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Restarts, Repairs, Credits

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Posted (edited)

So...

I have read a fair bit online about how a fair number of people are upset with the career mode, specifically the restriction in restarts and that repairs now cost credits.

And I can certainly see their point of view; upon my first spectacular McRae-esk visit into the scenery I was taken aback by these new features and put the game down in protest. An hour later I was back on, determined to master this new challenge to my prowess... but instead found myself driving like a granny, again cursing Codemasters for this seemingly absurd decision.

Fast forward a week and I have discovered something about myself... I am ok with not winning every stage.

The first Dirt Rally was awesome, this I cannot argue but- now that I think back- I spent far too much time learning the stages, through repetition, and I didn't really learn the cars or how to handle them. I just kept flying though each stage and restarting every two minutes until I aced them and won with the consistency of Loeb.

Before the era of Loeb, the WRC was a varied championship that threw up surprising winners on every stage- there was no single dominating car or team (On the same level as Loeb, at least. Infact I think he was the first person to win every stage in a rally weekend). Every stage, up until then, was uncertain and thrilling; the championship never a forgone conclusion.

And so, with this in mind, I have realised that the lack of restarts has forced me to think strategically about my approach to each stage. I no longer push as hard as I can on every stage. I no longer fly off the road every two minutes. Instead, I push only when I have to, content that I will not always win. And this had upped the immersion for me, reminding me of the WRC era that I first fell in love with (Early to mid 90's).

Admittedly I am not very fast now, but never have I been so thrilled with a third place on a stage in Argentina, for example. Added to this that I am running low on credits (Too many sexy cars to spend them on) and I have to use credits on repairs very very sparingly, meaning a further reduction in my confidence and limit teasing.

Instead of the frustration that I initially felt, I find myself now enthralled, enjoying this new aspect of the game and the increased challenge- after all, it was for the challenge that I came to the series.

So now I see people calling for the removal of these features...

Well, I am not going to say no to this because if the removal of these features helps others enjoy the game then sobeit. Instead I would argue that Codemasters implement a scale whereby people can choose to turn off these options but offering a financial incentive to keep them on. This way those who want to enjoy the game with the realism of expensive costs and a lack of restarts, can. Those who don't want that, can turn them off but incur a penalty. I think this would be fairest way to do it, and help more people to enjoy the game their way.

I write this because I am concerned that we could lose a feature that has enhanced the gameplay.

All I ask is that these features are not gotten rid of entirely because that, in my opinion, would damage the game where it is the strongest- immersion. (But, please don't get rid of restarts completely, I still make the odd **** so having a few do-overs is still required occasionally).

I have heard, and continue to hear, a lot of gripes about this game. But, you know what? I love it- great job, Codemasters.

Anyone else think like this, or have suggestions about this scenario, or just want to call me an idiot?

Let me know.

Edited by Sammoo
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There's also a place for those people in the game: Freeplay.

Career should stay as is, hard and challenging. Experience will gradually help people overcome these challenges, by knowing the stages better and the reactions of the car they drive (plus setup). It's simply a shame that hardcore damage isn't turned on and can't be turned on in the career mode, because it should be 😉

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2 minutes ago, Riggs said:

There's also a place for those people in the game: Freeplay.

Career should stay as is, hard and challenging. Experience will gradually help people overcome these challenges, by knowing the stages better and the reactions of the car they drive (plus setup). It's simply a shame that hardcore damage isn't turned on and can't be turned on in the career mode, because it should be 😉

I do agree, The game is about learning and adapting. But my concerns at that Codemasters would drop the reduced restarts and cost of repairs to account for those that call for it. I intended to offer a compromise and state my desire to keep them on but with a compromise.

I think these features, including realistic damage, are essential to the enjoyment of the game and I would hate to see this change. But I have to disagree with you and say that if career is not enjoyable for a large number of number of people then something should be done for those people, just don't mess with the hardcore player base while doing so.

I am very glad that you think like me though, as I was concerned that a lack of voice to this cause could make us hardcore guys lose out. (I had never actually thought of myself as a hardcore player until now- especially as I still use a controller, for want of a wheel and pedals).

