Tyre life and Running order

[mickeeiemouse]

hello folks, happy friday

 

after spending all night last nights live steam trying to figure out tyre wear, i thought id ask the question here

so, on dry gravel, soft tyre, how many miles before it goes off?

now, if i choose the same stage/tyre combo but wet surface, will the tyre last longer? infact, does road condition(wet/dry) affect the tyre wear in any way? does cooler wetter conditions help maintain grip for a longer period or does the extra slip actually wear the tyre out quicker?

it would be nice for codemasters to come out and tell us how long each tyre is supposed to last at a certain speed.

if we say... take stage A, if its completed between 3:40 and 3:50 you will get about X miles in tyre life?

is than making any sense? i hope so hahahaa

 

right, next, running order

1st on the road in dry gravel should result in more tyre wear and slower times as your cleaning the surface for everyone else, however, is this reversed for wet stages?

starting 1st should be an advantage in wet conditions(gravel) is it modeled like this ingame? any ideas?

 

hope to see yall on the stages this weekend folks, this game is EPIC!!!!! addicted big time hahahaa

 

MM

[mickeeiemouse]

im back, with the 1st of alot of incoming info

 

right, chose the same stage 8x in a rally, with service after each stage to check the tyres

1st group of four stages were wet driven with soft tyres

2nd group of four stages were dry driven with soft tyres

australia stage was chosen, 4.3 miles (cant remember the name, good mix of slow and fast stuff)

 

in both conditions the tyre was pretty much fine upto about 16 miles, there was no drop off in performance (times) with all 4 runs within 3 seconds of each other, the last run actually being the fastest but i could feel the tyre going slightly off at this point

 

at each service the tyre just shown as 'used' but after the 4th stage the indicator was showning badly worn and required changing, although, as i say, they'd just set fastest time ha

next step will be to test the tyres on a heavy gravel surface(argentina)  and see how long the softs hold out

 

sorry if im boring the t1t5 off anyone but i needed to know hahahahaa 😉

 

MM

[Johnliwing]

Very helpful. You are doing CM's job testing this.

There should be tutorial or explaining in game rather than some vague videos on ytb.

[mickeeiemouse]

hello again folks

 

after running the same test on argentina, (5x 3.25 mile stage) after 4 runs the tyres were still showing as 'USED' however, i could feel the tyre was losing grip under braking, funny thing was, there still seemed to be more grip than the hard tyres which i ran on the 5th stage to see if there was any difference in the feel, i had alot more offs on the hard tyre.

so at 13 miles the tyre was showing as 'used' im pretty sure that would have changed to 'worn' after the 5th stage(16 miles), but there would have been no way of knowing this as stage 5 was the last to run, and no service after. all this seems to be pretty much inline with the australia results

 

ill be honest, i couldnt go off the stage times as many mistakes were made, but going off what the game is telling us in the service menu and going off feel alone now, the soft tyres seem to last same amount of time irrespective of gravel type, and gave the same feeling as the results in Australia, however, ill be doing some practice on Argentina so i can re-run with accurate timings.

 

it would also appear that no difference in tyre wear between wet and dry conditions

 

i did get 3 punctures with the soft tyre on argentina but they were the result of a heavy off on all occasions, i dont think the hard tyre would have saved the puncture.

 

so, ill be doing probably poland next, if results are the same, then its safe to say that unless theres 6x long stages without service, the hard tyre is useless, and theres not much point to the medium, so maybe something for codies to work on in the future.

for me, the soft should be a tyre used in wet conditions or short sprint stages, with the medium as back up for longer stages

the medium tyre should be the go to tyre for drier conditions with the hard coming in for once again longer stage mileage between sevices

id also like the option to run with 4x medium and 2x soft(or hard) as spare, so grip could be mixed up abit and adding more depth to the rally itself

 

off to poland

 

MM

 

extra info : tests were run in group A subaru for Argentina and Group A escort for Australia. iv no idea if weight or drive train layout will alter the results, both the escort and impreza are similar weight and power with same drive train layout.

 

[bn880]

Ugh ,  miles...  I just cant  😄

[mickeeiemouse]

coming back to this

 

an Audi Quattro group B destroyed a set of soft tyres at the 12 mile mark on australia(worn surface), service shown that tyres needed changing.

so the softs only last for 2 short stages, a short and a long and you'll probably be out of rubber on gravel(in group B)

 

the tests continue ha

 

MM

[StockTunesOnly]

6 hours ago, mickeeiemouse said:

an Audi Quattro group B destroyed a set of soft tyres

You say destroyed, but what level of deterioration did you see? Was it just the graphic at the service stop saying it? Did you actually blow out a tire because of it? Did you ever feel the performance drop?

 

I ask this because I'm a firm believer (right now at least) that unless you are running 4+ Sprints or 3+ Longs you should always run softs. I've made it 4 stages with what felt like minimal or even no performance drop off. I actually just did a 2 Longs in a row during my last Elite event with softs and they felt 100% fine after the 2nd Long - but in the service stop it was showing "used" and saying it needed to be replaced.

