Jump to content

Do you want the FFB fixed?

Do you want the FFB fixed?  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want the FFB fixed?

    • Yes, I want the FFB to be fixed
    • No, I like the FFB as it is


Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, thatDutchguy83 said:

No, you dont have it with your settings. it is actually there, more subtle then DR1 but its there, and as you can see in the poll there's more people backing this..

Maybe on the T300 there is. On the Xbox equivalent - TX wheel, there is nothing. Cattle grids, and hard landings after big jumps - and that is it. Surface detail is absent...completely. 

 

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RallyLover19 said:

Hired guys who enjoy this game 3-2-1 ... Let hear your opinions how good is a racing game without FFB 😄

When you have no arguments at all and differentiation is a distant planet far from our galaxy, then it appears that 'fanboy', 'hired people' or 'Codies defense squad' is the ultimate answer. 

Edited by richie
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Numbers are facts.. as i agree there's more people that "want it fixed".., still over a third thinks its allright like it is . (more than i would think, seeing all the negative commentary). And as unsatisfied people usually tend to ventilate their frustration (a lot) more than satisfied people will tell how satisfied they are, i really dont think theres that much wrong on the ffb side. 

  • Agree 4
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

How can anyone like it how it is the now? Its non existent unless you go over a cattle grid :classic_laugh:

What are your wheel/FFB settings on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, afahoy said:

What are your wheel/FFB settings on?

Would need to check later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well here is my take, having driven and rallied from 1984 to 2004 in a massive range of different cars right up to wrc Subarus including a large number of cars that are actually in the game. The ffb is a mile off anything resembling real life. I have tested this game on a wide range of wheels, including a TS-PC a fana 2.5, a OSW and a Accuforce. The Accuforce however because of its ability to use Sim Commander to generate its own FFB really brings the game to life and is in my opinion the only time the true potential of the game comes close to being Sim like. 

If the intention of codies was to make a sim them the ffb needs fixing, if it wasn't then obviously why fix what they consider is not broke. Also from a business point of view i expect they consider very few sales will now come from a fixed ffb., as you only get 1 chance to make a first impression and that ship has already sailed.  

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
  • Sad 1
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, doyaneedthis said:

Well here is my take, having driven and rallied from 1984 to 2004 in a massive range of different cars right up to wrc Subarus including a large number of cars that are actually in the game. The ffb is a mile off anything resembling real life. I have tested this game on a wide range of wheels, including a TS-PC a fana 2.5, a OSW and a Accuforce. The Accuforce however because of its ability to use Sim Commander to generate its own FFB really brings the game to life and is in my opinion the only time the true potential of the game comes close to being Sim like. 

If the intention of codies was to make a sim them the ffb needs fixing, if it wasn't then obviously why fix what they consider is not broke. Also from a business point of view i expect they consider very few sales will now come from a fixed ffb., as you only get 1 chance to make a first impression and that ship has already sailed.  

You mean Rally cars dont handle like little City cars with zero feeling in the wheel? Well i never who would of thought it. As i said before i had much more feeling through the wheel of my last couple of cars Fiesta ST, Focus ST and currently Clubman Cooper S than i feel through my wheel with DR 2.0 and they cars all electric powered steering set up for ease of driving rather than true feel compared to hydraulic steering found in most Rally Cars...The Codies Defence Force are going to be on you after all they tell us the FFB is great and true to real life and were all at fault because were not rally drivers (i think they think that there Honda Accords an Hyundai i10's actually feel like Rally/Race Cars lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Tbh, I've just grown accustomed to it, it's just odd feeling very little when you're on the really rough and bumpy stuff at times. 

The fact that Tyre Slip and Engine FFB options are deliberately locked out from tuning does say something about this issue though.

Edited by KingOfTheCakes
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FLAW3D said:

You mean Rally cars dont handle like little City cars with zero feeling in the wheel? Well i never who would of thought it. As i said before i had much more feeling through the wheel of my last couple of cars Fiesta ST, Focus ST and currently Clubman Cooper S than i feel through my wheel with DR 2.0 and they cars all electric powered steering set up for ease of driving rather than true feel compared to hydraulic steering found in most Rally Cars...The Codies Defence Force are going to be on you after all they tell us the FFB is great and true to real life and were all at fault because were not rally drivers (i think they think that there Honda Accords an Hyundai i10's actually feel like Rally/Race Cars lol)

Here is my take on it, the last generation of rally cars on 80mm Reiger Suspension and light power steering do absorb a lot of the road feel, Jon Armstrong as there main test driver has based his input on his last experiences in a R5. Which if this is the case then maybe there is a small case for ffb being closer to real life, however i have never driven a rally car where in a straight line on gravel you dont get a lot of rumble through the wheel over the slightly uneven surface. I would also add there is a obvious contradiction, in Argentina you have massive head shake from the camera and not from the wheel, so on one side you accept it exists and the other you dont. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 3
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, doyaneedthis said:

Well here is my take, having driven and rallied from 1984 to 2004 in a massive range of different cars right up to wrc Subarus including a large number of cars that are actually in the game. The ffb is a mile off anything resembling real life. I have tested this game on a wide range of wheels, including a TS-PC a fana 2.5, a OSW and a Accuforce. The Accuforce however because of its ability to use Sim Commander to generate its own FFB really brings the game to life and is in my opinion the only time the true potential of the game comes close to being Sim like. 

