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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

"Should have"

"Slap me in the face"

The entitlement mentality is strong in this one.

Move to a communist country and let us know how awesome the rally game software is pleaz

You're right. Everything that happens in capitalist countries is ALWAYS correct. No room for criticism ever. How dare you. Greed is a nonexistent concept which only exists in the bible.

 

Edited by bbbwww
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15 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

"Should have"

"Slap me in the face"

The entitlement mentality is strong in this one.

Move to a communist country and let us know how awesome the rally game software is pleaz

They have some great rally games, actually. But the count down on the stage start line is a bit weird. It keeps saying 'On you Marx, get set, go..' 

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1 hour ago, Cortextual said:

"I can't be the only one" is not a subject. Come now chaps, just because we live in the age of clickbait titles doesn't mean we have to sink to their level, we're better than that. 

Sorry it wasn't intentional. 

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4 minutes ago, MrMeow said:

Sorry it wasn't intentional. 

I wouldn't be sorry- it got us all talking and debating things in a surprisingly mature manner.

Besides, and although I did make a joke off the back of it, the reason I clicked on your thread is because of the title- it appealed to the writer inside of me, as much of my work always starts with a very vague title; If you head into something already knowing what it will be about then where is the fun in learning as you go. You also won't have an open mind because the title has already installed an opinion in your mind one way or the other- whether we admit it or not. 

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how about this... "an absolute mess and they refuse to talk to their paying customers about what they are working on for a patch infact communication has been that bad from Codemasters we dont even know if they are working on a patch" like... really? what mess??  i think there's something wrong with peoples expectations these days..  i realy think this game is a blast to be honest.. love the new stages and having alot of fun online in RX.  oh and i dont think season 2 will bring any new or old stages, because codies said season 2 would be RX DLC so im guessing they either add killarney or Riga (latvia) maybe COTA from the 2018 season  (would make it complete) or Spa and Abu dhabi from the 2019 season.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Sammoo said:

I wouldn't be sorry- it got us all talking and debating things in a surprisingly mature manner.

Besides, and although I did make a joke off the back of it, the reason I clicked on your thread is because of the title- it appealed to the writer inside of me, as much of my work always starts with a very vague title; If you head into something already knowing what it will be about then where is the fun in learning as you go. You also won't have an open mind because the title has already installed an opinion in your mind one way or the other- whether we admit it or not. 

I think it's important to differentiate between different types of writing though, in this case the subject line is there specifically to give people an idea of whether they are interested in it. It's not a pay-per-click article or a thrilling novel. That said, I agree there's nothing to be sorry for, it's an interesting thread and I was just spouting my bull**** opinions. I do it a lot but they're no more valid than anyone else's.

I do hope this debate on social policy continues though, there aren't enough arguments on internet forums 😛

Edited by Cortextual
I don't have to justify my edits to you computer! I am human.
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4 minutes ago, Cortextual said:

I think it's important to differentiate between different types of writing though, in this case the subject line is there specifically to give people an idea of whether they are interested in it. It's not a pay-per-click article or a thrilling novel. That said, I agree there's nothing to be sorry for, it's an interesting thread and I was just spouting my bull**** opinions. I do it a lot but they're no more valid than anyone else's.

I do hope this debate on social policy continues though, there aren't enough arguments on internet forums 😛

A very fair point. Indeed I have always favoured disassociation when writing, chiefly because I write novels and short stories usually of a psychological nature, so this technique adds that narrative. 

In a case such as a subject line I still find this approach valid in order to keep the readers mind open, and to grab attention. However, I recognise your point about the formality of a subject line- I guess it's each to their own, really. But again, you should never discredit your opinions; as you pointed out it has brought us down a new avenue of conversation and, to your credit, you appreciate both sides of the argument which is exactly the open minded approach that vague titles encourage... (I gave myself a headache connecting those two points together. I think it just about worked though).

And anyway, clickbait is bloody irritating as it is usually pointless content serving only as a waste of time and it misuses a genuine writing technique, devaluing it in the process... 

But, as you say, this is also just my opinion. (I need to lay down now).

Shall we just agree that it is clickbait, it may have been a little unnecessary but it served a purpose therefor not contributing to the slurry of the majority of online clickbaiters?

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21 minutes ago, Sammoo said:

Shall we just agree that it is clickbait, it may have been a little unnecessary but it served a purpose therefor not contributing to the slurry of the majority of online clickbaiters?

