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DR 2.0 - One Month Later

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Posted (edited)

Some folks reading this will disagree with my writings, and downvote me or chime in with rhetoric that I am being negative etc., but really I am not trying to be. This is just honest feedback from a long time loyal supporter...so:

Firstly - I have to wonder if enlisting Jon Armstrong was the best idea. They had a formula with DR1 - and it worked. While not a total fail, most of us agree that’s DR2.0 has fallen short of expectation across multiple levels, mainly FFB. It was advertised and talked about at length that through development, Jon was closely consulting with Codies regarding the driving model/design of DR2.0, specifically in relation to the handling model (which includes FFB). I have to wonder if this was a blessing or a curse? While the physics model is amazing, I can’t fathom how so many things with the FFB went awry. Outside of that - all the connectivity issues, audio issues, lighting issues, and various other bugs. The patch didn’t seem to remedy much of anything (we are now 15 pages deep on the patch bugs reporting thread post v1.2 update), and it would seem the game has suffered from poor sales; subsequently being reduced to $38 CAD on Xbox and PlayStation afternonly 1 month! 😳 WRC 7 is still priced at $69, and it has been out for 2 years! 

It is upsetting to see how this game had, and is being - lambasted across social media platforms...which has undoubtedly forced a price drop to incentivize additional sales. No one could have anticipated such a poor adoption rate this early on, especially given the pedigree of DR1 (best Rally game ever!). No question the game appeals to a ‘niche’ audience, most of whom are hard core Rally fans. To that end, PC adoption is key and that community seems less than happy with the current state of affairs. The console versions of this game, especially PlayStation version - seems like an afterthought in some ways.

The price drop coupled with the seemingly widespread poor reception across all platforms concerns me becuase if the game is not generating revenue commensurate to projected sales, how much long term support will it see before they wash their hands of it? Simple business principles would suggest poor ROI = curtailing of resources.

So here we are a month later...and many (most?) of us are left ‘wanting’ in some regard.

The next update will be pivotal to ensuring the long term viability/success of DR 2.0. Lord knows I hope they get it right. I am still playing despite my frustrations, and I will continue to do so. Even though I am dismayed with some of the features (namely the FFB), I still picked up Monte Carlo to help support the cause.

There are many redeeming qualities to this game, and as I have said numerous times now - the game has a great skeleton on which to build, but it’s lacking muscle in some key areas. With fandom fading, and WRC8 on the horizon, time is short - and so is the gaming community’s patience (unfortunately).

I commend Codies for all they have done with Rally racing titles over the years, I sincerely hope they get the bugs ironed quickly, and bring this game up to speed before we realize a Rally nightmare : ‘TERMINAL DAMAGE’.

Edited by Buckwilder
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Posted (edited)

I can´t understand why they didn´t learn anything from DiRT Rally 1, there is lot´s of things which work better than with DR2.
Is the team totally different?
Releasing working game (at least same state than DR1 is after patches) would give more money to makers than like this we wait patch forever and maybe never get it or if we get then game price is something else than when it released.

Those DLC tracks and cars don´t compensate lagging FFB, unsharp graphics, unrealistic glare and totally dark shadows which you can´t light even with headlights etc

On Twitter DiRT just hype game with videos and pictures, no talk about problems and if they get those fixed or not.

I have deluxe edition, but started play DR1 again and games like Assetto and Project Cars 2.

Edited by SimFunny
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2 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

The console versions of this game, especially PlayStation version - seems like an afterthought in some ways.

+1 (please at least fix the soft focus / excessive bloom effect)

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Posted (edited)

the always-online connectivity has, i think, massively affected sales. One month later myself and many other people are still having Racenet connectivity issues. just this past week i had issues with one of the daily events, and had problems twice in career mode. when i do a network test via the PS4 home menu, my speed comes out at 250-280mbps down and around 1.2mbps up. this should be more than fast enough. my PS4 is also connected directly to the modem with a CAT6 LAN cable, it doesn't even go through an intermediary router. 

the PS4 version is just a disaster for some reason. no idea why as F1 2018 looks incredible on the PS4 Pro.

i don't think Jon Armstrong had anything to do with the FFB though. i think the FFB issues might be caused by the track degradation model. just a thought. 

i mentioned this in the dirtgame subreddit, but instead of putting the game on sale i think they seriously need to work on fixing the PS4 and other console versions, with the PS4 version as their top priority. 

and less night stages. i keep getting rallies in career mode where 3/8 stages are at night, which is kinda ridiculous.