 

I would love to get more info about the tire wear, it could be such an awesome mechanic but it feels so... pointless right now outside of custom championships where you are running 6 stages between stops.

 

Another HUGE question i have for anyone willing to put in the time - does cutting corners cause the tires to degrade faster??? I've been meaning to test it by doing something like New England and trying to drive an entire stage off of the road, on the shoulder/through the grass to see if the tire is much worse by the end of it. It could really make a big impact on longer events where corner cutting hurts softs more than mediums.

[nbates66]

If you're going to do this sort of thing shouldn't you also be comparing stage section times between compounds to see if tyre heating is taken into account? Information in first two posts is kinda useless since there's no mention of what was driven, Day/night may need to be taken into account as well.

[Rallystu2]

Yea I don't feel like tyre wear is dynamically modelled. I think it's just based on a number of stages. I would always pick mediums when a long stage was present on the next loop, however now it appears the softs will last, so there's no reason not to select softs, especially since there's no serious limit to numbers of sets one can use. The number of sets usually directly corresponds to the amount of stage loops.

[Dscru]

Anyone have suggestions on when to choose wet tyres (Spain)?

I've had a few stages pop up where the longer 1st stage is dry, and the 2nd shorter one is wet. I'm not sure if it's the durability of wets, or that the AI times are so fast on wet stages, but I'm not really competing at all (on Elite).

For now I'm just choosing soft if the stage ratio is 2:1 in favour of dry. Anything less I'll go wets.

[cjr3559]

5 hours ago, Dscru said:

Anyone have suggestions on when to choose wet tyres (Spain)?

I've had a few stages pop up where the longer 1st stage is dry, and the 2nd shorter one is wet. I'm not sure if it's the durability of wets, or that the AI times are so fast on wet stages, but I'm not really competing at all (on Elite).

For now I'm just choosing soft if the stage ratio is 2:1 in favour of dry. Anything less I'll go wets.

The only thing I’ve noticed with wet tires on dry tarmac is a definite grip increase and the car tends to push.  Wets appear to be relatively durable as their soft/medium counterparts even on dry but I really haven’t tried pushing them to the max yet.

For me it depends on the amount of kms and the forecasted conditions on which tires to choose.  It’s easier drive with wet tires on dry surfaces than dry tires on wet surfaces, but I tend to prefer a tighter setup.

[Riggs]

After some hours of gameplay, I would like to suggest that the soft tyre should wear faster. I think the soft tyre atm is a little bit too durable (can take 2 long stages and only be on Used state). Right now there's no point in using the Hard compound and I barely use the Medium now.

Softs should only be usable for like 1 long stage before getting to the Worn state where it starts to slip really bad. Either that, or make the wear proportional to the number of stages in between services. I'm using the scenario: Service, Stage, Stage, Service.

[DozUK]

To me, especially coming from track based sim's having tyre options and tuning section without the option to play with tyre pressures make it all a bit pointless. The tyre is the most important tuning option, it connects the car/driver to the road and can drastically effect the handling with regard to rubber and track temperatures.

Even if you know sod all about tuning, finding the sweet spot with tyre pressures can make a huge difference.

Great game, loving it but they gone half **** with regard to tyres  

[Riggs]

I know where you're coming from, but tyre pressure isn't really the most important in rally. It has more to do with grip and durability from Hard to Soft and it's the wear that play the big role here. So adding tyre pressure wouldn't really add much to the experience and it'd be waste of work hours. We could argue it could have some play in tarmac events, but still.

[DozUK]

2 hours ago, Riggs said:

I know where you're coming from, but tyre pressure isn't really the most important in rally. It has more to do with grip and durability from Hard to Soft and it's the wear that play the big role here. So adding tyre pressure wouldn't really add much to the experience and it'd be waste of work hours. We could argue it could have some play in tarmac events, but still.

Fair point

 

On 3/16/2019 at 11:45 PM, CatBadders said:

You say destroyed, but what level of deterioration did you see? Was it just the graphic at the service stop saying it? Did you actually blow out a tire because of it? Did you ever feel the performance drop?

 

I ask this because I'm a firm believer (right now at least) that unless you are running 4+ Sprints or 3+ Longs you should always run softs. I've made it 4 stages with what felt like minimal or even no performance drop off. I actually just did a 2 Longs in a row during my last Elite event with softs and they felt 100% fine after the 2nd Long - but in the service stop it was showing "used" and saying it needed to be replaced.

 

I would love to get more info about the tire wear, it could be such an awesome mechanic but it feels so... pointless right now outside of custom championships where you are running 6 stages between stops.

