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Game Suggestion - Tweaking Car Setups

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Hi guys, 

My biggest issue when playing the F1 Games is that I don't have the knowledge or time to sit down and work out set ups for each track. I tried it once, it's painful and having to tweak the brake bias ever so slightly, then get the car round an installation lap to see what it did, then come in to tweak it further or change the rear wing angle is just so time consuming and tedious.

Unless you guys know a better way round it, wouldn't it be better to have some specific practice/ set up mode where you could adjust the setup in the pause menu (whilst on a flying lap) and use the replay function to see what the setting change did up eau rouge, rather than having to go back to the pits? Having it more real time would be awesome and would save me so much time.

At the moment I try setups from other people on time trial, but unless they match your driving style then they won't work.

Let me know what you think, or if I've missed something crucial in the game that already spells out how setups work! 

Thanks 🙂

 

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I'd love an option in ANY racing game to be able to jump straight from tuning screen to a specific section of track, or even corner. We all have specific corners that give us problems it would be awesome to be able to stiffen roll bars then TEST OUT CORNER 9 to see if it worked. Obviously game would need to place us on a straight before taking over so corner by corner tricky to implement. What would work though is being able to start at the start of any straight of our choosing. Then we could have several entry points for the lap instead of at the very start every time. 

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Perhaps, but that also defeats the purpose of having time-limited practice sessions doesn't it? I usually use return to garage and drive out or flying lap based on whether my issue is at the start or end of the lap. I think the current system keeps it simple and keeps it realistic. Besides, setups are practically impossible to perfect in just practice anyway. I'm in season 5 of career mode and still make tweaks to the setup each time I come around. There's very few tracks where I feel like I have nailed the setup perfectly, but I am pretty good at getting it within +/- 5% of perfect. I also feel like you need 2 or 3 laps to really know the influence of a setup tweak, so I'm not sure how just running directly to a corner is useful..

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On 4/6/2019 at 6:30 PM, DarkMarkXD said:

Hi guys, 

My biggest issue when playing the F1 Games is that I don't have the knowledge or time to sit down and work out set ups for each track. I tried it once, it's painful and having to tweak the brake bias ever so slightly, then get the car round an installation lap to see what it did, then come in to tweak it further or change the rear wing angle is just so time consuming and tedious.

Unless you guys know a better way round it, wouldn't it be better to have some specific practice/ set up mode where you could adjust the setup in the pause menu (whilst on a flying lap) and use the replay function to see what the setting change did up eau rouge, rather than having to go back to the pits? Having it more real time would be awesome and would save me so much time.

At the moment I try setups from other people on time trial, but unless they match your driving style then they won't work.

Let me know what you think, or if I've missed something crucial in the game that already spells out how setups work! 

Thanks 🙂

 

Hi Mark! If you want to, I could help you out with that one a little bit, and show you my favourite ones, fitting to my drivingstyle!
Cheers

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On 4/8/2019 at 6:46 PM, vpilotnick said:

Hi Mark! If you want to, I could help you out with that one a little bit, and show you my favourite ones, fitting to my drivingstyle!
Cheers

Yes that would be awesome if you could, thank you 🙂

I just can't seem to work out what setup tweaks I need to.

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On 4/7/2019 at 9:00 PM, pijin said:

Perhaps, but that also defeats the purpose of having time-limited practice sessions doesn't it? I usually use return to garage and drive out or flying lap based on whether my issue is at the start or end of the lap. I think the current system keeps it simple and keeps it realistic. Besides, setups are practically impossible to perfect in just practice anyway. I'm in season 5 of career mode and still make tweaks to the setup each time I come around. There's very few tracks where I feel like I have nailed the setup perfectly, but I am pretty good at getting it within +/- 5% of perfect. I also feel like you need 2 or 3 laps to really know the influence of a setup tweak, so I'm not sure how just running directly to a corner is useful..