Edited by Tranzitive
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The first Dirt rally have a complete new team what I have told me. This team have not from start in a rally game an analog handbrake. They have several test drivers 

and nobody have seem to react on all this  problems we have to deal now. I think that lots of stages feels likes your wheel floats over the road and theres no grip at all.

 Disepointed.

 

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Posted (edited)

These devs that get drivers on board is it not just a PR stunt? I often feel it is tbh rather than the race drivers spending hundreds of hours helping the devs out. SMS had Ben Collins and the other Hamilton and quite a number of others on board yet some of the tunes in the game were awful...also if you have 5 race drivers on board why just a basic single tune for each car? Onto DR and hey look we have a rally driver on board that automatically makes our game amazing ... turns out nope quite a bit worse than the first title.

PR Stunt.

Edited by FLAW3D

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, SliskTobbi said:

The first Dirt rally have a complete new team what I have told me. This team have not from start in a rally game an analog handbrake. They have several test drivers 

and nobody have seem to react on all this  problems we have to deal now. I think that lots of stages feels likes your wheel floats over the road and theres no grip at all.

 Disepointed.

 

I think thats down to the lack of FFB feels like your driving a boat alot of the times.

As soon as you stick DR 1 on you feel what the car is doing giving you complete control giving you confidence on going quicker. I never feel in complete control with DR 2.0 or that confident that i can go quicker than i am.

Edited by FLAW3D
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Patience, grasshoppers. There's an FFB fix in the works. Let's start judging the entire game, and Jon Armstrong, after that? It's not like the handling is some kind of disaster now, is it? Rather seems like it's only just the best overall handling of any rally game, ever.

Cut them some slack, eh?

 

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2 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

Patience, grasshoppers.

I wonder how many people here are old enough to recognize this reference or even know who David Carradine was!

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2 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

Patience, grasshoppers. There's an FFB fix in the works. Let's start judging the entire game, and Jon Armstrong, after that? It's not like the handling is some kind of disaster now, is it? Rather seems like it's only just the best overall handling of any rally game, ever.

Cut them some slack, eh?

 

I agree brother. I did make note that the physics model is wonderful, and that the game in many respects is awesome. I am cutting slack for sure, I still love the game and improve each day I play it. Oddly the FFB while bothersome is not affecting me as much now as it did early on, becuase I am getting used to it. That said, still needs fixing.

I am just impatient and want things fixed. When I saw the price drop it made kinda hot under the collar, but I understand why they did it.

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Posted (edited)

My one month summary - I've already doubled my total D4 playtime in one month.

FFB isn't an issue for me after spending 5 minutes trying some recommended settings.

Connectivity was only an issue when I was trying to use Mods - no longer an issue personally.

Locations are excellent and Monte has got me and everyone else very excited at the possibility of future D1 locations to come.

The core experience in this game is absolutely excellent.

The only remaining concern for me is that Clubs still isn't here. CM cant afford more delay here or it will be D4 all over again: only the core community will care by the time it's released and they'll miss the chance to make the game a staple for sim racing communities like racedepartment

Edited by pigloaf
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My Rating : Xbox One X. 

Game Modes - 3/10

Graphics - 7/10

Physics - 4/10

Special Stages : 4/10

FFB : 2/10

Co-Driver 5/10 ( Ver.PL )

Rating : 25/60 - Big disappointment considering Dirt Rally 1.0

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My biggest concern right now is the very slim community engagement. There are so many issues that haven't been addressed at all, like some users having a repetitive stutter with certain wheels/devices plugged in (which is a game-breaking issue for those affected,) the totally out of whack AI times, the bugged auto-wipers setting, some RX AI issues, and so on. Some of these absolutely should have been addressed by now (I'm saying addressed not even patched.) The future is looking grim for DR2 based on what I've seen so far, and it's a shame because I agree with Buckwilder that the basic framework is all there and is fantastic.