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Posted (edited)

If you complete the first career championship and get promoted to Clubman using the 'free repairs' vehicle then for your troubles you should bank roll around 500,000 CR and be pretty much sorted for future championships with other vehicles, so in that respect anything regarding credits and having to pay for repairs will become a non-issue.

On the subject of limited restarts;  having only a mere 5 isn't really a bad thing because knowing you're starting a stage with only a finite number of get out of jail free cards should should be encouraging you to drive to your abilities and appreciating that winning a stage involves something slightly more than simply hitting the restart button on every single mistake. I suppose it ultimately lies with what you want to get out of the game. If you want the usual 'win every race with ease on the easiest settings and complete the game without issue' scenario then sure, with it's current setup DR2 won't allow you to do that. But on the other hand, if you want to achieve something to a greater degree of self-satisfaction then once other more pressing issues are resolved DR2 will most definately allow you to go down that path.

Speaking as someone on a controller with 'not great' rally skills I would still take the latter any day of the week. Having 'blood, sweat and tears' my way to 1000g on the supposedly impossible (without a wheel) DR1, even with it's current restrictions DR2 should be an absolute breeze... Well, that is when I don't have to retire the pitch black daylight of Argentina every time.

Random question: Does anyone know if DR2 employs the same championship relegation system as DR1 did? 

Edited by _BorisTheFrog_
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7 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

If you complete the first career championship and get promoted to Clubman using the 'free repairs' vehicle then for your troubles you should bank roll around 500,000 CR and be pretty much sorted for future championships with other vehicles, so in that respect anything regarding credits and having to pay for repairs will become a non-issue.

On the subject of limited restarts;  having only a mere 5 isn't really a bad thing because knowing you're starting a stage with only a finite number of get out of jail free cards should should be encouraging you to drive to your abilities and appreciating that winning a stage involves something slightly more than simply hitting the restart button on every single mistake. I suppose it ultimately lies with what you want to get out of the game. If you want the usual 'win every race with ease on the easiest settings and complete the game without issue' scenario then sure, with it's current setup DR2 won't allow you to do that. But on the other hand, if you want to achieve something to a greater degree of self-satisfaction then once other more pressing issues are resolved DR2 will most definately allow you to go down that path.

Speaking as someone on a controller with 'not great' rally skills I would still take the latter any day of the week. Having 'blood, sweat and tears' my way to 1000g on the supposedly impossible (without a wheel) DR1, even with it's current restrictions DR2 should be an absolute breeze... Well, that is when I don't have to retire the pitch black daylight of Argentina every time.

Random question: Does anyone know if DR2 employs the same championship relegation system as DR1 did? 

Thanks, I am glad there are others that are of the same opinion. Originally I wasn't enthused about the lack of restarts and costs but now I love them.

Annoyingly, after I posted this I found that there was already a chat going on about this over at the suggestion box. I have been ploughing my way through that and found most people agree with us: keep the restrictions. Looks like my fear may be unfounded.

I can't help you regarding the championship regulations, I'm afraid- I am not sure I even understood the question, to be honest.

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1 hour ago, Riggs said:

There's also a place for those people in the game: Freeplay.

Career should stay as is, hard and challenging. Experience will gradually help people overcome these challenges, by knowing the stages better and the reactions of the car they drive (plus setup). It's simply a shame that hardcore damage isn't turned on and can't be turned on in the career mode, because it should be 😉

Yeah that’s such a shame about lack of hardcore damage in career, why have that feature and then not make it an option in career? It makes you wonder if codies literally just forgot to make it optonal in career mode... such a waste

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5 minutes ago, Pieman99 said:

Yeah that’s such a shame about lack of hardcore damage in career, why have that feature and then not make it an option in career? It makes you wonder if codies literally just forgot to make it optonal in career mode... such a waste

They probably did or they baulked at the prospect an uprising due to the introduction of cost of repairs, hardcore damage only exacerbating it... probably not a bad decision there, seeing the number of complaints about paying for repairs.

But I really hope they do add it. I have clipped rocks through stages, sure to have broken my suspension yet nothing has happened... sometimes I am grateful of that on occasions but mostly I find that it drops me out of the game.

