facebook who is using a CSW V2.5 with 918 RSR rim and did some detailed testing after I had asked for it. He found that he is "feeling vibration. Just enough to know there is a surface under the tyres. Also feel landing if i get 4 off over a crest or jump, weight transfer feels good plus other effects such as collision, cattle grid etc."

So this seems to be proof that there actually are users who are getting the (continuous) road surface feedback that so many users are missing.

Also, I got feedback from someone who is using the same wheel (T300RS) on two different platforms. He wrote: "Yesterday, I played Dirt Rally 2.0 both on my PC and PS4. On PS4 my T300RS wheel felt superb, excellent FFB (the wheel’s fans were hoovering all the time and I almost began sweating as I was working the wheel). On PC the fans in the wheel didn’t engage, not even once. The feel on the wheel was ”empty” and non-responsive, hardly any force in the FFB."

I knew i wasnt the only one.. I really couldnt be as quick as i am without a decent feel of ffb.. theres a good feel of weight transition, bumps and  light rumble through different  road surfaces and impacts are fine as well. this is after i tweaked settings to my liking. But unfortunately others here say thats definetely not true.. so obviously im full of s..t and really have no idea after 15 years of sim racing and ffb experience. at least thats the opinion of some part of the community over here. Could ffb be just rightly implemented for standard ps4 and doesnt work well on pro? i dont know.. does PC perhaps have most of these issues?.. could there be a diffrence in wheel brand software/firmware? Does a Thrustmaster wheel work right on a xbox one X but not on standard.. who knows. But those things arent questioned here.. its just at codemasters end to fix it (which it is dont get mne wrong) , but maybe there's more to it than meets the eye. thing is the reactions here are almost hostile. its like.. i dont have good ffb so you cant have it period.. so yeah.. lets get the laughing emoticons out again! im used to it now..

Edited by thatDutchguy83
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@Laserjones any chance you could post a pic of your latest settings for PS4 others to try. Been quite happy with mine, but there's always room for improvement.🍻

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7 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

I know a fix is in the works,

Good. I'm not sure they will ever relase a fix.

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Posted (edited)

I have been playing around with the FFB settings as wel. Even though the information coming through the steering wheel isn't enough, it does give me just about enough information to know what the car is doing. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't give me the info the way I would like to receive it but I manage for now.
The following question is just a question so don't go all loony on me. How many of those complaining and scolding have actually spent time fiddling with the FFB settings in order to find that personal sweet spot that gives you at least some acceptable FFB? (Trying a few things out for about 15 min. or copying other people's settings doesn't count)

Edited by SimVansevenant
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The title of the thread needs changed/updated.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Kembro said:

@Laserjones any chance you could post a pic of your latest settings for PS4 others to try. Been quite happy with mine, but there's always room for improvement.🍻

I'm on PC, not PS4 ... And so far I could not find settings that are really satisfactory for me. I can play the game, and wheel turning forces work fine. But as said before, there's no road texture feedback at all, except when there are major bumps or cattle grids.

@thatDutchguy83 – Your settings might be more helpful here.

(How can I mark a user name so that it appears in red as my name above?)

Edited by Laserjones

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

100%

I did the same, and fact is, without any additional forces being applied (cornering, braking, accelerating etc.), just moving in a straight line on smooth tarmac I can feel road noise and tire contact...and I drive a crappy car to boot, lol

Now, imagine driving a Rally car. 😳

It is completely unthinkable how this:

1) Was designed this way

2) Got through QC

3) We are being told that a ‘large’ (?) number of players like the FFB

4) Some people on this forum, and others, can actually defend it and say its acceptable

5) We go weeks without so much as a peep when the OVERWHELMING sentiment is unfavourable and your Community, (your fans, your customers, your patrons), are fading by the day.

I know a fix is in the works, but it never should have been this bad to begin with, and Codies adopting the ‘no news’ strategy is clearly inciting the masses. 

Throw us a bone! How is it coming along? ETA for new code to be tested by some of the community on various platforms/wheels?

In this case - silence is not golden - it’s annoying.

What happened to companies simply taking care of their customers?  Just about any product you buy today - if you are not satisfied you can get your money back - most companies realize its better to make the problem go away than have people unhappy/complaining.  Why should this be any different with a video game?  There are many of us who do NOT feel we got what we paid for - but we're expected to just suck it up and throw $83 down the toilet?  I think its unconscionable that CM has not given us the product we expected and has done little to provide a solution (either fix it or refund).  It's just not good business.  

If I could have played the game as it sits today before I paid $83 for it ... I would NOT have bought it.  