I hear you. Just when I start with the default set up for a track, I have no idea on what I need to change (apart from wings, which are quite self explanatory). I would just like to be able to adjust the ballast, for example, and see what that does on a particular part of the track to help me understand the effects. 

Pitting, adjusting something, being put on a flying/installation lap just seems too long winded to me. I know it's realistic this way, but in real life I'm sure each team has a pretty good understanding of the set up before they get to the circuit and just fine tuning it as they do FP1 etc

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Make basic setups in time trial then carry them over to career and adjust for the R&D  upgrades you’ve done...it’s better for the sake of practice and to actually get a feel for what difference a change has made to do like 3-5 laps minimum before making another adjustment...I’ve found I use basically the same suspension setups on most tracks and mostly just change aero, braking, and ballast mostly...Honestly I’ve heard it argued that apart from those things the suspension settings make little difference from track to track as they should...hopefully one of the many improvements that have been worked on over the last two years while developing F1 2019

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15 hours ago, DarkMarkXD said:

I hear you. Just when I start with the default set up for a track, I have no idea on what I need to change (apart from wings, which are quite self explanatory). I would just like to be able to adjust the ballast, for example, and see what that does on a particular part of the track to help me understand the effects. 

Pitting, adjusting something, being put on a flying/installation lap just seems too long winded to me. I know it's realistic this way, but in real life I'm sure each team has a pretty good understanding of the set up before they get to the circuit and just fine tuning it as they do FP1 etc

That’s fair enough. Though tbh, I just start with a TT setup from Veloce limitless or something and then adjust it from there. From that I’ve gotten a pretty good understanding of what each element does. Ones I’m still not 100% sure on are the alignment settings and diff settings. I know how they work in theory, and I play around with them in other games like Forza. But I’m not sure I really feel the effect here.

I get your point though. Teams spend hundreds of hours in simulators to get a baseline setup prior to reaching the track. I suppose running time trial could be an alternative to that?

You know, I just had a crazy idea while thinking about team sims. What if (assuming we get F2 cars as rumored) you can, instead of showcase events, do test sessions and FP1 sessions for teams? That’ll earn you “driver rep” and earn the team performance points which will make them perform better when you join. Totally unrelated but I just had to write it down. Though tbh, I’m sure hundreds have had this idea already

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 4:00 PM, pijin said:

Perhaps, but that also defeats the purpose of having time-limited practice sessions doesn't it? I usually use return to garage and drive out or flying lap based on whether my issue is at the start or end of the lap. I think the current system keeps it simple and keeps it realistic. Besides, setups are practically impossible to perfect in just practice anyway. I'm in season 5 of career mode and still make tweaks to the setup each time I come around. There's very few tracks where I feel like I have nailed the setup perfectly, but I am pretty good at getting it within +/- 5% of perfect. I also feel like you need 2 or 3 laps to really know the influence of a setup tweak, so I'm not sure how just running directly to a corner is useful..

OH yes good points but I'm talking about time trial or LEARN THE TRACK mode not in career, that would be unfair. Career mode is the worst place to be learning tracks and doing some fine tuning because each time you go out to the track your tires are degraded and act differently. Unless you just restart session each time which defeats the whole point anyway. For beginners and tweakers I think fine tuning on at least a certain sector during tt or a training mode would really help as the game constantly tells you which SECTORS you are fast and slow in. So picking your slow sector and doing a few repeats would definitely help either the tune or improving driving skills. 

I agree the best way for me to tweak a setup is to run a LOT of full laps in a race situation. Turning all assists off and running full length practice and race sessions is really making a difference as what seems useful in a quick qualification run can end up destroying tires during a race. Plus one setup can be hard to drive but get you a great single lap time but be exhausting half way through a 60 lap race! When I'm stuck in a 3 way duel with hammy 3 seconds ahead and bottas 3 behind I'm happier using a smooth, tire friendly tune that I'm less likely to make mistakes with. 

