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AI Times Are Completely Off

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On 4/20/2019 at 12:43 PM, Kjell007 said:

I decided to take on a historic rally with the Aton Martin GT4. I set the AI to the easiest on very easy, that is 1 of 100. 3 of the 4 rallies, Spain, Australia and New Zealand I won easily, but in Poland all the 5 stages was wet, and as a result I lost by several minutes (!) and got 27th. Clearly something is very very wrong! I really hope CM spell some news on this problem soon... 😞

yes, AI times in Poland are better than everywhere else. I've done that historic championship too, but at a difficulty of 31. I came 2nd in the championship, but didn't do anywhere nearly as badly as you in Poland... like 7th or something. 

and 31 difficulty is about right for me with RGT class because I play with the keyboard.

1 hour ago, Scand1Fl1ck said:

I've been experiencing the same thing as everyone else in this thread, though the relative quietness from community in comparison to other issues makes me wonder if the AI issue isn't affecting everyone.

I've had the game since launch but haven't played much do to other obligations. I picked it up again last week and started the Elite career with Group A. The really ridiculous AI times seem to be tied to running order, at least in my case. The previous event was New England and I was last in the running order, winning every stage except for night/rain by a fair to considerable margin - almost all top 10 times on the leaderboard, at worst top 1%. Last night I did Poland and I was second to last in the running order, I won one stage, got 5th in another, and placed second in the rest of the stages. Every single second place was lost to the AI that was behind me in the running order. My pace for Poland was the same as New England, mostly top 10.

I've got two events left and I'm in first with some breathing room but if Masters is crazier than this I don't know how I can compete without memorizing the stages, which is not fun for me.

correct me if I'm wrong. but...

that'll be because the one that's last in the running order is always the one at the top of the leaderboard, no? so if you're second overall, it makes sense that the only one beating you (ie the fastest AI car/driver) is also the only one starting after you, right?

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20 minutes ago, ianism said:

correct me if I'm wrong. but...

that'll be because the one that's last in the running order is always the one at the top of the leaderboard, no? so if you're second overall, it makes sense that the only one beating you (ie the fastest AI car/driver) is also the only one starting after you, right?

I don't know how CM calculates the running order. I believe WRC runs by championship points in reverse order, so the leader is last. I'm the leader in points but another person runs behind me? Also, I finish the last stage at Poland and Phil says something along the lines of "Congrats, we're champions." Uh, no we're not Phil the AI behind us wins.

That still doesn't change the fact that I post a #4 time on the leaderboards out of a field of 3000 and the AI posts a #3 time... on elite.

Edited by Scand1Fl1ck
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Just chiming in here to add weight to the argument.  AI is frustrating for me too.

One point I've noticed that hasn't really been mentioned here is (maybe once before) is the consistency of AI.  The same driver shouldn't be winning each stage by 15-20 seconds.  This is the case for me on Pro driving a 95 Impreza.  S. Bernard wins every stage by literally 15-20 seconds.  So the only way I can win a rally is to beat that goose on every stage.  When he is 20 seconds faster than all other AI, I can rarely get close to him.  

Something is not right for that to occur.  Surely. 

I've been very vocal on the crappy FFB (which I still think is below average), but I can somewhat play with poor FFB.  With crappy AI times, it makes me not want to play at all.

Edited by Ferrethead81
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2 hours ago, Scand1Fl1ck said:

I don't know how CM calculates the running order. I believe WRC runs by championship points in reverse order, so the leader is last. I'm the leader in points but another person runs behind me? Also, I finish the last stage at Poland and Phil says something along the lines of "Congrats, we're champions." Uh, no we're not Phil the AI behind us wins.

That still doesn't change the fact that I post a #4 time on the leaderboards out of a field of 3000 and the AI posts a #3 time... on elite.

It's the reverse actually in the WRC, the leader always opens the road on the thursday/friday.  Then whoever is slowest from that day opens the road on Saturday.  (it's all kinds of ****, but that's another discussion)

Also it is divided into classes, support series run after the main WR cars.

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It's not only you guys at the Master etc. This AI issue is affecting us also in the Open, Clubman and Pro. I've identified some problems in my DR2 history (only 40 hours)

1. Difficulty level between different categories are too big. That's why you see people complaining about different stages. I have difficulty going from Clubman to Pro. Depends on your driving skills.

