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Codies are like a submarine on game release

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Posted (edited)

Anyone notice how Codies boast about this feature and that prior to release, akin to a submarine on the surface. Then, at game release where they know it’s a bug ridden mess the Captain orders the sub to go into the deep blue sea breaking radio contact lol. 

I’m sure Codies think it’s a great tactic after all of us mugs... ahem I mean customers blindly buy this nonsense year in and year out....

I’m just waiting for the Codie jihadists who have been preached to and converted, to launch their defence of this sham of a game and the devs! 

Edited by WhaGuan77
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I'm interested to see what you hope to gain from bashing a game on forums? 

They haven't broken radio silence as you put it, they've addressed complaints and are in the process of fixing it. I also don't see a broken game. I'm having a lot more fun than I ever gained playing D4.

To use your awful Submarine analogy, Its sometimes difficult to find faults and issues with the .....Submarine until it has launched out to sea. There it faces the pressure of the open ocean, and it's customers......(sailors) detect issues that may have gone unnoticed prior to release......(launch).

If you don't like the game at present, wait a bit and I'm sure all of your issues will be fixed, if not then I guess Codemasters has lost a customer.

 

In the meantime I recommend watching 'Das Boot' the new series. It's brilliant and may tide you over for a bit. Also it has lots of Submarines.

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7 minutes ago, Rallystu2 said:

I'm interested to see what you hope to gain from bashing a game on forums? 

I’m also interested in understanding what’s to be gained by anyone else by said bashing. I can (and do) respect a well fundamentated criticism, as much as I may even disagree with it, but pure bashing has no content I can even rebate!

So... today’s lesson:

Bashing = bad

Constructive Criticism = good.

 

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25 minutes ago, Rallystu2 said:

I'm interested to see what you hope to gain from bashing a game on forums? 

They haven't broken radio silence as you put it, they've addressed complaints and are in the process of fixing it. I also don't see a broken game. I'm having a lot more fun than I ever gained playing D4.

To use your awful Submarine analogy, Its sometimes difficult to find faults and issues with the .....Submarine until it has launched out to sea. There it faces the pressure of the open ocean, and it's customers......(sailors) detect issues that may have gone unnoticed prior to release......(launch).

If you don't like the game at present, wait a bit and I'm sure all of your issues will be fixed, if not then I guess Codemasters has lost a customer.

 

In the meantime I recommend watching 'Das Boot' the new series. It's brilliant and may tide you over for a bit. Also it has lots of Submarines.

You can insult my analogy all you want, and I suppose by using sarcasm you are living out your role as protector of Codies, further justifying my statement about the converted die-hard that will not seem to accept Codies are guilty of doing this over and over again! 

I hardly think by calling out Codies for releasing a game with a major bug (No FFB) is bashing a game that costs £50!! 

I have no issues waiting, but in the same token why should I? I did not realise there was an FFB bug until after I installed the game. 

You call it a bashing, I call it expecting the product I paid for to work as it should. And this will be the moment whereby someone will say "well it works ok for me" Well great! But it does not here and that is why I am showing my frustration on the very forum designed for such communication! 

I did not realise there was an issue complaining about my experience of the game....

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20 minutes ago, Mastoideu said:

I’m also interested in understanding what’s to be gained by anyone else by said bashing. I can (and do) respect a well fundamentated criticism, as much as I may even disagree with it, but pure bashing has no content I can even rebate!

So... today’s lesson:

Bashing = bad

Constructive Criticism = good.

2

Your condescending tone is quite frankly rude and not constructive either, but if you feel better for doing it then, by all means, go ahead and knock yourself out! 

20 minutes ago, Mastoideu said:

 

 

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I think going down the "jihadist" or "protector of codies" road is what gets to me. It's an Insanely short sighted judgement on your part. 

