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DiRT Rally 2.0 Road Book - 08/04/19

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Why the F1 games have a higher visual spec/different options than DiRT Rally.

 

1, Both games originally used the same version of the Ego engine, but that was 10 years ago. Now the 2 engines are now so different that the F1 engine cannot be used for DiRT Rally.

 

2, One is a looped track, inside a closed off arena with multi use graphical assets (A seating stand in UK is the same one used in China), that has been worked on year after year, which allows the devs to refine the graphics, meaning better graphics with each release. The other is a 10km stretch of road that uses single use graphical assets, and the tracks change with each game.

So, one can use a bunch of the same graphics on all tracks, the other can't. Well, it can if you don't mind the same houses, road signs, roads etc whether you're in the Panzerplatte or Monte Carlo. But we do mind, we want the stages to look as close to the real thing as possible. That was one of the things we asked for at the beginning of the "What would you like in a rally sim?" period of DiRT Rally development. Realistic handling, real sounds, real stages, real cars.

3, Your options are also limited by your hardware. Your graphic card has to load all those assets before the race starts. I have 3 graphic cards for my pc, a single GTX1060 and 2 GTX970's. The 1060 has 6g of ram, the 970's have 3.5 each. I can run both 970's together in SLi. You'd think that that would mean that I now have 7g of ram from the 2 970's, meaning better graphics, but it doesn't work like that. Both cards use the same graphical assets at the same time, so I still only have 3.5g of ram. And that affects my graphic settings, a lot. What looks amazing on the 1060 doesn't work on the 970's. I have to downgrade the graphic settings quite a bit to get it running smoothly at 60fps, which is why they are now sitting in their boxes and the 1060 is sitting in my pc.

 

That link of @nbates66 also explains why devs like Codies have become somewhat circumspect in the amount of information that they will give out about patches, bug fixes etc.

 

"HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console’s memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.

But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done."

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, bogani said:

This is indeed a TAA problem. Add motion blur to that and you got yourself a mess of a picture. 

TAA makes the image on PC become very blurry as well, and the texture quality in DR2 isn't very good even on highest PC settings either, esp the road texture.

Here lies the problem, Too much effort seems to of went into the environment and not the actual place where we look 95% of the time which of course is the road. This should of had the highest texture settings out of everything but it seems to have the lowest. On PS4 Pro it looks like melted plasticine sure i can see individual blades of grass to the side of me but i cannot see the road infront which is by far the most important surely?

Only a couple of hours to go hopefully Codies can find some middle ground this patch. 

Edited by FLAW3D
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Posted (edited)

in response to Skiddy:

Where is your source for your claim in number 1? both games still use EGO, which is based on Sony's PhyreEngine. so the engine base is the same, and both games quite clearly have that 'EGO engine look' about them. to call them 'completely different engines' is a misnomer at best and outright false at worse.

regarding your comment on looped tracks: you think Dirt doesn't re-use assets? you really think they didn't re-use assets from Australia, Cataluna, Michigan, and the RX locations from Dirt 4? of course they did. and of course they re-use assets both within and across rally locations. not every single tree and bush is uniquely different. and the RX tracks are looped so why are there massive frame drops then with only 5 other cars on track at most, and why do entire sections of track pop in on some of the RX circuits?

the fact is as well that there are multiple other games on PS4 that are far more graphically demanding than DR2.0 and that also have constant movement and objects continually coming in towards the player that look far better than DR2.0. Spider-man, RDR2 and Horizon: Zero Dawn are just some examples. so your comment about hardware limitations doesn't hold any weight at all, especially since numerous people with PCs more than powerful enough to run the game have reported poor optimization as well. If you want to compare even to previous CM rally games, the original Dirt Rally looks arguably better than DR2.0 does on console.

and again i must ask, if the poor graphics on console are down to hardware limitations than why have all the ancillary effects (god rays, bloom, lens flare, etc.) been turned up to 11 on consoles? why not give console players the choice between two options then in-game - 1080p with full effects, or higher resolution with low/no effects.

your arguments fall apart at every level of analysis. i get that as a moderator you feel the need to defend CM, but doing so using mis-truths does no-one any favors, CM included. 

it's abundently clear that they had to rush the game towards the end (not just the graphics, there are multiple hints to this in the game) which is why it's so poorly optimized, especially for console. 

you don't play on console anyway so really are in no position to comment on the console graphics.