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6 hours ago, SimRallyPoland said:

Physics - 4/10 

Really? Come on, that's ridiculous.

6 hours ago, SimRallyPoland said:

Co-Driver 5/10 ( Ver.PL )

I agree with this, the notes are actually ok, but I wish he would calm down, his over-excitement is stressing me out :]

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18 hours ago, Buckwilder said:

There's an FFB fix in the works. Let's start judging the entire game, and Jon Armstrong, after that? It's not like the handling is some kind of disaster now, is it? Rather seems like it's only just the best overall handling of any rally game, ever.

Just wondering how is it possible to judge handling if FFB doesn't work as should be?
Also how Jon was helping in physics development if there was no proper FFB.

Another thing comes to my mind. During DR1 development (and post-release), CM was communicating intensively, publishing more or less technical blog posts. To me it's obvious they chose the same communication model known from D4. It's not promising...

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Posted (edited)

I'm optimistic for the future of the game, and am still playing plenty.  That I've clocked 30 something hours in a game with some fairly glaring issues speaks to the strength of the underlying product.

But yeah, it's kinda getting to the point where permanent damage is being done to the game's reputation.  The shill professional reviewers have done what they're paid to do - spin some good press - but now they've moved on to the next shiny thing there's little to do but watch customer ratings tank.  A game that has a near 40% negative review rate on Steam, with such a disparity between customer ratings and what the paid publications gave it (9/10 all round) should, I would have thought, be of grave concern to the people that made it.

This strikes me as problematic as nothing will make a developer give up on a title quicker than poor sales to fund that additional development.  Cant help but wonder if the commitment to 6 months worth of DLC impacts their ability to support the game, given the ongoing resources the content sucks up.  Actually couldnt believe what I was reading going through the minor issues in the v1.2 patch notes and seeing hardly a single major complaint had been addressed.

Their response to the community's feedback really makes me question how well they understand the market.  I get that these things are difficult and they cant fix stuff overnight, but "sit tight and wait for more information from us" doesn't cut it, not for a driving sim.  That's how a bank deals with its customers. The lack of engagement (repeating the same thing doesn't count as engagement btw) feels like such a lost opportunity to build goodwill with a community that wants to see the game excel.

Edited by mshagg
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Posted (edited)

And the community 'manager' makes some great work staying under the radar. Hey @ChristinaMc, how about SOME info about current state of affairs with DR2, or at least about bugs getting acknowledged? Or is it another DiRT 4 plan coming into action?

Edited by BloodCat
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Posted (edited)

I can only shake my head to such arrogance and entitlement. Tagging Christina for every tiny and irrelevant question you have will get you nowhere. I can understand that in some other forums devs have stopped interacting with their so called 'community'. Show some respect, jeezus christ. You can get your point across in a mannered way. I realize, It really takes tons and tons of patience and diplomacy being a community manager. I'd be on the limit after just a few days already. Just awful 👎

Edited by richie
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Posted (edited)

Respect is not meant to be given for free. It has to be deserved.
I wouldn't say that releasing half-baked product (regardless it's nowadays trend) is enough reason to get respect.
However I cannot see disrespect in posts. Commenting the situation is not a sign of disrespect.

BTW 'Community Manager' is a role dedicated to communicate with community. Unfortunately I cannot say Christina manages anything. She is doing PR instead, ie she is stepping in only when there are positive things to say, otherwise stays mute.

 

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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1 hour ago, richie said:

You can get your point across in a mannered way.