It would be like me calling you a bitter troll who lacks common sense and is unable to phrase criticism in any kind of constructive way, and instead resorts to insults and rage trolling, not just against the game developers but the community themselves, but I would never accuse you of that as it would be rash, and also a relatively short sighted judgment on my part.

The dedicated community members here are extremely critical of faults and bugs and issues with the games, however we manage to phrase them in a non hateful and constructive way.

The issues get acknowledged, and they then attempt to solve them. This allows the afore mentioned trolls to move onto another inflated issue to fulfill their dreary lives ( not on about you ).

This is a tiring cycle that repeats itself over and over again, meanwhile we as community members get the game we want as codemasters attempts to spin plates between pleasing everyone and releasing new content.

And the force feedback does work. It isn't broken, it's just lacking some effects which I'm sure will come.

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26 minutes ago, Rallystu2 said:

I think going down the "jihadist" or "protector of codies" road is what gets to me. It's an Insanely short sighted judgement on your part. 

It would be like me calling you a bitter troll who lacks common sense and is unable to phrase criticism in any kind of constructive way, and instead resorts to insults and rage trolling, not just against the game developers but the community themselves, but I would never accuse you of that as it would be rash, and also a relatively short sighted judgment on my part.

The dedicated community members here are extremely critical of faults and bugs and issues with the games, however we manage to phrase them in a non hateful and constructive way.

The issues get acknowledged, and they then attempt to solve them. This allows the afore mentioned trolls to move onto another inflated issue to fulfill their dreary lives ( not on about you ).

This is a tiring cycle that repeats itself over and over again, meanwhile we as community members get the game we want as codemasters attempts to spin plates between pleasing everyone and releasing new content.

And the force feedback does work. It isn't broken, it's just lacking some effects which I'm sure will come.

Ok, I'll accept the 'Jihadist' comment might seem strong, but when you face constant criticism for mentioning well-known bugs, it becomes tiring for those complaining as it does for those defending. 

I am perfectly capable of phrasing my criticism in a constructive way, but no matter what way it is vocalised, it seems some will not accept a bad word said about the devs. And it's these complaints, that I would hope to make Codies try harder in the future to prevent such glaring bugs.

I cannot accept that the FFB works, I have a Fanatec CSL Elite and there is not one shred of feedback in the game aside from crossing cattle grids or going off-road.

I do not know you any more than you know me, and I am not an unreasonable person. But, it seems game after game (not just talking Codies here) seem to release games laden with issues. EA, Ubisoft.... I personally would rather a game is delayed and be released with the bugs patched than releasing a game with major issues. 

 

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After a few minutes of introspection I got to realize my mistake: I reacted to the OP. Should’ve known better.

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Just now, Mastoideu said:

After a few minutes of introspection I got to realize my mistake: I reacted to the OP. Should’ve known better.

Yep, you are correct Sir! 

Move on, nothing to see here....

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Posted (edited)

I'm sorry but codemasters bring this on themselves. The FFB clearly wasn't finished in time for release so one of two things should have happened.

 

1. The game was delayed

2. Codemasters released a statement before release saying something along the lines off "Unfortunately FFB will not be ready for release so all effects other than self aligning torque will be switched off while we work on it." This way people can make an informed decision on whether they want to buy it.

 

Either of those options would have saved them this huge backlash they're experiencing at the moment. Instead they decided to just release it anyway and pretend like the FFB effects being switched off was unexpected to them. And then yesterday they release a statement essentially saying "Jeez we're working on it guys, this stuff is hard"

People defending this behavior is just bizarre. 

Edited by Decks
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Posted (edited)

Regular members here were the first to criticise Codemasters unwillingness to admit limitations during the pre release phase of the game. 

Delaying the game would've brought it's own level of backlash... "I've paid for deluxe and now I don't get to play early *** codemasters..." 

I imagine statements may be governed by corporate pressures. It hurts business to come out and talk of bugs before release.