If the intention of codies was to make a sim them the ffb needs fixing, if it wasn't then obviously why fix what they consider is not broke. Also from a business point of view i expect they consider very few sales will now come from a fixed ffb., as you only get 1 chance to make a first impression and that ship has already sailed.  

I've seen plenty of other rally drivers with the complete opposite opinion. Theres no one size fits all. As has been said a million times. Some like it, some don't. Theres no right or wrong, just everyone's individual opinions, which, shock horror, can sometimes be different.

Crazy right? 

  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, magpieracer48 said:

I've seen plenty of other rally drivers with the complete opposite opinion. Theres no one size fits all. As has been said a million times. Some like it, some don't. Theres no right or wrong, just everyone's individual opinions, which, shock horror, can sometimes be different.

Crazy right? 

How did you manage to get the FFB tailored made for yourself :classic_biggrin: You hit the jackpot with 2.0 🏆

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can get better FFB (more informative) with same money, why wouldn´t take it?
You can tweak sliders down to get it back to state what it´s now.
Weird poll :classic_unsure:

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, magpieracer48 said:

I've seen plenty of other rally drivers with the complete opposite opinion. Theres no one size fits all. As has been said a million times. Some like it, some don't. Theres no right or wrong, just everyone's individual opinions, which, shock horror, can sometimes be different.

Crazy right? 

I appreciate that its subjective,  but i would love to know of any rally driver that would back the concept that driving straight down a gravel road there is no feedback to the steering wheel, this quite simply is not subjective its quite simply not true, i know hundreds of guys over the years who competed 20 or so drive sims having talked to them, and as i also have a small business that makes custom rigs for people that actually compete, i have not come across one who thinks the ffb is correct.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

How did you manage to get the FFB tailored made for yourself :classic_biggrin: You hit the jackpot with 2.0 🏆

Hey I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm saying I don't think it's broken. Big difference. 

  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, KingOfTheCakes said:

The fact that Tyre Slip and Engine FFB options are deliberately locked out from tuning does say something about this issue though.

Yes, it says that those forces are intended for gamepads with rumble motors, not wheels.

Edit:

dr2-ffb-g29.jpg

dr2-ffb-xbone.jpg

Edited by afahoy
Evidence for claim.
  • Thanks 2
  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/3/2019 at 1:12 PM, thatDutchguy83 said:

No, you dont have it with your settings. it is actually there, more subtle then DR1 but its there, and as you can see in the poll there's more people backing this..

I've been driving racing sims for over 25 years. I know how to set up a wheel/game config thanks.

I do not appreciate being talked down to by you sonny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thank goodness we have a new ffb thread. Maybe this could've been "precisely what improvements would you like to see for the ffb" ....something constructive.

 

We are just going round in circles and nothing is being set out as a community 100% fix idea.

 

This is a poll with no other objective but to divide the community and get the same pointless, near endless pages of debate. We all (most of us) agree some changes should be made to ffb. What I haven't seen many people agree on is what that should look like. This kind of self pleasuring poll is almost entirely redundant given the progress made already, or the lack thereof. 

Please start listing how you want the ffb to feel in your opinions and let's see if we can get a match across the board. FFS.

 

 

Edited by Rallystu2
  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/4/2019 at 2:57 AM, magpieracer48 said:

I've seen plenty of other rally drivers with the complete opposite opinion. Theres no one size fits all. As has been said a million times. Some like it, some don't. Theres no right or wrong, just everyone's individual opinions, which, shock horror, can sometimes be different.

Crazy right? 

I'd like to see those reports from plenty of other rally drivers. Can you link to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/2/2019 at 11:20 PM, magpieracer48 said:

And no I'm not confusing heaviness for FFB. I'm well aware of what everything is and means having used FFB wheels since 2004 on just about every console and every sim going. And the ones that feel closest to real life are the ones that have less pronounced fake effects. Fake effects which are obviously what people here seem to want, instead of a realistic powered, responsive feel, which is what I believe we currently have. It's a matter of opinion of course but I'm totally happy with how it feels.