So yeh keep career mode realistic but no reason not to include a tutorial mode for each track exactly like GT sport does for their tracks. Although you can't change setups during their mode, it gives you a car and setup to help you learn the track split into multiple segments . If codeys could do the same but add tweaking it would be them with the best training mode IMO. 

Edited by sloppysmusic

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I think if the easiest solution would be for more in depth information on what all the setup segments do to affect the car. This will allow beginners a better understanding of what they're doing when changing wing, ballast, etc.

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On the subject of setups i'd love for Codies to limit the use of extreme setups on multiplayer. I tend to stick to "fixed setup" lobbies in order to have a level playing field. At least i know i lost due to my lack of skill rather than not having a trick setup.

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That would be pretty cool, hopefully not such an unfair advantage compared to matey who knows what he's doing with setups 😛

I think my biggest problem as well is that I don't exactly know what my driving style is. Apparently you adjust your set up to your driving style? 

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and on top of all that is the controller setup. I have spent much time and frustration mucking around with my Fanatec CSW setup. it also doesnt help if the game crashes and I get back into it on reboot, changing nothing, and the force feedback is totally different.

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To dial in a set up only change one thing at a time.  Make big changes from default to completely to the left for example drive a few laps and understand what changed what you liked and what you didn’t like.  Then change that aspect of setup completely to the right and again drive a few laps and see what has changed.  Make notes of how you felt.  Once you have done that you should have an understanding of which way to change that left or right.  Also you should then be able to realise exactly what type of corners each part of the setup effects.  When you do understand that then 80% of setup changes can be made without even leaving the garage.

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A system like pc2 haves will help drivers like you

 There is a mechanic speaking to you, asking how the car feels and from your answers game advices you some tweaks.

Lets hope Codies will make something like that 😛

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Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2019 at 9:39 AM, Auryel27 said:

A system like pc2 haves will help drivers like you

 There is a mechanic speaking to you, asking how the car feels and from your answers game advices you some tweaks.

Lets hope Codies will make something like that 😛

The only issue I have with this is the time it takes and I can't see them prioritising this sort of system. I just feel a quick explanation in text of what does what is a more simplified, easier version. Of course it'll be very good if they have the time to implement something like this, as it can simply be an extra page on the engineer communication mfd thing, which can allow you to tell Jeff whilst you're out on track, and Jeff can give a summary of suggested changes when you next pit. In addition to this, it would be nice to have the option to speak to Jeff whilst in the garage, to talk about setup changes there.

Edited by DaPain

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On 4/13/2019 at 10:39 AM, Auryel27 said:

A system like pc2 haves will help drivers like you

 There is a mechanic speaking to you, asking how the car feels and from your answers game advices you some tweaks.

Lets hope Codies will make something like that 😛

This would be great. For me it would be enough if we could get way more telemetry data when we are in the garage. Sometimes it ist hard to feel some small changes. If we could get the data to see the last laps and to compare it with the laps before would be great. To feel the car is one part and to see the data like lap times, cornering speed, tyre heat and slip... is the second part and would be a great advantage.

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1 hour ago, Akkan74 said:

This would be great. For me it would be enough if we could get way more telemetry data when we are in the garage. Sometimes it ist hard to feel some small changes. If we could get the data to see the last laps and to compare it with the laps before would be great. To feel the car is one part and to see the data like lap times, cornering speed, tyre heat and slip... is the second part and would be a great advantage.

I’ve been saying this since 2017 when they started the UDP telemetry.  You should be able to compare your telemetry to your teammates and also you should be able to look at and/or use your teammates setup(if the ai actually use different setups which I’m not entirely convinced that they do in this game).