2. AI is really fast when it comes to straighter sections. Even though I have full tuned car, with custom setups from GTR Techincal, going full throttle (to my skill level) at 5-6 sections, AI still manages to be lot's faster than me (2-6seconds). 

3. AI is sometimes really bad at mid speed sections from 2-4, I can easily go 4-6 seconds faster than AI per section.

4. Sometimes AI makes a "leap": Usually last section of a stage AI just goes "Knight Rider Turbo Mode" and goes 10 seconds faster than me. It does not matter is it 2-4 or 5-6 corners. I'm driving same way than usually.

Edited by zenixinous
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Passing a career at the level of masters, I also faced unrealistic results ai.

It is broken and it needs to be fixed.

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On 4/23/2019 at 11:44 PM, Ferrethead81 said:

Just chiming in here to add weight to the argument.  AI is frustrating for me too.

One point I've noticed that hasn't really been mentioned here is (maybe once before) is the consistency of AI.  The same driver shouldn't be winning each stage by 15-20 seconds.  This is the case for me on Pro driving a 95 Impreza.  S. Bernard wins every stage by literally 15-20 seconds.  So the only way I can win a rally is to beat that goose on every stage.  When he is 20 seconds faster than all other AI, I can rarely get close to him.  

Something is not right for that to occur.  Surely. 

I've been very vocal on the crappy FFB (which I still think is below average), but I can somewhat play with poor FFB.  With crappy AI times, it makes me not want to play at all.

I noticed this on historic career the same 2 AI guys winning every stage between them but one more than the other but always finish 2nd unless i could finish top 2. No other AI drivers need apply.

Edited by FLAW3D

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Funny thing i wanted you to know:

just finished my first stage in my second masters career. first rally is argentina.

Stage is called something blabla ...y rocas inversa. finished the stage in a M3 e30 in 4:33 something only a few hundreds behind the WR. (2nd on leadboards)

Guess what place i´ve got  against AI ? you´re right....17th overall. i don´t know if i should cry or burst out in laugh about this. Fastest AI finished it in 4:18.

Edited by JoeBlob21
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I was wondering how AI compared to the actual leaderboards….I'm only on Elite given how I go in Daily Events, can only assume most people are stuck either at or one rung below that. It's like the AI takes your time and just subtracts 20 seconds from it for the top 10 cars.

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3 hours ago, JoeBlob21 said:

Funny thing i wanted you to know:

just finished my first stage in my second masters career. first rally is argentina.

Stage is called something blabla ...y rocas inversa. finished the stage in a M3 e30 in 4:33 something only a few hundreds behind the WR. (2nd on leadboards)

Guess what place i´ve got  against AI ? you´re right....17th overall. i don´t know if i should cry or burst out in laugh about this. Fastest AI finished it in 4:18.

I'm curious, was that only a few hundredths behind the My Team WR leader or the Time Trial WR leader? Those times can be very different. I'm also curious because I love the E30 and absolutely stomped the Elite AI with it in Argentina by pretty large chunks of time. So I'd be impressed if the Masters for that class got dramatically more difficult to the point they were dropping 20-30 seconds off a stage between the two difficulties (it wasn't uncommon for me to win ARG in Elite by 15+ second stages).

 

Also was this a Day/Dry stage or a Night/Wet? Just trying to figure out what is causing the issues with AI the most.

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4 hours ago, JoeBlob21 said:

Funny thing i wanted you to know:

just finished my first stage in my second masters career. first rally is argentina.

Stage is called something blabla ...y rocas inversa. finished the stage in a M3 e30 in 4:33 something only a few hundreds behind the WR. (2nd on leadboards)

Guess what place i´ve got  against AI ? you´re right....17th overall. i don´t know if i should cry or burst out in laugh about this. Fastest AI finished it in 4:18.

Agreed, i’m finding a similar thing. Poland is the other major culprit, yet Monte and Spain are really easy. 

Reminds me of DR1, Germany and Monte were easy yet Greece was solid, but still significantly easier than a some of the locations on dr2. The common denominator is the tarmac perhaps.  