Unfortunately all games release with faults, it's just the way of the world. Pressure of release dates mixed with insufficient stress testing. I imagine the force feedback is extremely complicated given the stage degradation system, a system that we wanted, and we received.

 

Criticism is fine, and hasn't been fought against by anyone here. It's the new thread making and dumb unqualified insults and assumptions that get people aggravated. 

The community here in some cases has been providing criticism and feedback in a constructive manner for years now, day in and day out.

I find it bizarre how people think that opening new threads and insulting people is going to change a thing.

Edited by Rallystu2
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Posted (edited)

I honestly can't understand people making excuses for them. The game should have been delayed until it was finished, or they should have made people aware that the FFB wasn't going to be working properly. It's that simple really.  The huge backlash they're going through at the moment is evidence that they've dealt with this in completely the wrong way. And I imagine it will make a fairly niche game (which I love) even harder to sell the next time around. 

 

I get that there's a community here and there's a bunch of you that feel protective of Codemasters at the moment, but I was called stupid by two separate people on here yesterday for trying to discuss the issue beyond "they're working on it". So yeah people are going to react to that stuff as well. 

Edited by Decks

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I get the feeling that the ffb was released as intended to be honest. But i agree its lacking. 

I don't feel they saw it as an issue until people started reacting to it. But they have said on many multiple occasions now that they're looking into it. I imagine the degradation system is a barrier but I don't know. 

Members here are also acutely aware of the timeframes here, we've been doing the whole critique and feedback thing for a long time. It's not blind defense, it's just knowing how these things work.

Codemasters can't come out and say specifically what's happending until they know it will work. Christina has posted to that effect on one of the 350 ffb threads. If there was just the one thread then everybody would have a much clearer picture.

I'm not going to call anyone stupid, but I also don't expect to be accused of blindly protecting codemasters. It's just that when all this drama is over and the ffb guys have left the forum never to be seen again, we will still be here within a system we know, making the changes we want, one step at a time with Codemasters' ear.

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I'd be amazed if they didn't know the FFB was a problem before release given their experience. Also I think a lot of people here seem to be in the mindset that this is an early access and not a game people have paid £50-£70 for. 

But yeah I can imagine how irritating this place is at the moment if you're a regular poster. I'd probably be more inclined to be annoyed at Codemasters rather than the people with genuine complaints through, they really have handled the whole thing poorly. A bit of honesty or transparency would have went a long way imo.

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11 minutes ago, Rallystu2 said:

I get the feeling that the ffb was released as intended to be honest. But i agree its lacking. 

I don't feel they saw it as an issue until people started reacting to it. But they have said on many multiple occasions now that they're looking into it. I imagine the degradation system is a barrier but I don't know. 

Members here are also acutely aware of the timeframes here, we've been doing the whole critique and feedback thing for a long time. It's not blind defense, it's just knowing how these things work.

Codemasters can't come out and say specifically what's happending until they know it will work. Christina has posted to that effect on one of the 350 ffb threads. If there was just the one thread then everybody would have a much clearer picture.

I'm not going to call anyone stupid, but I also don't expect to be accused of blindly protecting codemasters. It's just that when all this drama is over and the ffb guys have left the forum never to be seen again, we will still be here within a system we know, making the changes we want, one step at a time with Codemasters' ear.

But does your own comments not go to show that despite numerous feedback from early access users and testers, they still released the game in this state?

I know it takes time to solve these issues, but Codies have a history of releasing a fix for one issue which inherently causes another. Then eventually after chasing their tail, we'll be told no more patches are being released as they are working on the next project. 

It's just a common theme with this lot, on Dirt and F1 games, and not like the transparency that the CEO of Slightly Mad Studios shows when faced with these issues. And that was what motivated my submarine comments. 

It almost negates the need for beta testers and early access, as it turns out us the paying customers are the real beta testers. 

As an example, PUBG was released in early access for what seemed like an eternity, but as a result, it was cheaper and you knew where you stood. You realised it was not the finished article and accepted this. I think it's the fact you are paying good money for what is essentially an unfinished game. 