Ok, in this case I guess we can just agree to agree.

As for the actual topic at hand. I also wish everything was free, but people gotta food on the table. I just wish more of the money went to the people that actually do the work and have the talent, and less to the old dudes who never played a video game in their lives, but that's another conversation. I also wish they would include some new tracks in the DLC, bit lame to have only old ones. I am also very entitled. Give me things, and I better like them god dammit, or you'll rue the day you gave me things!

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1 minute ago, Cortextual said:

Ok, in this case I guess we can just agree to agree.

As for the actual topic at hand. I also wish everything was free, but people gotta food on the table. I just wish more of the money went to the people that actually do the work and have the talent, and less to the old dudes who never played a video game in their lives, but that's another conversation. I also wish they would include some new tracks in the DLC, bit lame to have only old ones. I am also very entitled. Give me things, and I better like them god dammit, or you'll rue the day you gave me things!

Glad we agree 😂. Now to sort out Brexit?

Entitled is just another way of saying that you know what you want and will vocalise that opinion. It is entitled people who change the world; the negative connotations around the trait usually stem from those who use it in a way to discourage that change. I fully accept that I am also entitled and very opinionated, but balance that by being open minded whenever possible. 

I certainly agree that more money should go to the actual talent behind the developers, instead of the shareholders etc... but that is 'capitalism', or at least our version of it. 

I saw a story about a developer who built an indie game using money from a funding site. He now makes enough money from the game itself that he is actually paying back those who funded him. In essence, this is capitalism but goes to illustrate the point that there are good developers out there, albeit indie ones, and by drawing attention to this hopefully an attitude change may occur. 

The guys and girls behind this game deserve recognition for this game, both in monitory and reputation, not to be lambasted with the slander that seems a matter of course these days.  (I am hoping that if I am very nice about them they might read this and design a Safari rally... hint hint, codemasters).  

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I agree, it feels dirty and anti-consumer (not "consumer-friendly" as RodgerDavies likes to keep saying.) Of course we all understand it takes money and resources to develop content, but there are other ways to go about the process. If they really did not have time in the schedule to implement these previous rally locations to be included in the base game, then they could have slowly re-worked them to be included as free updates. Obviously free updates don't generate revenue directly, but they do generate it indirectly by drawing in new customers to the product - granted, it takes at least a tiny bit of marketing effort, such as a Steam front-page spread, to get the word out - but the same end result is achieved, AND customers feel great that free content was added.

Meanwhile, NEW locations could be developed and released as standard full-price DLC. Nobody would feel miffed about these DLCs (other than the pure anti-DLC crowd.)

This is pretty much what everyone was expecting, so I'm still kind of surprised (though I guess not, being on the official CM forums) that so many people go around defending this practice. I do know some of the better-known Youtubers like Jimmy Broadbent and GamerMuscle made it clear they felt the same way as OP and me. It just feels dirty, pun not intended. By the way, it's even more egregious with the DLC cars that are from DR1. There was a thread on reddit the other day where someone converted a car from Dirt Rally to DR2. It had a couple of texture errors, but basically it ported directly over. L-A-Z-Y.

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3 minutes ago, ShodanCat said:

I agree, it feels dirty and anti-consumer (not "consumer-friendly" as RodgerDavies likes to keep saying.) Of course we all understand it takes money and resources to develop content, but there are other ways to go about the process. If they really did not have time in the schedule to implement these previous rally locations to be included in the base game, then they could have slowly re-worked them to be included as free updates. Obviously free updates don't generate revenue directly, but they do generate it indirectly by drawing in new customers to the product - granted, it takes at least a tiny bit of marketing effort, such as a Steam front-page spread, to get the word out - but the same end result is achieved, AND customers feel great that free content was added.

Meanwhile, NEW locations could be developed and released as standard full-price DLC. Nobody would feel miffed about these DLCs (other than the pure anti-DLC crowd.)

This is pretty much what everyone was expecting, so I'm still kind of surprised (though I guess not, being on the official CM forums) that so many people go around defending this practice. I do know some of the better-known Youtubers like Jimmy Broadbent and GamerMuscle made it clear they felt the same way as OP and me. It just feels dirty, pun not intended. By the way, it's even more egregious with the DLC cars that are from DR1. There was a thread on reddit the other day where someone converted a car from Dirt Rally to DR2. It had a couple of texture errors, but basically it ported directly over. L-A-Z-Y.

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from.