Edited by Pieman99

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Single picture that perfectly sums up the issue with AI times not being affected by very bad visibility conditions (night + heavy rain):

J860HfX.png

I made virtually no mistakes on all of these stages - no spins, no crashes - yet on both night stages with heavy rain I finished considerably lower because, unlike the AI, I couldn't see the road through the rain nuddles.

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I'm seeing the same... Poland and Wet weather anywhere, the AI is extra hard to compete with, even with clean runs.

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So I’m back..... I started a second Masters season for the hell of it (still 2000cc class -C4) and Rally Australia was first. I could not believe it but I won every single stage and finished first by almost two minutes!!! (see image). I actually thought that maybe Codies had fixed the AI.... but.....no. 🤦‍♂️ Second rally in (NZ) and I’ve completed 6 stages and I’m down by a over a minute in 5th place (was as far down as 13th but fought my way back up with some serious white knuckle, sweating driving....😓) Still, I was 22 seconds slower then P1 on the long 16km stage at night in the rain pushing like I’ve never pushed before......***??!

 What a friggin mess of a system (or whatever they use) Codemasters has implemented for the AI! How is it they don’t test this stuff out before signing off on it.... I mean it’s not like this is their first rodeo when it comes to rally games...Crikey Codemasters!!!

I think we should all keep posting on here until our frustrations and concerns are addressed! I don’t actually have a lot of interest in playing the Career mode with this train wreck for AI but for the sake of this thread and in the hopes (🙏) that Codies actually listen or pay attention, I will persevere! 

 

 

FDF55613-96DE-49E9-BA63-5909B3DF1098.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Cdnrally said:

So I’m back..... I started a second Masters season for the hell of it (still 2000cc class -C4) and Rally Australia was first. I could not believe it but I won every single stage and finished first by almost two minutes!!! (see image). I actually thought that maybe Codies had fixed the AI.... but.....no. 🤦‍♂️ Second rally in (NZ) and I’ve completed 6 stages and I’m down by a over a minute in 5th place (was as far down as 13th but fought my way back up with some serious white knuckle, sweating driving....😓) Still, I was 22 seconds slower then P1 on the long 16km stage at night in the rain pushing like I’ve never pushed before......***??!

 What a friggin mess of a system (or whatever they use) Codemasters has implemented for the AI! How is it they don’t test this stuff out before signing off on it.... I mean it’s not like this is their first rodeo when it comes to rally games...Crikey Codemasters!!!

I think we should all keep posting on here until our frustrations and concerns are addressed! I don’t actually have a lot of interest in playing the Career mode with this train wreck for AI but for the sake of this thread and in the hopes (🙏) that Codies actually listen or pay attention, I will persevere! 

 

 

FDF55613-96DE-49E9-BA63-5909B3DF1098.jpeg

I gave up because of this in masters. Elite was difficult, but I won the championship on my first try (I had some bad rallyes but overall, with the right setup I won some of them and I always finished in a podium position). But Masters is just horrible, I can beat them. Now I only play online events, but it's frustrating because I like career mode and select wich category of car I want to play.

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17 hours ago, Mike Dee said:

I'm curious, was that only a few hundredths behind the My Team WR leader or the Time Trial WR leader? Those times can be very different. I'm also curious because I love the E30 and absolutely stomped the Elite AI with it in Argentina by pretty large chunks of time. So I'd be impressed if the Masters for that class got dramatically more difficult to the point they were dropping 20-30 seconds off a stage between the two difficulties (it wasn't uncommon for me to win ARG in Elite by 15+ second stages).

 

Also was this a Day/Dry stage or a Night/Wet? Just trying to figure out what is causing the issues with AI the most.

oh i didn´t know that there is a difference between MY TEAM and TIME TRIAL leaderboards. if so. i´m second behind the MY TEAM WR.

the track was wet but no rain and daylight.

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On 4/30/2019 at 10:35 AM, teknoid85 said:

AI times need to be redone from scratch 👍

 

@cmMikeRobson

I agree. The whole career mode for me has gone from a bore to a chore.

In Open/Club/Pro I won every stage at every event without any upgrades by a country mile. On Elite i'm struggling to get into the top 15 with full upgrades.

The game forces you to know each stage like the back of your hand and then drive like an idiot in order to get anywhere. That's not what rallying is about.

The sense of speed is already exagerated anyway and whilst it does give you an adrenalin rush it is also what pushes the game into arcade territory for me.