 

Edited by Tranzitive
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

Why the F1 games have a higher visual spec/different options than DiRT Rally.

 

1, Both games originally used the same version of the Ego engine, but that was 10 years ago. Now the 2 engines are now so different that the F1 engine cannot be used for DiRT Rally.

 

2, One is a looped track, inside a closed off arena with multi use graphical assets (A seating stand in UK is the same one used in China), that has been worked on year after year, which allows the devs to refine the graphics, meaning better graphics with each release. The other is a 10km stretch of road that uses single use graphical assets, and the tracks change with each game.

So, one can use a bunch of the same graphics on all tracks, the other can't. Well, it can if you don't mind the same houses, road signs, roads etc whether you're in the Panzerplatte or Monte Carlo. But we do mind, we want the stages to look as close to the real thing as possible. That was one of the things we asked for at the beginning of the "What would you like in a rally sim?" period of DiRT Rally development. Realistic handling, real sounds, real stages, real cars.

3, Your options are also limited by your hardware. Your graphic card has to load all those assets before the race starts. I have 3 graphic cards for my pc, a single GTX1060 and 2 GTX970's. The 1060 has 6g of ram, the 970's have 3.5 each. I can run both 970's together in SLi. You'd think that that would mean that I now have 7g of ram from the 2 970's, meaning better graphics, but it doesn't work like that. Both cards use the same graphical assets at the same time, so I still only have 3.5g of ram. And that affects my graphic settings, a lot. What looks amazing on the 1060 doesn't work on the 970's. I have to downgrade the graphic settings quite a bit to get it running smoothly at 60fps, which is why they are now sitting in their boxes and the 1060 is sitting in my pc.

 

That link of @nbates66 also explains why devs like Codies have become somewhat circumspect in the amount of information that they will give out about patches, bug fixes etc.

 

"HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console’s memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.

But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done."

 

 

 

Clearly is not the same a game of racing circuits than Rally. Circuits are circuits, always are the same circuits in a closed area. Rally is a completely different thing, and I love every location of DiRT Rally and DiRT Rally 2. Every rally is different and you can see clearly how close the virtual ones are to the real ones!

Sound and the handling in DiRT Rally and DiRT Rally 2 are excellent. And this is really important for me.

Edited by CarlesWRC
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2 hours ago, Tranzitive said:

in response to Skiddy:

Where is your source for your claim in number 1? both games still use EGO, which is based on Sony's PhyreEngine. so the engine base is the same, and both games quite clearly have that 'EGO engine look' about them. to call them 'completely different engines' is a misnomer at best and outright false at worse.

regarding your comment on looped tracks: you think Dirt doesn't re-use assets? you really think they didn't re-use assets from Australia, Cataluna, Michigan, and the RX locations from Dirt 4? of course they did. and of course they re-use assets both within and across rally locations. not every single tree and bush is uniquely different. and the RX tracks are looped so why are there massive frame drops then with only 5 other cars on track at most, and why do entire sections of track pop in on some of the RX circuits?

the fact is as well that there are multiple other games on PS4 that are far more graphically demanding than DR2.0 and that also have constant movement and objects continually coming in towards the player that look far better than DR2.0. Spider-man, RDR2 and Horizon: Zero Dawn are just some examples. so your comment about hardware limitations doesn't hold any weight at all, especially since numerous people with PCs more than powerful enough to run the game have reported poor optimization as well. If you want to compare even to previous CM rally games, the original Dirt Rally looks arguably better than DR2.0 does on console.

and again i must ask, if the poor graphics on console are down to hardware limitations than why have all the ancillary effects (god rays, bloom, lens flare, etc.) been turned up to 11 on consoles? why not give console players the choice between two options then in-game - 1080p with full effects, or higher resolution with low/no effects.

your arguments fall apart at every level of analysis. i get that as a moderator you feel the need to defend CM, but doing so using mis-truths does no-one any favors, CM included. 

it's abundently clear that they had to rush the game towards the end (not just the graphics, there are multiple hints to this in the game) which is why it's so poorly optimized, especially for console. 

you don't play on console anyway so really are in no position to comment on the console graphics.