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Posted (edited)

Here's how I usually set up my cars when I drive in 2018:

  • Wings are usually spread apart. This is so I can run a higher ballast and get more turn in while stabilizing the rear and keeping the overall wing angle down. (ex: I ran 3 front 8 rear at Australia in my league race yesterday)
    • The lower this number overall, the more straight line speed you'll have. The higher the number, the more cornering ability you'll have. This has a huge trade-off, so use it accordingly.
  • For the differential:
    • The on diff will affect how much traction you have in certain corners. Higher speed corners on tracks like Silverstone, Suzuka, usually need a higher number since it'll give you more outright traction and turn-in mid-corner, whereas places like Baku, Monza, Singapore, I usually leave it down at 50% so I can get better corner exit traction. It's all dependant on the track you're at.
      • If at any point it rains in the session, turn it down to 50% as soon as you start seeing water droplets. You will basically bin it in the wall if the on diff is open at all.
    • The off diff controls how quickly/slowly the wheels slow down under braking. It took me a while to figure this out, but I noticed the higher the number was, regardless of what my brake bias was, the more uncontrollable the rear became when I slammed on them for a corner (ex: turn 3, penultimate corner Australia). It's usually a good idea to keep this between 80-90% at most tracks in the dry.
      • If you know it's going to rain the majority of the race, turn this down 10% from whatever you would run in the dry. It helps alleviate lockups.
  • For the suspension geometry:
    • All tracks, except Singapore I believe, usually work best with the first two all the way to the right and the last two all the way to the right. This maximizes top speed and stability. I tried messing around with this and got loads more turn in, but loads more tyre wear and oversteer in the process. That's never a good combination.
      • Use this in both the dry and wet.
  • For the suspension:
    • The stiffness dictates how much the car suspension travels under braking, acceleration, cornering, and when riding the curbs (the most important of the 4 in the 2018 game). While this can help cornering ability slightly, the higher the number, even by just one increment, can have detrimental effects on how your car handles curbs, which are useful to ride on when trying to minimize laptime. 9 times out of 10 stiff suspension on curbs = stuffing it in the wall and retiring. Don't run higher than 4 on most tracks, 5 or 6 on the rest.
      • Always remember to keep your rear suspension 1-2 clicks lower than the front, otherwise you'll have oversteer problems. If you like a loose car, or the track is unbearable to drive with it lower, match them, but never go higher.
    • Anti-Roll Bars (I'll refer to them as ARBs) play a very large role in how the car handles corners. I've recently started using higher numbers so I can keep the downforce down even further.
      • Sometimes you'll need to reduce these in order to control the car effectively in the wet. I'd go down one click on the front, and depending on the conditions, one or two in the rear.
      • NEVER let the rear ARB exceed the front. You will have a bad time if you aren't used to lots of oversteer, and a bad time in general with tyre wear. I only let them match at Brazil, where cornering ability is crucial in the second sector and first half of the third sector.
      • Play around with these. Keep in mind that the higher this goes, though, the lower your rear balllast will be (usually not more than one to two clicks), and in some extreme cases, the lower your front wing.
    • Ride height plays a large role in the amount of under/oversteer you get in corner entry, as I've come to understand.
      • Generally you want to run a positive rake angle, meaning the rear ride height is higher than the front. On most tracks my front ride height is at three, some I run two, and there was one instance where I ran one. Your rear ride height will usually be two clicks above whatever your front is. A few tracks require that gap to be three.
      • In the wet, set your rear ride height to 11, and your front ride height to 11 - whatever the gap was originally, so for example if you were running 3-6 ride height, it would go to 8-11. If it was 2-4, it would go to 9-11. You want to do this to avoid aquaplaning, which will cause serious over AND understeer and lockup issues. The higher the ride height, the less likely you are to aquaplane when it's raining. But keep the overall rake angle the same.
  • For the brakes:
    • This is entirely dependent on your driving style.
      • If you like braking late, you'll want to use high braking pressures so you can effectively stop the car in time. Be warned though: you are prone to lockups this way.
      • If you don't like that, you'll want to use a lower braking pressure. This will alleviate lockups, but this will also mean you'll have to brake a few meters earlier in most corners.