But ultimately we have a better game than DR1, in terms of gameplay, and six new rallies. I am not certain I would want to buy the old rallies to supplement the new games as I have already played those, so I might decide not to buy them. Ultimately that is a choice that everyone has the ability to make. I would have been upset if they had given us back the old rallies with the new locations behind a pay wall.

The issue may be that Wales and Sweden etc... are staples of the rally world, iconic within the sport, so codemasters could not really leave them out entirely, I just don't see how people can get upset about having a choice to spend money or not.

And I think it is perfectly acceptable to defend Codemasters for what they have made here- it is a great game. DR1 was a tough act to follow and I think they have knocked it out of the park with DR2.

I would love to see additional new locations added, but I am content with what I have already. I have been playing DR2 since it came out and it will be another year before I start itching for new content. I know that there are gamers out there who complete everything at a rapid pace and want to move on but therein lies another issue: Do the developers rush to create more leading to sub-par content (Something that they are already being blasted for, rightly or wrongly) or do they take their time and release finished content at a slower rate to the irritation of the fore mentioned gamers?

Ultimately, Codemasters will be damned whatever they do. It is a trend that has grown across all developers regardless of quality content and I can't help but feel that this is almost fashionable; to find faults and discourage in a misguided attempt to gain personal gratification through the attention of others by either being the first or most prevalent to deride, claiming that they have a better approach/knowledge etc... And this is something that is very easy to do, but ask them to provide proof of this with considered and hard evidence and often those claims fall apart.

Instead, we should be happy with what we have and offer criticisms in a constructive manner without saying things like 'I wont buy', and by making demands/threats because it comes across as chucking ones toys out of the pram.  The former of which is beautifully demonstrated by the opening of your argument; you offer an opinion and the reasons behind them, even hinting on an approach that makes good sense- very nicely done.

I guess what I am driving at, and why I will defend CM, is that I feel alot of the complaints are made in an attempt to be 'fashionable' or to be petulant, while the genuine and constructive criticisms get lost in the mire. It's a lack of balance, pandemic since the birth of online reviews and is evident in all sectors of business, not just gaming. I have an aversion to that.

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I refuse to just "be happy with what we have." It's my right as a consumer to be critical of what I deem to be poor practices.

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Posted (edited)

I'm with you on this one honestly, i did expect something else rather than rebadged content with some new shine over it, even though any extra content is always welcome.

I think CM miss stapped on this one and it should've been new content for the Deluxe edition/season pass, and this rabadged content to be paid for a dime or 2 next to the Deluxe edition/season pass.

Edited by Gerbie

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Don't mind the remasters being DLC, but it is quite overpriced and so is the base game.

Also a lot of functionality and features missing that weren't exactly mentioned but that I had expected to be in on account of them being in previous titles. Codemasters is all too careful with their wordings and it's always disappointing when you find out. Should've just come right out and said what's in and what's not in.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ShodanCat said:

I refuse to just "be happy with what we have." It's my right as a consumer to be critical of what I deem to be poor practices.

Yup, Don't get me wrong I think what we have as a game is great but this approach isn't very consumer friendly at all. It just sets a really bad tone for the direction of the game.

Edited by MrMeow
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, tr222 said:
 

If Sweden, Monte Carlo, Germany, Finland and Wales are added, does that mean that all stages of these countries are the same as in Dirt Rally 1? Or at least the routes are changed?

 

 

They are going to the same routes unfortunately 😩

Edited by Pieman99

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2 hours ago, MrMeow said:

Yup, Don't get me wrong I think what we have as a game is great but this approach isn't very consumer friendly at all. It just sets a really bad tone for the direction of the game.

 

I'd argue the approach is fairly consumer friendly. Let's say their budget for game plus one DLC covered 3 updated venues and 6 new ones.

 

So 2 choices:

1 - Base game comes with 3 old and 5 new locations. DLC seasons then add 1 new location each.

2 - Base game comes with 6 new locations. DLC season adds the 3 updated venues. 

 

#2 gives everyone the new locations and only people who want the updated content too 'have' to pay for the extra.

 

On top of that, each DLC venue can be purchased separately, so if you only want the snow location, just get that one.

 

I'm looking forward to having the remastered venues personally and hope the Finland, Greece and the UK stages are in the works for in future. I'd much prefer that to a single completely new location.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

 

I'd argue the approach is fairly consumer friendly. Let's say their budget for game plus one DLC covered 3 updated venues and 6 new ones.