 

Source for number one was all over the old forum, where it was discussed many times, by forum members and Codies staff. Even down to the fact that they tried to use the F1 version for the tarmac stages in DiRT Rally but it didn't work, because the two engines had evolved so differently.

 

Of course they reuse some assets, but a lot of them are single use items. Again, this was all discussed in the old forum, by Codies and members.

 

You don't know how graphically demanding any game is compared to any other game you have not worked on, or discussed with the game makers.

 

I don't know why Codies chose the options they chose when it came to consoles, they haven't discussed that with anybody except Codemasters. The fact that they didn't rush out a pretty graphic fix straight away shows you it isn't as easy as you seem to think. I do know that it took me a while to figure out which graphic options worked best for my card, with only myself to please. Codies have to do it on a less capable graphics card and have to keep a load of PS4 owners happy.

 

I'm not defending Codies because I'm a Mod. I'm defending them because 10 years ago I and a bunch of other forum members asked them to make a rally sim. What we asked for became DiRT Rally 1 and 2.0. Anybody who was here at that time can tell you just how close Codies got to our wishlist. (Clue, they nailed it, stages, gametypes, even co drivers - picked by forum members). The co driver in DiRT Rally is Paul Coleman aka @KickUp, head of DiRT Rally's game design, he has 2 real world drivers, Jon Tucker and Rallycameraman, both forum members. (The driver in DiRT Rally and DiRT4 is Jon Tucker, one of the in game liveries is Jon's Subaru). Name me one other games company that has worked so closely, for so long with it's fans.

 

I do agree that it could have done with a bit more development time, but that isn't down to the dev's. That's down to the management, who as far as I know, don't read the forums.

 

Who said I don't play on consoles? The only games I play on pc are DiRT Rally and DiRT Rally 2.0, every other game I play on Xbox. I even play DiRT Rally 1 and DiRT4 on Xbox. I only built the pc so I could play DiRT Rally. Know why? Because of the very thing you are complaining about. The graphics suck on consoles, not just on DiRT Rally, but almost every game. You have limited options and why is that? Console hardware limitations.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
The Subaru comes when you go to the PSN store about the game, you see a picture of this car

Its The Third Car for The Group N4 and The Car from Peter Solberg

image.png.29ad58f4d7a288a9a68ecb9490151b53.png

 

 

Edited by gleylancer571

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1 hour ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

Source for number one was all over the old forum, where it was discussed many times, by forum members and Codies staff. Even down to the fact that they tried to use the F1 version for the tarmac stages in DiRT Rally but it didn't work, because the two engines had evolved so differently.

 

Of course they reuse some assets, but a lot of them are single use items. Again, this was all discussed in the old forum, by Codies and members.

 

You don't know how graphically demanding any game is compared to any other game you have not worked on, or discussed with the game makers.

 

I don't know why Codies chose the options they chose when it came to consoles, they haven't discussed that with anybody except Codemasters. The fact that they didn't rush out a pretty graphic fix straight away shows you it isn't as easy as you seem to think. I do know that it took me a while to figure out which graphic options worked best for my card, with only myself to please. Codies have to do it on a less capable graphics card and have to keep a load of PS4 owners happy.

 

I'm not defending Codies because I'm a Mod. I'm defending them because 10 years ago I and a bunch of other forum members asked them to make a rally sim. What we asked for became DiRT Rally 1 and 2.0. Anybody who was here at that time can tell you just how close Codies got to our wishlist. (Clue, they nailed it, stages, gametypes, even co drivers - picked by forum members). The co driver in DiRT Rally is Paul Coleman aka @KickUp, head of DiRT Rally's game design, he has 2 real world drivers, Jon Tucker and Rallycameraman, both forum members. (The driver in DiRT Rally and DiRT4 is Jon Tucker, one of the in game liveries is Jon's Subaru). Name me one other games company that has worked so closely, for so long with it's fans.