Edited by Hub67
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@Laserjones thanks, misread your post. It was the person you had spoken too that has the PS. Just chuck @ in front of their name to tag them.🍻

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Hi all, as we've previously, we're still looking into this - as soon as we have an update on this, you'll all be first to know. As a lot of users have mentioned, there are different levels of feedback about the FFB - some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want, but we know they're unhappy with it - so there's a lot of investigative work, tinkering and testing to be done. As soon as we're confident that we've got something more in-line with DiRT Rally's feel, we're planning on testing it with some of you - but I can't say when that will be yet! It all depends on how the work goes. It's not an easy job - it will affect all platforms, peripherals, surfaces, cars and disciplines - so whatever we bring, it *needs* to be thoroughly investigated and implemented. 

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@ChristinaMc : thanks for the information. Good to know you read us. Do you manage to put some default settings of the ffb according to the platform and wheel used ? imo this will allow the players to start with a well spotted ffb and to slighty tweak around it, instead of loosing they time to try a lot of combinations between the sliders. Actually the basic player (the one who knows nothing about ffb) starts with all sliders to 100, and the ffb is terrible like that. I'm not sure a lot of people have time and patience to search the sweet ffb spot during hours. They just play the game as you deliver it. So it will make sense to propose a base ffb setting for the 3 platforms and the few popular wheels. That's not a huge job, and it will permit to the majority to enjoy better this game.

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Posted (edited)

merci de votre réponse mais le problème est réel.faite vite  j,ai un csl elite ps4   pas vraiment de retour d,information de la route

Edited by AlainMegane
ereur traduction

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1 hour ago, ChristinaMc said:

Hi all, as we've previously, we're still looking into this - as soon as we have an update on this, you'll all be first to know. As a lot of users have mentioned, there are different levels of feedback about the FFB - some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want, but we know they're unhappy with it - so there's a lot of investigative work, tinkering and testing to be done. As soon as we're confident that we've got something more in-line with DiRT Rally's feel, we're planning on testing it with some of you - but I can't say when that will be yet! It all depends on how the work goes. It's not an easy job - it will affect all platforms, peripherals, surfaces, cars and disciplines - so whatever we bring, it *needs* to be thoroughly investigated and implemented. 

Sounds like its a mile away. We paid full price for early access right?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ChristinaMc said:

there are different levels of feedback about the FFB - some are happy with it

Thanks for your reply but I'm not happy with this kind of answer. I'm losing my trust on your company.

Edited by RallyLover19
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1 hour ago, ChristinaMc said:

Hi all, as we've previously, we're still looking into this - as soon as we have an update on this, you'll all be first to know. As a lot of users have mentioned, there are different levels of feedback about the FFB - some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want, but we know they're unhappy with it - so there's a lot of investigative work, tinkering and testing to be done. As soon as we're confident that we've got something more in-line with DiRT Rally's feel, we're planning on testing it with some of you - but I can't say when that will be yet! It all depends on how the work goes. It's not an easy job - it will affect all platforms, peripherals, surfaces, cars and disciplines - so whatever we bring, it *needs* to be thoroughly investigated and implemented. 

Huzzah, she speaks!

Thank you Christina, great to hear you guys are still supporting the game with fixes. We were getting a bit worried, perhaps paranoid but that is the state of affairs when you love rally like nothing else on the planet 🙂

May I suggest that you could do a great deal of morale boosting for this site, if you set up a sticky with a regular update on things. Nobody else posting there, just you (and other Codies devs/staff). Just to give us baying hounds a little feed now and then. Cheerio

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ChristinaMc said:

Hi all, as we've previously, we're still looking into this - as soon as we have an update on this, you'll all be first to know. As a lot of users have mentioned, there are different levels of feedback about the FFB - some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want, but we know they're unhappy with it - so there's a lot of investigative work, tinkering and testing to be done. As soon as we're confident that we've got something more in-line with DiRT Rally's feel, we're planning on testing it with some of you - but I can't say when that will be yet! It all depends on how the work goes. It's not an easy job - it will affect all platforms, peripherals, surfaces, cars and disciplines - so whatever we bring, it *needs* to be thoroughly investigated and implemented. 

Sigh. More PR stalling, not that I should have expected anything else.

As we only hear from you (or anyone at the Dirt team) once every two weeks, allow us to break down and understand what you have (not) provided here.

1) You'll keep us updated... by providing no actual information? Same as two weeks ago.

2) "some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want" - Oh ok, so your customers are 1) happy 2) mostly happy or 3) unhappy clueless idiots. Thanks.

3) "there's a lot of investigative work, tinkering and testing to be done." - Yes, I'm sure there is. Can you tell us ANY of the results so far? You've had literally FIVE weeks since release, how can you not even demonstrate you understand the problem? Remember... "as soon as we have an update on this, you'll all be first to know."

4) Two weeks ago you said "We’ll continue to keep you informed of our progress". Is this you informing us that you have made exactly no progress in two weeks?

5) "we're planning on testing it with some of you" - Who? What is your selection criteria? How long is the test? How does one get involved? Why can't this be a test for everyone (let's face it, we're already testing the game).

6) "It's not an easy job" - So it's either so broken that it requires a massive effort to fix, or you knew it had a mountain of work left in development to get it right but released the game anyway. Honestly, how difficult it is for you - Codemasters - to make good on the promise and product you sold your customers is NOT YOUR CUSTOMERS PROBLEM.