Plus could you imagine the fun if they added hardcore damage and then introduced the Safari rally... did someone say masochism?

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2 hours ago, Sammoo said:

Thanks, I am glad there are others that are of the same opinion. Originally I wasn't enthused about the lack of restarts and costs but now I love them.

Annoyingly, after I posted this I found that there was already a chat going on about this over at the suggestion box. I have been ploughing my way through that and found most people agree with us: keep the restrictions. Looks like my fear may be unfounded.

I can't help you regarding the championship regulations, I'm afraid- I am not sure I even understood the question, to be honest.

Unless i've gone totally bonkers (or dreamed up a brilliant idea) in my old age DR1's championship mode used to work as follows: If you finished top 3 (podium) you got promoted to the next difficulty class - but if you finished at the lower end of a championship you got relegated to the previous difficulty class. 

Just going back to the restarts thing for a minute... When I was driving in Spain on one of my many attempted championships I came across a scenario where I had a damaged car and only two restarts left. The dilemma was, should I drive hard and gamble those restarts knowing I still had two more stages to complete or just drive careful and finish with a slower time.. In the end I gambled and invariably cashed in both restarts AND ended up with a slower time. My point is that, by not having the ability to race that critical stage over and over until such a time i was happy with the outcome, gambling with my options completely changed the result of that rally. I got greedy by not consolidating a comfortable top 3 and paid a heavy price for my actions.

Surely It can't be such a bad thing for a game to enforce scenarios like that on a gamer... Apparantly some say it is 

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2 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Unless i've gone totally bonkers (or dreamed up a brilliant idea) in my old age DR1's championship mode used to work as follows: If you finished top 3 (podium) you got promoted to the next difficulty class - but if you finished at the lower end of a championship you got relegated to the previous difficulty class. 

Just going back to the restarts thing for a minute... When I was driving in Spain on one of my many attempted championships I came across a scenario where I had a damaged car and only two restarts left. The dilemma was, should I drive hard and gamble those restarts knowing I still had two more stages to complete or just drive careful and finish with a slower time.. In the end I gambled and invariably cashed in both restarts AND ended up with a slower time. My point is that, by not having the ability to race that critical stage over and over until such a time i was happy with the outcome, gambling with my options completely changed the result of that rally. I got greedy by not consolidating a comfortable top 3 and paid a heavy price for my actions.

Surely It can't be such a bad thing for a game to enforce scenarios like that on a gamer... Apparantly some say it is 

Exactly! That is what I love, having to think and plan ahead, settling for second best on occasions but still feeling like I have achieved something. DR1's victories felt almost hollow because of the restarts.

I see what you mean now about the championships- I am banking on them working as before as I am currently sitting in a tenuous second place in my third championship.  I should imagine it would work the same as DR1- it was a solid system. No doubt I will become familiar with the relegation system before too much longer.

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I agree, when I first started I finished 30th in all stages of event 1. I immediately wanted to restart, but then checked myself....why would I do this, I'm not going to magically get better because I've restarted.

I accepted that this is where I am in the game and even asked for advice from this forum and received amazing support from some great guys. When I was finishing 30th it wasn't that I was driving like a madman crashing into anything, I wasn't hitting anything I was just slow. I drive manual without assists so it was a case of learning and pushing a bit more. Getting a better understanding of the co driver calls and looking for continual improvement.

In event 2 I placed 21st and was thrilled with the progression. I got my first 8 points by finished 10th in the next event, I was running around the room and even posted back on my original thread I was that chuffed to actually have picked up points.

The joy I've had about this has really got me questioning restarts. Love the game and the helpful community

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2 minutes ago, DozUK said:

I agree, when I first started I finished 30th in all stages of event 1. I immediately wanted to restart, but then checked myself....why would I do this, I'm not going to magically get better because I've restarted.

I accepted that this is where I am in the game and even asked for advice from this forum and received amazing support from some great guys. When I was finishing 30th it wasn't that I was driving like a madman crashing into anything, I wasn't hitting anything I was just slow. I drive manual without assists so it was a case of learning and pushing a bit more. Getting a better understanding of the co driver calls and looking for continual improvement.

