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Request for a new penalty system

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Posted (edited)

Chris,

The current penalty system is not working. I played six duels in a row that were sprint races. Each time I was against a live opponent. And each time I was deliberately rammed into and taken out of the race. I somehow end up with an engine penalty as a result. And my safety rating also goes down as well. Because there is no real way that you can solve this issue. All live opponents should be ghosted. That would stop people from taking other players out deliberately. It would also force them to play the game properly. This way the only way that you can win a match is to actually race and not play NASCAR style bumper cars. I know I'm not the only one that would feel this way. I personally hate playing games online against live players because of this very reason. I'd rather race against other people's posted lap times or play by myself against the computer. 

if your team is not willing to do that then there needs to be some sort of system that we can report these players. if they get enough complaints either they're suspended or banned for a certain period of time, as well as having points docked. these little engines slow down and the safety rating system that does little does nothing except match you with bad players. its not a strong enough incentive to get people to stop doing this.

Edited by xdakota80x
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Amen brother!

My SR just dropped a full point after a perfect race, guessing a higher SR dropped off the rolling average or whatever they think is being calculated.

The crash assignment is no better than 50/50 correct assigning blame. I like the ghosting idea or if nothing else, slow down both cars.

I read in theory there is a "Party Mode" where if you fall X seconds behind ( after impact?, after knocked off track?, ???) you get a speed boost until you catch up. I used to think the super fast cars was the game or people cheating but now find out it could be an undocument game mode.

The Eastern Europeans and Russian hackers will figure this stuff out so why keep it secret 😜

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Hello,

The penalty system is certainly a topic we regularly discuss internally, as we know it can play a key role in how players experience the game. We've already regularly made changes to this system, based on player feedback, and are getting closer and closer to an optimum setup. 

A catch-all solution for what the penalty system should be and how it should be implemented is never possible, just like there are 'racing incidents' and tricky decisions for stewards in real-life racing. Creating a perfect solution in-game isn't realistic - but that doesn't mean we're not keen to ensure the system we have is optimised!

'Ghosting' all cars in all modes is something that's been raised before, but then you're eliminating many aspects that make this a true F1 game. It's much more of a time trial-styled experience once you ghost all cars, not an action-packed racer. We'd much rather challenge ourselves to create systems and penalties that allow realistic racing to take place, and we'll keep trying to refine that experience for you 🙂 

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Posted (edited)

I agree about the penalty system. Also it isn't just other drivers being idiots, avoiding a much slower AI or maybe not slightly cutting the corner on a phone sized screen with no proper wheel/gamepad is damn hard. I mean I know I am not the cleanest out there but at the same time I don't deliberately crash, yet my safety rating is right down in the rammers section.

Edited by SingaporeTrackLizard
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, xdakota80x said:

Chris,

The current penalty system is not working. I played six duels in a row that were sprint races. Each time I was against a live opponent. And each time I was deliberately rammed into and taken out of the race. I somehow end up with an engine penalty as a result. And my safety rating also goes down as well. Because there is no real way that you can solve this issue. All live opponents should be ghosted. That would stop people from taking other players out deliberately. It would also force them to play the game properly. This way the only way that you can win a match is to actually race and not play NASCAR style bumper cars. I know I'm not the only one that would feel this way. I personally hate playing games online against live players because of this very reason. I'd rather race against other people's posted lap times or play by myself against the computer. 

if your team is not willing to do that then there needs to be some sort of system that we can report these players. if they get enough complaints either they're suspended or banned for a certain period of time, as well as having points docked. these little engines slow down and the safety rating system that does little does nothing except match you with bad players. its not a strong enough incentive to get people to stop doing this.

They wont be passed and they want to pass me with barbaric driving style...

They try to ram my car, sometimes avoided them and DNF... LOL

They deserve that

Edited by Stepen

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I'm appreciate the challenges and SR seems to be moving in the right direction.  Races seem better with SR in the yellow that the red. But the value seems to often change move randomly.   It would be nice to share at least at the high level how to get and keep a good SR.  Or maybe show the SR real time during a race? 

From my humble "user experience", the most frustrating thing right now is an opponent hits you, but you slow down and they don't.  I don't think the offender detection is any better then 50/50.  SoI'd would prefer slowing both cars rather than risking picking the wrong one so we can keep racing.

I hate the "Party Mode" thing if that was intended as a mitigation.  Drivers have already figured out how to exploit that "feature..."

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I'm not saying that all of the cars should be ghosted. Maybe leave the AI as active. And I also get that there sometimes incidents. But I've never watched a F1 race where one driver pulls a pit maneuver on another.

And I do agree that the quality of racing is better when you're safety rating is in the yellow or green. However when other people keep ramming into you and you drop down in the red, it's damn near impossible to get out of that level when all people do is try to take you out.

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Posted (edited)

Crazy race night on this end.