A slider for the AI in career would be a simple solution.

In the meantime i'm sticking with Custom Championship. At least that's enjoyable.

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1 hour ago, EvilCee said:

 

The game forces you to know each stage like the back of your hand and then drive like an idiot in order to get anywhere. That's not what rallying is about.

 

This is why Time Trial records mean nothing to me.

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The AI times must just be a range of figures in a database right? It's not like there are actual AI out there driving the stage, so surely - SURELY - this is trivial to adjust.

Does anyone know if this can be modded?

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AI Masters Update:

I’ll continue with my AI updates regarding my 2nd attempt at the Masters Championship and the wonkiness of Codies AI!

So when I left off last I was halfway through the second rally (New Zealand). I was sitting fifth and after setting better times worked my way up to third to finish on the podium. However, I was still a minute and 20 seconds slower than the top driver and I do not see it being possible to close that gap as I was pushing like hell! What was to my benefit though was that the driver that won did not place well on the first rally so I was now tied for overall points with the driver who placed second in New Zealand and Australia at 54 points.

 Next was the New England rally. Overall I would say the AI was closest to what I think it should be at. I set top three times for the entire rally but was not able to match the top driver but it was at least realistic. However, though I was down by 30 seconds after eight stages, he suffered gear box problems for two stages in a row and lost significant time. So going into the final two stages I was up by 12 seconds.  It was still not easy though as I placed third on both stages and only won by 2.7 seconds. I would have placed second if not for the gearbox issues the top driver had. The times the AI drivers were setting on this rally was a lot more realistic, with drivers placing in different positions on most stages. So Codemasters is capable of creating an AI system that can work it just does not have the consistency it should.

So the driver I was originally tied with placed third and so I am now up by six points in the championship. Next is Sweden which of course is new and I have no clue what the AI times will be like. I’m usually pretty fast in the snow but you just never know what to expect....

D809806E-CB47-4F6B-B62C-66421CCC292B.thumb.jpeg.9cc3a3f6356b0d9c09d46add733eaa5b.jpegA0A34838-9D07-4B3D-A168-86026F8FF2C5.thumb.jpeg.b723977d47a1defdcd4f53d80195b3d4.jpeg

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On 5/1/2019 at 2:49 PM, JesseDeya said:

The AI times must just be a range of figures in a database right? It's not like there are actual AI out there driving the stage, so surely - SURELY - this is trivial to adjust.

Does anyone know if this can be modded?

 I agree, in today’s day and age this should not be that difficult to change but I’m not a developer so I’m really not sure...😬

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4 hours ago, Cdnrally said:

 I agree, in today’s day and age this should not be that difficult to change but I’m not a developer so I’m really not sure...😬

a while ago Christina said that "AI is a huge undertaking."

i guess they need to work out how much to slow the AI down by but since they aren't on the track and the times are just generated, i agree, can it really be that hard? they really need to add a modifier to slow the AI down at night and in rain, and in both together.

it's more than 2 months after launch and since everything is sent to their servers via Racenet they should surely have enough data by now. AI times at Masters level should be what, maybe equivalent to the top 50 human times (top 100?) and that gives them a good range to work in. and they should know on average how much slower people are at night/in the rain so they should be able to work out how much to add to the AI times for those stage conditions.

they have TONS and TONS of real-world data from players because of Racenet. why not use it?

 

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25 minutes ago, Tranzitive said:

a while ago Christina said that "AI is a huge undertaking."

i guess they need to work out how much to slow the AI down by but since they aren't on the track and the times are just generated, i agree, can it really be that hard? they really need to add a modifier to slow the AI down at night and in rain, and in both together.

it's more than 2 months after launch and since everything is sent to their servers via Racenet they should surely have enough data by now. AI times at Masters level should be what, maybe equivalent to the top 50 human times (top 100?) and that gives them a good range to work in. and they should know on average how much slower people are at night/in the rain so they should be able to work out how much to add to the AI times for those stage conditions.

they have TONS and TONS of real-world data from players because of Racenet. why not use it?

 

I think she meant racing against the AI in Rallycross tbh, No way is changing some times a huge undertaking. 

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6 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

No way is changing some times a huge undertaking. 

you would think but then why have they still not been fixed after so long?

and she didn't specifically mention "AI rallycross", just AI in general.

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