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2 hours ago, Rallystu2 said:

I get the feeling that the ffb was released as intended to be honest. But i agree its lacking. 

I don't feel they saw it as an issue until people started reacting to it. But they have said on many multiple occasions now that they're looking into it. I imagine the degradation system is a barrier but I don't know. 

Members here are also acutely aware of the timeframes here, we've been doing the whole critique and feedback thing for a long time. It's not blind defense, it's just knowing how these things work.

Codemasters can't come out and say specifically what's happending until they know it will work. Christina has posted to that effect on one of the 350 ffb threads. If there was just the one thread then everybody would have a much clearer picture.

I'm not going to call anyone stupid, but I also don't expect to be accused of blindly protecting codemasters. It's just that when all this drama is over and the ffb guys have left the forum never to be seen again, we will still be here within a system we know, making the changes we want, one step at a time with Codemasters' ear.

Agree with everything you said, I would have to say your defending common sense not CM. 

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Codie Jihadists? Wow, people are really stepping up their rhetoric but it seems they're not willing to understand that - especially simulation titles - are very complex pieces of software that obviously would need more time to get released in a 100% polished state. I think it's safe to say that no game developer want to read these kind of comments and still almost every game has numerous bugs on release. Time is the key factor here and it seems the business does not allow longer development times.

 I'm pretty sure that everyone at Codemasters have worked their §%%$ off to give us a more than satisfying and stunning game (in my view ofc). To me threads and OPs like this are an incredible disrespect towards the hard work that was put into this game. 

The game will get patched step by step, that means hundreds - or maybe thousands - of hours of entertainment and fun for how much? 50 pounds? You just need a tiny little bit of patience. 

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Is there any software nowadays that releases on-time and doesn’t face multiple patches or balancing adjustments postmortem? ‘Tis the way of the world lads. I think everyone is a little frustrated - I know I am. The submarine analogy was funny...and I get where it comes from. I also have made a few disparaging comments in these pages over the past few days. Fair to say that a lot of us have been anxiously awaiting the release of this title. Did anyone expect it to be perfect? Not I for one...bugs are normal - and expected! That said, did anyone expect this level of issues? Never in a million.

And this is where I become irritated. How many installments of Dirt games have there been over the years? Did Codies not have enough precedence on which to base their development? Of course they did. The in-game engine is the same - Ego 3. Therefore it should be familiar and easy(ish) to design around. Fact is, there are too many implementation issues that are present. Lighting, texture, FFB etc. It baffles me, and likewise everyone else in here who has had less than ‘constructive’ commentary. I’m fine with some snotty remarks, people need to vent.

Codemasters needs to step up - and they will. How quickly and how effectively remains to be seen. Until then we can all commiserate, it’s our right to vocalize how we see fit (within reason).

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Posted (edited)

It is all about $$$ and nothing else.

Codies is far from the worst bunch of Devs out there making games and releasing them tho, there are way worse.

Now i dont have issues on my end, and enjoy this game unlike i did with D4 but not as much as D2/3, but yeah i do agree things should be fixxed before a release, and things like always online is >not ever< a good thing, but hey today's society..., it is not for nothing on Steam either, wich i dont like after the many years using it, pepperoni bless Farming Sim 19.

Gaming will never be like the golden olden days.

Edited by Gerbie

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1 hour ago, richie said:

Codie Jihadists? Wow, people are really stepping up their rhetoric but it seems they're not willing to understand that - especially simulation titles - are very complex pieces of software that obviously would need more time to get released in a 100% polished state. I think it's safe to say that no game developer want to read these kind of comments and still almost every game has numerous bugs on release. Time is the key factor here and it seems the business does not allow longer development times.

 I'm pretty sure that everyone at Codemasters have worked their §%%$ off to give us a more than satisfying and stunning game (in my view ofc). To me threads and OPs like this are an incredible disrespect towards the hard work that was put into this game. 