 

I do agree that it could have done with a bit more development time, but that isn't down to the dev's. That's down to the management, who as far as I know, don't read the forums.

 

Who said I don't play on consoles? The only games I play on pc are DiRT Rally and DiRT Rally 2.0, every other game I play on Xbox. I even play DiRT Rally 1 and DiRT4 on Xbox. I only built the pc so I could play DiRT Rally. Know why? Because of the very thing you are complaining about. The graphics suck on consoles, not just on DiRT Rally, but almost every game. You have limited options and why is that? Console hardware limitations.

 

 

I couldn't be more agree with you. Some people just don't understand how much amazing is this game. A lot of years passed, I'm a rally fan since the beginning 2000's, and there are a few really good rally games. I can count them with only one hand and I don't need every finger to do it.

Some people maybe need some fresh air.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, CarlesWRC said:

I couldn't be more agree with you. Some people just don't understand how much amazing is this game. A lot of years passed, I'm a rally fan since the beginning 2000's, and there are a few really good rally games. I can count them with only one hand and I don't need every finger to do it.

Some people maybe need some fresh air.

I have to say that I uninstalled the game yesterday. I will watch from the sideline now how (or IF) the game improves in the next couple of months (apart from the paid stuff).

The game is out for nearly 2 months now, and to be honest I was expecting Codemasters to mostly fulfill community-wishes at this point, not for the most part still fix the stuff that should have worked from the beginning. And then stuff still isn´t fixed (the Audio Bug for example, or the Racenet-Issues). But if the timeframe for patching stays this way (one patch every 3-4 weeks) I see the game needing minimum another 6 months to just be in a state that it should have had on release (if they´re plannning to fix all the bugs anyway).

For me personally DR2.0 is the biggest disappointment of recent times; in some ways even a bigger one than Dirt4 (and that´s saying a lot). Which is sad, because I too think that the driving can be a huge amount of fun (when the Audio works, or Racenet doesn´t have its usual hiccups), but so much around that is just annoyingy lacklustre in my opinion.

I personally don´t blame the devs themselves, who as I can imagine are working pretty hard. I blame the higher management, who decided to release this game WAY too early, and maybe now isn´t putting enough manpower behind the game to fix it.

I´m not someone who is happy about being disappointed and writing stuff like that. I REALLY wanted DR2.0 to succeed. But I´m also not a person who hides his criticisms when I feel a letdown as huge as this. I really hope Codemasters can fix all the major stuff, and that at some point in the future DR2.0 can maybe get some kind of a "second life".

 

 

Edited by Civarello
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4 hours ago, Civarello said:

I have to say that I uninstalled the game yesterday. I will watch from the sideline now how (or IF) the game improves in the next couple of months (apart from the paid stuff).

The game is out for nearly 2 months now, and to be honest I was expecting Codemasters to mostly fulfill community-wishes at this point, not for the most part still fix the stuff that should have worked from the beginning. And then stuff still isn´t fixed (the Audio Bug for example, or the Racenet-Issues). But if the timeframe for patching stays this way (one patch every 3-4 weeks) I see the game needing minimum another 6 months to just be in a state that it should have had on release (if they´re plannning to fix all the bugs anyway).

For me personally DR2.0 is the biggest disappointment of recent times; in some ways even a bigger one than Dirt4 (and that´s saying a lot). Which is sad, because I too think that the driving can be a huge amount of fun (when the Audio works, or Racenet doesn´t have its usual hiccups), but so much around that is just annoyingy lacklustre in my opinion.

I personally don´t blame the devs themselves, who as I can imagine are working pretty hard. I blame the higher management, who decided to release this game WAY too early, and maybe now isn´t putting enough manpower behind the game to fix it.