 

Another HUGE question i have for anyone willing to put in the time - does cutting corners cause the tires to degrade faster??? I've been meaning to test it by doing something like New England and trying to drive an entire stage off of the road, on the shoulder/through the grass to see if the tire is much worse by the end of it. It could really make a big impact on longer events where corner cutting hurts softs more than mediums.

 

Hopefully the UDP telemetry output should shed some light on this. Unfortunately I play on console and it doesn't look like they've included it for some reason which is a big shame

 

 

[TheCulac]

11 hours ago, DozUK said:

Fair point

 

 

Hopefully the UDP telemetry output should shed some light on this. Unfortunately I play on console and it doesn't look like they've included it for some reason which is a big shame

 

 

Sadly, UDP telemetry has no data on tire wear, zero.

[bn880]

On 3/17/2019 at 7:22 PM, Riggs said:

After some hours of gameplay, I would like to suggest that the soft tyre should wear faster. I think the soft tyre atm is a little bit too durable (can take 2 long stages and only be on Used state). Right now there's no point in using the Hard compound and I barely use the Medium now.

Softs should only be usable for like 1 long stage before getting to the Worn state where it starts to slip really bad. Either that, or make the wear proportional to the number of stages in between services. I'm using the scenario: Service, Stage, Stage, Service.

Yeah, IMO the real solution is to re-format the championship format to proper lengths.  Then the tyre wear might be a proper "game" factor.  Tyre allocation is also not fully implemented and could be a proper fun game factor if the championships were of correct length/distance (even if they are custom championships)

[Riggs]

This also raises the point on tarmac tyres. Wet tyres already have penalized grip on dry conditions but they should wear faster throughout the stage. It would be important if the degradation rate of the wear would depend on how hard you push, by using data such as speed and sliding. If a telemetry tool made by a fan can get this data, I'm sure the DiRT Team can even get more detailed data and make better use of it for these systems.

Tyre wear should also be noted for Monte Carlo in case people decide to take a studded tyre, this tyre would have to grip on the snow/ice parts but massively wear on the 'dry' tarmac. This way, this tyre gambling make more sense than it is atm.

[BloodCat]

5 minutes ago, Riggs said:

Wet tyres already have penalized grip on dry conditions but they should wear faster throughout the stage.

They do wear faster on dry stages. In Spain it took one dry and one wet stage, both of middle length, to drop tire condition to 'worn'.

[Riggs]

Just now, BloodCat said:

They do wear faster on dry stages. In Spain it took one dry and one wet stage, both of middle length, to drop tire condition to 'worn'.

That's good to know. I haven't been able to drop it to Worn on 2 small stages. The only time I managed to get a worn tyre was in australia and nz on softs.

[DozUK]

So what is the story with rally tyres? Is a type better for a location or is it all based on service intervals? For example in career first difficulty service areas are every two stages, is this softs all the way regardless of location making tyre choice null and void until service intervals are longer apart?

Basically is there no real choice really, small service intervals softs, longer service intervals mediums and very long service intervals hards?

Would you never really gamble against softs and hards?

[StockTunesOnly]

22 minutes ago, DozUK said:

Basically is there no real choice really, small service intervals softs, longer service intervals mediums and very long service intervals hards?

Pretty much. I've sworn by Softs only in My Team unless it's Spain with wet conditions. I see absolutely zero reason to run anything else outside of custom championships right now.

[Riggs]

40 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Pretty much. I've sworn by Softs only in My Team unless it's Spain with wet conditions. I see absolutely zero reason to run anything else outside of custom championships right now.

Exactly. That's why this tyre wear system needs to be looked at and make them wear way more, i'd say by at least double. And if it isn't already like that, the wear rate should also be proportional to the way you drive. You push harder, the tyres wear harder. Grip-wise i think the difference is good enough, the problem here is the wear being too forgiving.

Maybe it's not so simple to change this, but I suppose this wear rate is stored in a variable. If that's the case, it's just a matter of adjusting this value to make it more realistic.

 

The number of tyre set changes you can do should also get revised or allow players to define the limit on custom matches and future league options when setting one up. That should also help with the tyre gambling.

[SUBGTRACER]

If there are tyre tweaks to be done by codemasters in the near future I would hope that the time trail/ server  would be reset.

I'm all for it but hell that's a lot of my time out the window if they reset the servers 🙂

Im good with it , always  looking for a more realistic experience.  

[StockTunesOnly]

20 minutes ago, SUBGTRACER said:

I would hope that the time trail/ server  would be reset.

Unless it was a dramatic overhaul I don't think that would be necessary. I mean I don't think Softs would wear out before a Long stage ends, or even wear enough that it would impact performance so no real reason to reset the times. And until Codies introduces Championship Time Trials there is really no reason tire choice would impact it.

 

Which holy **** why have we not thought of this before - give us a special TT to select that makes us run a championship across every stage!!! No restarts, service every X stages, allow checkpoints at service stops. The ultimate Dirt Rally 2.0 endurance event. See who truly is the most consistent driver.