7) "whatever we bring, it *needs* to be thoroughly investigated and implemented." - I think most people would say that was the *minimum* standard for going gold and releasing your game, you know, before you accepted payment for goods delivered.

Edited by JesseDeya
Dumb typo.
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Posted (edited)

So true!!!

Loud and clear mentioned!

Just a sticky mentioned in the post above for all the progress is made would be fantastic !

She/they responding nowhere to questions or requests from me as well.

I send email, insta ,fb to them but never got an answer back. We are the customers for godsake.

Edited by MarkHam207
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@ChristinaMc Thank you for confirming your presence. I assume that you are under strict orders as to what you are are (or aren't) allowed to say. So please don't take this personal, you are probably a bit between the lines of fire, which may be frustrating for you, too. But maybe you can talk to Product Management and Development and try to get some more meaningful information out of them, because what you wrote above is basically the same as what you wrote weeks ago.

It would be great if we could get at least something technical like: "So far, we can confirm that some users unexpectedly don't get road texture vibration, and this seems to be related to [...]" or "Indeed we had decided to greatly reduce road texture vibration because of [...], but it seems that it is now below the threshold on many wheels, which we only found out after release, because [...]" You see what I mean. As I wrote before, it's not just about taste or a desire for a different kind of experience. It's about a missing essential functionality. This can't be the way it was planned by you, i.e. not simply the result of a design decision, but there has not been any acknowledgement of this so far. It's not a shame to admit a mistake. It's a sign of integrity and customer orientation.

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6 hours ago, ChristinaMc said:

some are happy with it, some want some tweaking, and some people we're not sure what they want, but we know they're unhappy with it

That's an interesting statement. Actually I find it not so hard to recognize what the affected users want, because almost all of them are complaining about the same thing: the complete lack of road texture feedback (i.e. the continuous vibration that one should get from the road surface material). This is the only major thing that is missing. Everything else can be adjusted with the existing sliders.

The only other things I read complaints about are the fact that some parameters are greyed out and the lack of on-screen explanations as to what the parameters mean.

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More smoke and mirrors.

CM still refuse to except two thirds are not happy with FFB even with the poll on there own forum.

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4 hours ago, JesseDeya said:

5) "we're planning on testing it with some of you" - Who? What is your selection criteria? How long is the test? How does one get involved? Why can't this be a test for everyone (let's face it, we're already testing the game).

No offense meant to those people, but I hope it's not the same ones here from the forum who were "selected" for pre-release testing, because they all missed the FFB issues in the first place...

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50 minutes ago, Laserjones said:

@ChristinaMc Thank you for confirming your presence. I assume that you are under strict orders as to what you are are (or aren't) allowed to say. So please don't take this personal, you are probably a bit between the lines of fire, which may be frustrating for you, too. But maybe you can talk to Product Management and Development and try to get some more meaningful information out of them, because what you wrote above is basically the same as what you wrote weeks ago.

It would be great if we could get at least something technical like: "So far, we can confirm that some users unexpectedly don't get road texture vibration, and this seems to be related to [...]" or "Indeed we had decided to greatly reduce road texture vibration because of [...], but it seems that it is now below the threshold on many wheels, which we only found out after release, because [...]" You see what I mean. As I wrote before, it's not just about taste or a desire for a different kind of experience. It's about a missing essential functionality. This can't be the way it was planned by you, i.e. not simply the result of a design decision, but there has not been any acknowledgement of this so far. It's not a shame to admit a mistake. It's a sign of integrity and customer orientation.

Very well said.

You have far more patience and evidently more manners than me, but I think we long for the same thing, a DR 2.0 that we can finally enjoy playing.

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11 minutes ago, ShodanCat said:

No offense meant to those people, but I hope it's not the same ones here from the forum who were "selected" for pre-release testing, because they all missed the FFB issues in the first place...

No, the ones here on the forums actually had a completely different handling model that they tested in beta on their stripped down builds. Something changed between then and the actual gold product build, and you can see most of the testers say something about it on launch day.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Spacepadrille said:

@ChristinaMc : thanks for the information. Good to know you read us. Do you manage to put some default settings of the ffb according to the platform and wheel used ? imo this will allow the players to start with a well spotted ffb and to slighty tweak around it, instead of loosing they time to try a lot of combinations between the sliders. Actually the basic player (the one who knows nothing about ffb) starts with all sliders to 100, and the ffb is terrible like that. I'm not sure a lot of people have time and patience to search the sweet ffb spot during hours. They just play the game as you deliver it. So it will make sense to propose a base ffb setting for the 3 platforms and the few popular wheels. That's not a huge job, and it will permit to the majority to enjoy better this game.

Yeah, a default drivable FFB setup would be nice for all the reasons you stated. It's in this kind of things where the game can be more noob-friendly.

Edited by Riggs
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