In event 2 I placed 21st and was thrilled with the progression. I got my first 8 points by finished 10th in the next event, I was running around the room and even posted back on my original thread I was that chuffed to actually have picked up points.

The joy I've had about this has really got me questioning restarts. Love the game and the helpful community

Precisely. It's that feeling of achievement. I think if the restrictions were removed carte blanche then we would lose that sense of satisfaction. Sadly, todays culture is one of instant gratification and nannying... everyone gets a medal for participating...

Not in a game like this, this game is for gamers.

On the pace notes though- I do wish they had a little bit more info. I relied heavily on the 'minus' back when I used to do road stages.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sammoo said:

Sadly, todays culture is one of instant gratification and nannying... everyone gets a medal for participating...

..... This - and this alone

Edited by _BorisTheFrog_
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2 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

.....

By that I meant that not everyone has learnt the inherent value of losing and the lessons to be learned from it- not least of which is how much better winning is.

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42 minutes ago, Sammoo said:

By that I meant that not everyone has learnt the inherent value of losing and the lessons to be learned from it- not least of which is how much better winning is.

Yep... My post is amended (it saved incomplete for some strange reason)

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1 minute ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

Yep... My post is amended (it saved incomplete for some strange reason)

Sweet.

So we agree, DR2 is saving the UK from the mire that is killing our competitive nature.

Should DR2 be considered and extension of Darwins theory of Evolution? Survival of the fittest and all that...

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The reason I love the limited restarts and paying for your repairs is because it gives me that same feeling leagues in DR1 did. You have to pick and choose how you attack things, know what your hot stage is and push it there to make up time, and know your weaker stage where you drive safer but you can keep the leader within reach. 

 

I am also LOVING the extended stretches between service stops. Unlike DR1 it isn't every other stage gets you to service. Maybe you open an event with a 2 Long stages, but both have a service stop. But then the next stop isn't until SS5 - do you run softs on SS1 for max attack, and then mediums for SS2-4? You only have so many tire changes per event though, so could it be smarter to run mediums and not change tires at SS2 to save that extra change for later? Sooo much more fun this way than knowing I can just fight to the next service which is only ever 1 stage away.

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Yep agreed. It works well so long as one AI driver doesn’t win every stage or the AI order changes a bit. Which I think it does. 

I had a little laugh when you mentioned coming 3rd at Argentina. I did that last night in my trusty Ford Escort.  The last two stages it was tight but had to go for it and went from 5th to 3rd. Fists were pumping. 

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11 hours ago, Ferrethead81 said:

Yep agreed. It works well so long as one AI driver doesn’t win every stage or the AI order changes a bit. Which I think it does. 

I had a little laugh when you mentioned coming 3rd at Argentina. I did that last night in my trusty Ford Escort.  The last two stages it was tight but had to go for it and went from 5th to 3rd. Fists were pumping. 

The AI does seem to be pretty varied. My current adversary has finished up and down the board so we are nearly level pegging on points.

Last night I pulled off a stunning victory in Poland... The missus came running down the stairs thinking that I had hurt myself such was the volume of my celebrations- Never have I played a game that gives me such a sense of satisfaction and joy!

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Did anyone else feel the pain on the weekly in Argentina?! I did, I got to stage 8, my Group B Audi was battered and barely alive, but still running ok, it was that bad hairpin the second one on Miraflores I hit it too hard and went off, for a moment I was stranded on some rocks so I gassed it hoping to get back on track... But no, DEATH, unrecoverable car! An hour an half or so down the swanny! :)

This game can be cruel, but I love it already!

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2 minutes ago, LAVAMAN82 said:

Did anyone else feel the pain on the weekly in Argentina?! I did, I got to stage 8, my Group B Audi was battered and barely alive, but still running ok, it was that bad hairpin the second one on Miraflores I hit it too hard and went off, for a moment I was stranded on some rocks so I gassed it hoping to get back on track... But no, DEATH, unrecoverable car! An hour an half or so down the swanny! 🙂

This game can be cruel, but I love it already!