And what way would that be, exactly? My point, in that matter, being the devs silence considering the bugs, at least. Even with D4 there was some communication -- DiRT shows, roadbooks, forum posts... until that came to pure lies and eventual silence. But for DR2 almost all meaningful communication went down heavily right after the release. Isn't it possible that only the skeleton crew is left to finish the DLCs (which must be heavily underway) and all the others have been switched to, say, F1 2019?..

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41 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

BTW 'Community Manager' is a role dedicated to communicate with community. Unfortunately I cannot say Christina manages anything. She is doing PR instead, ie she is stepping in only when there are positive things to say, otherwise stays mute.

 

It's not the role of a community manager to be everybody's nanny and react to every single 'thought' that has been thrown into a thread. 

7 minutes ago, BloodCat said:

And what way would that be, exactly? My point, in that matter, being the devs silence considering the bugs, at least. Even with D4 there was some communication -- DiRT shows, roadbooks, forum posts... until that came to pure lies and eventual silence. But for DR2 almost all meaningful communication went down heavily right after the release. Isn't it possible that only the skeleton crew is left to finish the DLCs (which must be heavily underway) and all the others have been switched to, say, F1 2019?..

You don't know how game studios are organized. I highly doubt that the same people who are working on DR 2.0 are also working on F1 games, just as the guys and girls working on physics and handling are not those who model cars and tracks to put DLCs together. As long as you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, it's all uninformed, useless rants. 

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3 minutes ago, richie said:

You don't know how game studios are organized. I highly doubt that the same people who are working on DR 2.0 are also working on F1 games, just as the guys and girls working on physics and handling are not those who model cars and tracks to put DLCs together. As long as you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, it's all uninformed, useless rants. 

While I agree to this, I still feel a little communication back the other way while not required, would go a long way to quell the negativity. Which is to say, a little reassurance goes along way! I get the fact that sometimes silence is necessary, becuase every time Christina pokes her out people go bananas with more questions. To an earlier point, a Blog post that addresses some of the concerns and outlines work in process to address the issues would be appreciated, and put folks minds at ease.

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44 minutes ago, richie said:

I highly doubt that the same people who are working on DR 2.0 are also working on F1 games, just as the guys and girls working on physics and handling are not those who model cars and tracks to put DLCs together.

You're quick to jump to accusations, eh? Well I highly doubt that Codemasters are big enough to have completely separate dev teams for various projects; for example, 3D-modellers, artists, etc. can very well be shared among different projects, physics coders can share the load too.

2 hours ago, richie said:

You can get your point across in a mannered way.

For the second time: care to share such a way? Of course, it should not only be 'mannered', but effective.

50 minutes ago, richie said:

It's not the role of a community manager to be everybody's nanny and react to every single 'thought' that has been thrown into a thread.

The role of community manager is to sway community mood in the way directed by that 'manager' superiors. And that requires at least, you know, communication with the community, isn't it? And communication is something a bit bigger then reposting patchnotes.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, richie said:

 

You don't know how game studios are organized. I highly doubt that the same people who are working on DR 2.0 are also working on F1 games, just as the guys and girls working on physics and handling are not those who model cars and tracks to put DLCs together. As long as you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, it's all uninformed, useless rants. 

Clearly not. With the F1 team being vastly more talented. What i want to know though is what happened to the DR team? Did it drastically change from then to now/DR2.0? If not and its the same team how did they get so many things wrong this time round.

Also what is going on with the management at Codies? They seem to be making so many bad decisons in Dirt 4, On Rush and now DR 2.0. Worrying trend for a great British institute. 

Edited by FLAW3D
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Posted (edited)

Same situation is also at DiRT twitter, no info about upcoming fixes and at every fancy video or screenshot is lots of comments/questions about FFB and other issues, but totally silence. 
That is not professional way to make happy customers.
They ask buglist from players but do not tell anything what they are going to fix or not. 

Take it or leave it sounds method what they are use.
I supposed that game is at least same state than DR1 but there is lots of things which are better with first one.

I agree that game have great potential to be one of the greatest racing games but not at this state, hope they do everything to fix those things which going to make it.
When you find game only from bargain box I think it´s little too late to fix things.

Edited by SimFunny
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