Happily racing and proud of my yellow 2.7 SR until I get rammed from the rear by a real opponent in Abu Dhabu with the penalty going to me and pushing the car into a corner cut.  Never give up - keep goong.  Get rear ended again by a bot and knocked off track, but get party mode, car is now hyper fast, but uncontrollable into sector 3,  bouncing off walls, two more corner cuts... SR drops to 1.1.

Next few races, get rear ended by bots 3 races in a row, SR goes down, down, down, now  0.9  My bottom is really sore by now with all those nosecone's stuck in it.

New race, real opponent, impact from rear entering corner pushing off track - but Hallelujah, he gets the penalty. I speed away delirious with my massive 2+ second lead.  Finally gonna win one.  A few seconds later, oh no!  He must have gotten party mode - rockets up, hits me again, penalty for me and another corner cut. No win,  SR = 0.6.  Pappy is gonna be unhappy.

Next a sprint race, rear ended at start by real opponent with a lot of lag, I go immediately into Party Mode, pass the entire field before the first turn, yippie, clear track, finish first with ease.  SR goes up to 3.7...  Can't wait to show my pappy.

Very entertaining 😂

 

 

Edited by StKnowhere

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Jumped back in, had one clean qualification race, SR drops from 3.7 to 1.2.  😂

 

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11 hours ago, StKnowhere said:

I'm appreciate the challenges and SR seems to be moving in the right direction.  Races seem better with SR in the yellow that the red. But the value seems to often change move randomly.   It would be nice to share at least at the high level how to get and keep a good SR.  Or maybe show the SR real time during a race? 

Hey again - the Safety Rating system isn't something we go into massive detail about because A) It's regularly being tweaked to be optimised, so information quickly becomes outdated; and B) Giving too much information away allows the possibility for unfair racers to exploit it, and then harm the fairer players more often. 

The most that can be said on it is that the system uses activity and performance from multiple previous races to create your Safety Rating number. That means that just because you had a super clean race last time out, doesn't mean your SR is likely to improve. It's a combination of many different race performances 🙂

It's worth keeping in mind that this kind of system is very rarely seen in games created by our peers. It's an ambitious and tricky system for this platform, but the team is constantly making steps forward to not just implement it, but also optimise it. 🙂

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for responding, I didn't ask for massive detail and assumed the propriatary nature of the system for the reasons you explain.

Very complex and interesting challenge indeed.

But I think somebody is drinking their own bath water if they believe the SR It's working correctly from the users POV more than 50% of the time and is producing a positive user experience  😁

Based on some comparative videos I've seen where contact did not show for both players, I'll bet the confusion, randomness and perceived incorrect blame assignment is often related to connection lag on the virtualization of the opponent.  😁

I'll stop bugging you now on this one 😁

 

Edited by StKnowhere

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Although I agree with most of it, I disagree with the ghost topic. I enjoy the physical aspect of the game very much. Now things that need attention immediately are, if you're rear ended, the hitter should be penalized not the receiver, unless it's an intentional brake check which should be added as well. Contact on corners should only be penalized if either one of the drivers forces the other off the track.  Driving lines should be recorded to determine whether or not the driver is a safe driver and etc. Also, fix customer support, I haven't received a response in 5 days already. Other than that, I freaking love this game, I have to be honest I've spent some decent money in the game because I have no patience Haha. Thanks for the great job, looking forward to seeing the game progress everyday!!

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Different technical bug, but related to getting hit from behind. Anyone else experience the flying car? I got hit from behind by an opponent and my car shoots straight up into the sky and starts bouncing like a basketball. I have to admit....I lost the race, obviously, but that made me laugh. That's the most creative bug that's been placed into this game yet.

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2 hours ago, xdakota80x said:

Different technical bug, but related to getting hit from behind. Anyone else experience the flying car? I got hit from behind by an opponent and my car shoots straight up into the sky and starts bouncing like a basketball. I have to admit....I lost the race, obviously, but that made me laugh. That's the most creative bug that's been placed into this game yet.

A couple of times for me also.

The crash dance cerebration bots sometimes do at the end of a race and fly into the air is hilarious also.

I agree, it is just a game so laugh more when something silly happens 😁

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Posted (edited)

Upload problems 8mb file? ...

Is there a way to delete your post?

 

Edited by StKnowhere

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Posted (edited)

IMO there seems to be a lack of DSQ as well, a lot of situations are very easy to recognize. I came up with a few and ordered them from no-brainer to maybe tricky to determine/enforce

- driving over the start/finish line in the wrong direction: DSQ

- not crossing the start line in the first 10 seconds after the start: DSQ

- driving in the wrong direction for more than 10 seconds: DSQ

- standing still (speed below 100kph?) for more than 10 seconds: DSQ

- crashing into opponents (player and AI) more than 2+what_league_you're_in times in a race: DSQ. I've seen people ram just about everything off the road in order to block the opponent behind. The occasional crash can happen but the higher league you're in, the better you're supposed to be. In a real race you'd probably break your car into DNF before this DSQ threshold.