The game will get patched step by step, that means hundreds - or maybe thousands - of hours of entertainment and fun for how much? 50 pounds? You just need a tiny little bit of patience. 

I’m pretty sure the devs did work their arses off! But does that mean I have to be happy I’ve spent money on a game that I’d unplayable in my opinion with the FFB in its current form. 

Why do I need to be patient, I’m not expecting perfect, but this is ridiculous! I just do not understand why I’m being attacked for my vernacular. The Codies Jihadist comment was meant tongue in cheek, but yet the very comments on this post actually ring true about what I’m saying. 

Would it be acceptable to buy a TV only for it to work sometimes, or a car? The point is whether it’s £50 or £5000 it should be useable, and what you are saying is that I should just put my copy in the drawer until such time the issues are fixed?? And you question my logic!! 

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6 hours ago, WhaGuan77 said:

Anyone notice how Codies boast about this feature and that prior to release, akin to a submarine on the surface. Then, at game release where they know it’s a bug ridden mess the Captain orders the sub to go into the deep blue sea breaking radio contact lol. 

I’m sure Codies think it’s a great tactic after all of us mugs... ahem I mean customers blindly buy this nonsense year in and year out....

I’m just waiting for the Codie jihadists who have been preached to and converted, to launch their defence of this sham of a game and the devs! 

a bug ridden mess?

I agree, tried it again before, had to turn off, got the could not see the course bug where it's just too dark to see it, headlights would not function.

DR 1.0 is superior to this mess. Gone back to MS for a refund again

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19 minutes ago, WhaGuan77 said:

I’m pretty sure the devs did work their arses off! But does that mean I have to be happy I’ve spent money on a game that I’d unplayable in my opinion with the FFB in its current form. 

Why do I need to be patient, I’m not expecting perfect, but this is ridiculous! I just do not understand why I’m being attacked for my vernacular. The Codies Jihadist comment was meant tongue in cheek, but yet the very comments on this post actually ring true about what I’m saying. 

Would it be acceptable to buy a TV only for it to work sometimes, or a car? The point is whether it’s £50 or £5000 it should be useable, and what you are saying is that I should just put my copy in the drawer until such time the issues are fixed?? And you question my logic!! 

Well, these comparisons very rarely make sense unless you just want to simplify or polemicize. We're talking about software. DR2 is not unplayable or unusable. This is absolutely exaggerated. I recommend to open the window, take a deep breath of fresh air and maybe think about giving some constructive criticism, because this actually contributes to improve the things you might hate right now and to make the game better. Calling other people defenders, fanboys, codies jihadists or whatever is easier than questioning yourself. 

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4 hours ago, WhaGuan77 said:

t's just a common theme with this lot, on Dirt and F1 games, and not like the transparency that the CEO of Slightly Mad Studios shows when faced with these issues. And that was what motivated my submarine comments.

w8 a moment. when Ian Bell faced issues? When he said that non working features or key-features are not game breakers? For example when game messed up saved setups Or real weather never been real. year after realease it stopped working at all withou further fix.  online championship occasionaly dissallows to use pwn setups making this feature effectively non-usable. But it' was not game breaker in his opinion.

You know what, I prefer silence from devs rather than pure lies.

Of course in perfect world I would welcome bugs free games... wait, When games were relesed on phisical mediums (CD, DVD), those are more perfected than today. Globalization gives oportunity to earn more money regardless product quality. And companies just exploits this posibility

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I think some people mistake the wish for a bit more communication with the wish for an immediate fix. I´d guess nobody really expects them to fix these issues within a few days. But a bit more communication, maybe a status-report on some of the more pressing issues (the FFB for example) would be welcome by many and could calm down the heat.

A status-report coming from themselves, and not only as part of an answer. Other companies (big and small) can pull that off, too. These things go a LONG way to to have a healthy relationship with the consumer.

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