I have to admit that I am yet to do any of the challenges. I have limited time to play so I concentrate on the career atm... but I do know you pain about Argentina. I love it though. It's to technical and complex. It's a great Rally... but, like you say, heart breaking too. But it's all part of thee charm.

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They make for a nice weekly total if you land top tier. Just don't stack it and get DNF as I did. I wish there were more, and more dailies too. Give me the Audi daily for the trophy too, that is not going to be easy. Car is a beast, an absolute beast!

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16 hours ago, LAVAMAN82 said:

They make for a nice weekly total if you land top tier. Just don't stack it and get DNF as I did. I wish there were more, and more dailies too. Give me the Audi daily for the trophy too, that is not going to be easy. Car is a beast, an absolute beast!

I'll give it a crack tonight then. But if I destroy my beautiful Suby then I might just cry...

I will have to get some more experience before I attempt the Audi- it's just too much car for me atm. 

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I would like to see more realism, like option to turn off restarts totally. And definately also hard core damage in career mode. I'm on the point where game feels liiitle bit boring (still loving the game), because also Pro career is still very easy, so you just have to grind, grind, grind a lot before getting challenges.. I started also Fia RX champs with very hard difficulty (I think it's the hardest what you can get, bcs slider is on max) and for me it's just too easy at the moment. Winning every heats etc with 10-15secs gets it boring, so basicly you just drive through whole championship.

But I'm still going to do career with all difficulty levels 🙂

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we need to add pricetag on tires, that would give a purpose to hard compund 👽

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Posted (edited)
On 3/6/2019 at 12:01 PM, Mike Dee said:

I am also LOVING the extended stretches between service stops. Unlike DR1 it isn't every other stage gets you to service. Maybe you open an event with a 2 Long stages, but both have a service stop. But then the next stop isn't until SS5

yes, they brought this over from Dirt 4 (not the tire management, of course). it's really good, because you really have to manage the damage you take, especially if you only have one or two engineers. I imagine it'd get easier with more, but they are so expensive (the 3rd is 480.000 and I expect the 4th to be double that) and the cars are just so much prettier...

On 3/6/2019 at 5:32 AM, Sammoo said:

Well, I am not going to say no to this because if the removal of these features helps others enjoy the game then sobeit. Instead I would argue that Codemasters implement a scale whereby people can choose to turn off these options but offering a financial incentive to keep them on. This way those who want to enjoy the game with the realism of expensive costs and a lack of restarts, can. Those who don't want that, can turn them off but incur a penalty. I think this would be fairest way to do it, and help more people to enjoy the game their way.

I write this because I am concerned that we could lose a feature that has enhanced the gameplay.

All I ask is that these features are not gotten rid of entirely because that, in my opinion, would damage the game where it is the strongest- immersion. (But, please don't get rid of restarts completely, I still make the odd **** so having a few do-overs is still required occasionally).

I have heard, and continue to hear, a lot of gripes about this game. But, you know what? I love it- great job, Codemasters.

Anyone else think like this, or have suggestions about this scenario, or just want to call me an idiot?

Let me know.

this is also exactly the system from Dirt 4. you could allow yourself infinite restarts, or 10, or 5, 3, 1 or 0 per event, with each reduction increasing your cash payout. it was the same for all the assists and the difficulty level you played at, and was of course designed to encourage people to make it harder for themselves. you unlocked the next championship in the career by coming top 3, so coming first in every stage wasn't necessary, and it was a really great system, except the bonuses for making it harder weren't big enough, I think.

I also recently discovered after some particularly colourful driving in DR 2.0 that if you got really annoyed in the middle of a stage hoping to be able to cheat and get a restart that way, instead it took you to the next service area in the event and you received the maximum possible time for all of the stages in between, including the one you had been on. I do not recommend doing this. the last three stages in my poor Fulvia were not happy ones...

[sorry for the tangent, but...] come to think of it, it's weird that Dirt 4 had a lot of great features that don't seem to have made it into this game, and I really don't understand why. the main criticisms were about the handling and the repetitive tracks (fair - though on the other hand you could never memorize learn them), but like being able to drive at every hour of the day at every rally location in every possible weather condition was really, really well done. 

Edited by ianism

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