The notion of "fake effects" is misleading. Some day in the future, when computers are powerful enough to actually model every tiny stone on the road in 3D and the car physics engine reacts to all of these details, what you call "fake effects" will no longer be needed. But as long as the gravel we are driving on is just a bump-mapped texture on a mostly smooth 3D surface, precalculated vibration effects are essential to convey realistic road texture feedback (well, at least as realistic as it's possible with only a vibrating wheel). This effect is completely missing right now for many users, making it feel like driving a 100,000 $ Mercedes on polished marble, with no way to even tell whether your tires are still touching the ground. In a real car, you can even feel tiny irregularities in a smooth tarmac surface. So much for "closest to real life". :classic_wink:

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Laserjones said:

The notion of "fake effects" is misleading. Some day in the future, when computers are powerful enough to actually model every tiny stone on the road in 3D and the car physics engine reacts to all of these details, what you call "fake effects" will no longer be needed. But as long as the gravel we are driving on is just a bump-mapped texture on a mostly smooth 3D surface, precalculated vibration effects are essential to convey realistic road texture feedback (well, at least as realistic as it's possible with only a vibrating wheel). This effect is completely missing right now for many users, making it feel like driving a 100,000 $ Mercedes on polished marble, with no way to even tell whether your tires are still touching the ground. In a real car, you can even feel tiny irregularities in a smooth tarmac surface. So much for "closest to real life". :classic_wink:

I know what you mean, however these feelings in a real car simply aren't present through a wheel. I drive fairly regularly on gravel and tarmac and all of those details come through the body, not the wheel. I even went over a cattle grid yesterday and not even that came through the wheel, I felt it through the seat though.

So in terms of steering realism, I would argue that the current force feedback (SAT) is accurate to real life.

However, since we are not in a real car, we need the information that usually comes through the seat, to come through the wheel. 

So while I agree we need more ffb, I would say this is certainly closer to real life.

 

(I do not own a £100,000 mercedes)

  • Disagree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rallystu2 said:

I know what you mean, however these feelings in a real car simply aren't present through a wheel. I drive fairly regularly on gravel and tarmac and all of those details come through the body, not the wheel. I even went over a cattle grid yesterday and not even that came through the wheel, I felt it through the seat though.

Interesting – I paid attention to this when driving recently, because that argument had been presented before in another thread, and I found that, at least on my car, I can feel a lot of road texture vibration directly through the wheel, even on tarmac (which is only logical, because the steering column has a hard connection to the car body). Of course, a big portion also comes through the seat, but I would not call it realism to ignore that portion, instead the wheel needs to convey at least a bit of it to approximate the overall impression of a real-world driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Laserjones said:

Interesting – I paid attention to this when driving recently, because that argument had been presented before in another thread, and I found that, at least on my car, I can feel a lot of road texture vibration directly through the wheel, even on tarmac (which is only logical, because the steering column has a hard connection to the car body). Of course, a big portion also comes through the seat, but I would not call it realism to ignore that portion, instead the wheel needs to convey at least a bit of it to approximate the overall impression of a real-world driver.

You're absolutely right. To be fair my power steering is electro assisted so that will undoubtedly remove some feeling, I also haven't driven a hydraulic or direct steered (no power steering) car in a while. I can only express my views as experimented in my current car. 

But without a doubt the feelings that are felt through the seat such as suspension should be simulated to an extent through the wheel.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some information I gathered via a poll in the DiRT Rally group on Facebook. I expressly addressed only people who are using an FFB wheel and already made considerable efforts to find good FFB settings.

Note that many participants obviously did not understand that they could (and should) select multiple answers, which is why the total numbers of people responding to a question differ greatly. Facebook polls are rather limited, unfortunately.

23 users said that FFB in DR2 is usable, but needs improvement.
7 users said that FFB is severely broken and they cannot really play that way.
2 users said that FFB works just fine for them.

35 users confirmed that they cannot feel continuous road texture vibration when driving straight ahead on gravel.
No users confirmed that they can feel continuous road texture vibration.

61 users think that continuous road texture vibration is important and feedback from major bumps only is not enough.
39 users think that some continuous road texture vibration should be there on tarmac, too.
1 user said he doesn't care about continuous road texture vibration.

Additional results:

38 users would like to have on-screen explanations of the FFB parameters.
23 users stated that some of their FFB parameters are grayed out.
4 users see additional FFB problems not mentioned in the poll.

So, while we must assume that the portion of people who see no FFB problems is probably higher than indicated here (because dissatisfied people are more likely to respond to such a poll), we have a quite clear result here that confirms that road texture vibration is in fact considered important and is missing in the game.

  • Thanks 2
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

That's useful data, can I pinch it for feedback?

And can you link the poll here?

Edited by Rallystu2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×