- colliding with the other player in the first 5 seconds after the start: DSQ for the one that moved furthest left/right towards the other from their starting position on track

Furthermore, there should be a 'protest' button that you can press during or after the race, that may or may not trigger an "investigation by the stewards" (probably not, but the option would be nice 🙂 ). The button only works if there has been any collision by the opponent, so it makes no sense to just press it every race just in case. Hopefully, it can be used to find out which players are *****. Maybe combined with the number of collisions (both player and AI) per race for that player. Since it's difficult to find out (because of lots of factors) who actually caused the collision, they always count for both players if they collide. Statistically, this number should stay on the low side for honest players, unless the game is flooded by crashers. Right now, there is no way to punish bad players besides putting them in their red bracket and I don't feel like it's working (and it's damn hard for honest players to get out of it because of the demographic in there).

Of course I'm not "all players" but I got this game mostly so I could practice driving on the tracks before every race. Really the only reason I play duels is to unlock all the tracks, but I managed to reach league 2 now so I've got them all. Online is nice if you're playing against real players that actually try, but if that part sucks, there is really no reason for me to play anything but single and event anymore.

 

Edited by DataGhost
Of course, starts are behind the start/finish line so you first need to cross it. doh
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I'm no programmer and don't know how hard this would be but surely something could be coded to recognise when people spin you off on a straight? So many times i've been spun out of the lead whilst the dirty racer carries on their merry way. Rage inducing and ruins the fun of multiplayer.

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I do try to but some swipes are so quick and violent that no amount of opposite motion will prevent the spin. In some cases it exacerbates it.

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I completely agree with the problems mentioned above.  It is very frustrating to have both real players and bots putting you into the wall.  Like one of the stories mentioned above, I lost 7 races (4 DNF) in a row because either a player or a bot spun me off the track or put me into the wall in a corner.  I also see bots that are 4 seconds behind me somehow amazingly catch up in one stretch and slam me in the corner.  Its absolutely ridiculous that bots have that capability programmed into them.  The ferrari's particularly do not like me for some reason.

It is also uncool that the bots don't seem to have a penalty for driving through the grass.  I have yet to see one slow down even when considerably off the track.

Ghosting - I love this idea, but only for players.  You and your opponent should only be ghosted to each other.  The remaining cars on the track would still require you to drive and pass as intended.  The crash derby kids will see their trophy points diminish quickly and will have to learn to drive.  It will also help to keep them out of the higher leagues - which seems like a fitting penalty for not learning to drive and pass.

How about the sprint races that start with your opponent a full half second ahead?  Some races are over before they even start.

These issues have definitely contributed to my reduction in play time. 

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On 4/9/2019 at 1:39 AM, DataGhost said:

IMO there seems to be a lack of DSQ as well, a lot of situations are very easy to recognize. I came up with a few and ordered them from no-brainer to maybe tricky to determine/enforce

- driving over the start/finish line in the wrong direction: DSQ

- not crossing the start line in the first 10 seconds after the start: DSQ

- driving in the wrong direction for more than 10 seconds: DSQ

- standing still (speed below 100kph?) for more than 10 seconds: DSQ

- crashing into opponents (player and AI) more than 2+what_league_you're_in times in a race: DSQ. I've seen people ram just about everything off the road in order to block the opponent behind. The occasional crash can happen but the higher league you're in, the better you're supposed to be. In a real race you'd probably break your car into DNF before this DSQ threshold.

- colliding with the other player in the first 5 seconds after the start: DSQ for the one that moved furthest left/right towards the other from their starting position on track

Furthermore, there should be a 'protest' button that you can press during or after the race, that may or may not trigger an "investigation by the stewards" (probably not, but the option would be nice 🙂 ). The button only works if there has been any collision by the opponent, so it makes no sense to just press it every race just in case. Hopefully, it can be used to find out which players are *****. Maybe combined with the number of collisions (both player and AI) per race for that player. Since it's difficult to find out (because of lots of factors) who actually caused the collision, they always count for both players if they collide. Statistically, this number should stay on the low side for honest players, unless the game is flooded by crashers. Right now, there is no way to punish bad players besides putting them in their red bracket and I don't feel like it's working (and it's damn hard for honest players to get out of it because of the demographic in there).

Of course I'm not "all players" but I got this game mostly so I could practice driving on the tracks before every race. Really the only reason I play duels is to unlock all the tracks, but I managed to reach league 2 now so I've got them all. Online is nice if you're playing against real players that actually try, but if that part sucks, there is really no reason for me to play anything but single and event anymore.

 

this is something that isn't hard to understand: those who hit in the rear of other car shold be penalised, not the other way. Who is behind has a clear view of brake distance, the one ahead has only a arrow pointing, and its allowed to defend possition; who cames behind can expect that the car in front will defend. many times I'm about to brake to make a turn and the player takes me out so hard: is really wasn't on purpose?!?!? At least BOTH cars shold have the same speed reduced

maybe a system with like/dislike players for reward a player that play fair.

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