      • Generally the pressure you want to be running in the dry is +/-85%, depending on what your driving style is like. I personally have never let mine below 85, and I usually run 90% on most tracks.
        • This is where your brake bias and off diff come into play. You'll usually want your off diff below 0-8% of whatever brake pressure you're running. Either match your pressure, or subtract a number within that range. Play around with it and see what suits you.
        • Your brake bias can run as high as 56% but after that you'll basically be locking up everywhere. Generally most tracks use about 54%, some work best with 52%. I like to in/decrease mine in steps of 2, but if I find that they're not working I'll start changing in steps of 1 instead.
        • In the wet, I wouldn't run a bias higher than 54%. It's hard not to lock up in the wet and the bias plays probably one of, if not the largest roles in whether or not you'll be locking up a lot. Do keep in mind that brake bias plays an equally large role in tyre wear offset, so the further to one direction it is, generally the higher the wear is in that direction, and this is magnified in the wet by up to three times in the rear if your car isn't set up properly.
        • One last thing - something a racemate of mine recently discovered (don't remember if it was him personally or found this out through someone else) is that the ERS recovery occurs slightly faster the further to the rear it is. I personally have noticed a minute difference, but this could just be due to the fact that I was using the brakes slightly more to control the car's rear. Not sure if the game is actually programmed to do that or not, but it's something to keep in mind if you're running out of energy constanly.
  • For the tyres:
    • In the dry and wet, the pressures are drastically different.
      • On tracks where cornering is extremely important, minimize pressures. Some cases, all the way down to the very bottom. It makes the tyres sit flatter, keeps them cooler, and as a result you'll have more grip in abundance and for longer into a stint.
      • On tracks with lots of straights, set them higher, but don't max them out. You'll get some slight understeer but this can usually be resolved with higher ARBs. It'll cause you to have your tyres run hotter thus retaining heat (which on power tracks is a good thing since you're turning less and thus the temps will be lower), and your straight line speed will improve.
      • Run your rear tyre pressure 1-2 clicks lower than the front to reduce oversteer. Remember that F1 cars are RWD, so a lot more load is going to the rears. The more grip you can give them the better, but set them too low and you'll begin having understeer. Don't exceed more than three clicks lower.
      • In the wet, set your front tyre pressure all the way to the right and your rear all the way to the left. This solves several oversteer issues, and DRASTICALLY reduces rear tyre wear, which is uncontrollable on Inters/Full wets. You will see the difference and be stunned (I definitely was, LOL) when you realize how simple yet effective a solution this is.
  • For the ballast:
    • On most tracks, this should not be lower than 7 and not higher than 9. Anything lower than 7 and you're going to be driving a boat.
    • On some tracks which need lots of turn in in medium-high speed corners, don't let this exceed 9 or 10. It'll give you lots of turn in for when you really need it (I use 9 or 10 at China, for example), but it'll also give you higher rear wear and affect the amount of oversteer you have considerably. Generally you want to try to determine this at the very start of your practice, so once you have a number you like for a track, stick with it, Changing this will destroy your setup entirely and you'll have to retune a lot of things.

This is usually my thought process when it comes to setting up the car. In F1 2018, there is a very large variety of things that do and don't work setup-wise that weren't possible in previous games. I'm still fine-tuning my setup and driving style myself, but there is A LOT of time to find on track once you've nailed the setup. If you have any more questions, feel free to continue this thread, open up a new one, or drop me a message. Good luck.

Edited by Sabba7h
Mixed "pressure" with "bias" in the brake bias section.

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On 4/7/2019 at 7:00 PM, sloppysmusic said:

I'd love an option in ANY racing game to be able to jump straight from tuning screen to a specific section of track, or even corner. We all have specific corners that give us problems it would be awesome to be able to stiffen roll bars then TEST OUT CORNER 9 to see if it worked. Obviously game would need to place us on a straight before taking over so corner by corner tricky to implement. What would work though is being able to start at the start of any straight of our choosing. Then we could have several entry points for the lap instead of at the very start every time. 

You can do that in Forza 7. Drive, pause, tune, carry on from where you paused.

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