 

So 2 choices:

1 - Base game comes with 3 old and 5 new locations. DLC seasons then add 1 new location each.

2 - Base game comes with 6 new locations. DLC season adds the 3 updated venues. 

 

#2 gives everyone the new locations and only people who want the updated content too 'have' to pay for the extra.

 

On top of that, each DLC venue can be purchased separately, so if you only want the snow location, just get that one.

 

I'm looking forward to having the remastered venues personally and hope the Finland, Greece and the UK stages are in the works for in future. I'd much prefer that to a single completely new location.

 

 

^This

Finland and UK stages are the ones I hope we eventually get. Those 2 was my personal favourites in DR.

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14 hours ago, Sammoo said:

Ultimately, Codemasters will be damned whatever they do. 

Nailed it.

Personally I think they have done it the right way round. If CM had put all the original DR stages in the base game and then new stages in the DLC they would have been accused of making gamers pay more to play new content. At least this way round you don't have to pay more to replay the "old" content... 

...that said, I don't see the DR1 additione that way as I think enough has changed (plus we have enough new cars) to make me want to revisit the DR1 locations again. 

I do hope that the latter DLC mix new locations with old as, as much as I want to revisit some of the old stages, I'd like more fresh content as well!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, tbtstt said:

Nailed it.

Personally I think they have done it the right way round. If CM had put all the original DR stages in the base game and then new stages in the DLC they would have been accused of making gamers pay more to play new content. At least this way round you don't have to pay more to replay the "old" content... 

...that said, I don't see the DR1 additione that way as I think enough has changed (plus we have enough new cars) to make me want to revisit the DR1 locations again. 

I do hope that the latter DLC mix new locations with old as, as much as I want to revisit some of the old stages, I'd like more fresh content as well!

i'm generally with you,but i think they've should delay the release a bit,cause there are a lot of issues.  also the communication seems to be not the best, cause evryone believed the new locations are not playable in careermode.

 

but i'm happy with the game and positive that all will be fixed

Edited by teknoid85
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18 minutes ago, teknoid85 said:

i'm generally with you,but i think they've should delay the release a bit,cause there are a lot of issues.  also the communication seems to be not the best, cause evryone believed the new locations are not playable in careermode.

 

but i'm happy with the game and positive that all will be fixed

As has already been said elsewhere I think it would be awkward, if not impossible, to push the DLC release back at this point given how much the timetable has been publicised. If they hadn't have revealed the DLC timetable pre-release then perhaps they could have shifted it slightly. 

I know CM is relatively small compared to some studios but I would assume that they would have planned to keep some resources aside to focus on dealing with post-release bugs while everyone else concentrates on the DLC.

Although I haven't had any issues thus far, for the long term future of the game, I really hope we see some fixes arrive with the first DLC this week. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2019 at 11:42 AM, Sammoo said:

I did see a statement that they had recognised the concerns and are working on them,

They also have recognised concerns about D4 confirming that something is wrong and they are going work on a fix. But as we know it never happened.

Regarding OP, I also don't share his point. Having particular location in one game doesn't mean developer is oblique to provide the same location in game successor for free (ie for owners of predecessor). The reason is simply: it requires additional work. In most cases it's not just about automated converting 3D model to new game. Often 3D scenes have to be updated to match new game standards, infrastructure and technology. It is work which costs resources. As simply as that. It does nothing with how much you were backing the title/company up.

Personally I'm happy they are going to add those stages to DR2 as DLC. One reason is those get polishing (in DR1 quality of stages is inconsistent). Also because DR2 stages to me look "flat", missing hairpins, steep slopes etc.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl

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1 hour ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

Also because DR2 stages to me look "flat", missing hairpins, steep slopes etc.

That's because of the nature of said stages in these rallies. The argentina stages have plenty of hairpins and there are slopes on australian and nz ones as well. Simply the DR1 selection of rallies present more difficult stages than the rest. Both of them are based on their real counterparts.

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29 minutes ago, Riggs said:

That's because of the nature of said stages in these rallies. The argentina stages have plenty of hairpins and there are slopes on australian and nz ones as well. Simply the DR1 selection of rallies present more difficult stages than the rest. Both of them are based on their real counterparts.

can't wait to see  greece  😍 finland and wales  😁

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17 hours ago, Murikka said:

^This

Finland and UK stages are the ones I hope we eventually get. Those 2 was my personal favourites in DR.

no greece???? 😱  😄

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