I´m not someone who is happy about being disappointed and writing stuff like that. I REALLY wanted DR2.0 to succeed. But I´m also not a person who hides his criticisms when I feel a letdown as huge as this. I really hope Codemasters can fix all the major stuff, and that at some point in the future DR2.0 can maybe get some kind of a "second life". 

 

 

Maybe I have a different opinion because I don't have any problems like you (or at least, for now). I just have some fps drops but only in crowded sections, so overall the performance is good, despite that I'm not playing in a high end PC (GTX 970). The game itself is really good (despite some problems like dark areas, AI balance..), and I'm enjoying a lot every hour of gaming. But the problems that you have really sucks, you can't play with this kind of problems, so I can understand you.

 

In wich platform do you play?

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On 4/16/2019 at 3:04 PM, gleylancer571 said:

The Subaru comes when you go to the PSN store about the game, you see a picture of this car

Its The Third Car for The Group N4 and The Car from Peter Solberg

image.png.29ad58f4d7a288a9a68ecb9490151b53.png

 

 

Why’s it showing up in 2000 class then ?i believe it’s wrc going from interior on the video posted not r4 or production interior 

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yes, my mistake was I thought it would be a Gruop R4 Subaru
Codemasters seems to have the license of Peter Solberg cars maybe even comes his Citroen Xsara

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2 hours ago, gleylancer571 said:

when will be announced what will be in season two ?

It would be really cool if they added this car. Maybe they will do that when they will be preparing Season Two. And when will be announced what will be in this season? Well, I suppose it will be announced when Season One will be already done so after 21st May. Or maybe even soon??? Who knows?

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, gleylancer571 said:

yes, my mistake was I thought it would be a Gruop R4 Subaru
Codemasters seems to have the license of Peter Solberg cars maybe even comes his Citroen Xsara

no they don't. they just work closely with him, apprently 🙂

On 4/21/2019 at 3:20 PM, gleylancer571 said:

when will be announced what will be in season two ?

probably first or second week of may, based on when Season 1 content was announced 

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On 4/9/2019 at 9:57 AM, MattyH1812 said:

But, it's 2 years newer than DiRT 4, of course it's going to perform worse on the same console due to the improvements in gaming in general. Being annoyed at this is like getting GTA V on PS3 in 2015 and being annoyed that the graphics aren't the same as on the PS4

No, it'd be like getting GTA IV on PS3, then later getting GTA V on PS3 and wondering why GTA V looks so much worse on the same generation. We don't expect PS4/XB1 to look as good as PS4P/XB1X but to be close to, if not better than, the previous game on the same console.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the update Christina. Pleased to hear the BMW M1 is getting a sound update. Can you confirm when the updated audio / sound pack will be released for the Mk2 Escort ? The current sound is, sadly, not even close to a 1976 Group 4 works Escort !

Cheers.

 

 

 

Edited by Busterbvi
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On 4/26/2019 at 6:31 PM, Busterbvi said:

Thanks for the update Christina. Pleased to hear the BMW M1 is getting a sound update. Can you confirm when the updated audio / sound pack will be released for the Mk2 Escort ? The current sound is, sadly, not even close to a 1976 Group 4 works Escort !

Cheers.

 

 

 

The M1 is already updated and since the Escort uses a IRL BDA sample I doubt they will update that car at any point, like it or not. 

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20 minutes ago, bogani said:

The M1 is already updated and since the Escort uses a IRL BDA sample I doubt they will update that car at any point, like it or not. 

I read somewhere that there is an update coming for the Escort, what is IRL ?

 

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3 minutes ago, Busterbvi said:

I read somewhere that there is an update coming for the Escort, what is IRL ?

 

Where did you read that? 

IRL: In real life, they recorded a real BDA and used as the Escort sample. 

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Not sure, it was a while ago, forum / roadbook / blog ??? Anyway, have a read of my comments on another Audio thread here. Watch the vid of the 1977 RAC Escorts in action.

Codies Escort sound is not even close, sorry !! :classic_mellow:

 

 

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