How Far Away Is Realistic Audio?

[FLAW3D 477]

One of DRs most impressive features is without a doubt the sound. However watching videos of on board cameras its still a long long way off from being realistic and thats a common theme with sims throughout. 

Just how far away are we from getting sound like this?

That sound with VR next gen would be such an exhilarating experience but are we still 10 years away or more? Could we see realistic sound next gen?

[chukonu 476]

Shitty microphones like in the video is not realistic at all. Car sounds in DiRT Rally 2.0 are extremely good unless you are deaf. You do know they record many cars professionally inside and outside the actual cars right? You can't get much more realistic than what Codemasters has made.

[FLAW3D 477]

28 minutes ago, chukonu said:

****** microphones like in the video is not realistic at all. Car sounds in DiRT Rally 2.0 are extremely good unless you are deaf. You do know they record many cars professionally inside and outside the actual cars right? You can't get much more realistic than what Codemasters has made.

People are really touchy on this forum aint they. I dont think what we have is super realistic i dont think any sim has ever came close to realistic audio though Raceroom seems the clear leader at this point.

[F2CMaDMaXX 505]

So unfortunately the audio you hear on most in-car stuff isn't totally accurate, it's a weird mix we've all become used to over time.

In DR/2 you've got microphones sampled at various points in/around the car, the game engine mixes levels depending on where your camera/view is situated.  What about the audio is it you're not feeling right now?  (a lot of the sound in that video above is actually just distortion)

[Rallystu2 715]

The sound in a real rally car is a bit more brutal, but to be fair you'd get complaints about not hearing the co driver properly if it was mixed any differently. And yea I think the above video is largely down to distortion.

[Dytut 89]

12 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

One of DRs most impressive features is without a doubt the sound. However watching videos of on board cameras its still a long long way off from being realistic and thats a common theme with sims throughout. 

Just how far away are we from getting sound like this?

That sound with VR next gen would be such an exhilarating experience but are we still 10 years away or more? Could we see realistic sound next gen?

You can get that sound in-game. Take a distortion pedal, jack it into your PC, then jack your headphones into it. Success! 😛 

As for audio dynamics, I think there might be a point in doing more compression to mimic that a rally car feels loud pretty much all the time. But that's nitpicking.

[FLAW3D 477]

All sims devs take mics into cars these days, It doesnt mean the sound created back in the studio is truly realistic. The 2 cockpit cams you can barely hear the pops and bangs from the exhaust, I dont think the transmission whine is anywhere near realistic in the game nor stone/gravel effects hitting the underside of the car. it's almost like the car is insulated/sound dampened like a road car. 

Everything just seems so clean and polished compared to RL. 

[Pieman99 202]

12 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

People are really touchy on this forum aint they. I dont think what we have is super realistic i dont think any sim has ever came close to realistic audio though Raceroom seems the clear leader at this point.

Agreed, to quote your original post, “one of dr’s most impressive features is without doubt the sound”. 

And the first response is you getting lambasted for “hating” on the game and slagging it off😂

The irony is your post was about the mere possibility seeing improvement in sims as a whole, not dr.

 

the sound of dr2 impresses me too, for the record.

[Murikka 251]

16 minutes ago, FLAW3D said:

All sims devs take mics into cars these days, It doesnt mean the sound created back in the studio is truly realistic. The 2 cockpit cams you can barely hear the pops and bangs from the exhaust, I dont think the transmission whine is anywhere near realistic in the game nor stone/gravel effects hitting the underside of the car. it's almost like the car is insulated/sound dampened like a road car. 

Everything just seems so clean and polished compared to RL. 

You would be so disappointed if you drive an actual race car with helmet on. 

All the pops and bangs and wroom wroom noises aren't that loud anymore inside the car then. I think the loudest noise, or at least what I remember best from that time I used to drive race cars was stones hitting the floor pan.

Also my summer car doesn't have any sound insulator in it anymore and it has just small SIMONS mufflers, but it's not really THAT loud inside the car, as the exhaust goes all the way to the back of the car. When it still had hater pipes that was underneath the front seat, it was horrendous. It was so stupidly loud and the whole car used to resonate on certain rpms. Don't get me wrong, it's still stupidly loud but not for the passengers.  It's funny how exhaust works.

 

[FLAW3D 477]

6 minutes ago, Murikka said:

You would be so disappointed if you drive an actual race car with helmet on. 

All the pops and bangs and wroom wroom noises aren't that loud anymore inside the car then. I think the loudest noise, or at least what I remember best from that time I used to drive race cars was stones hitting the floor pan.

Also my summer car doesn't have any sound insulator in it anymore and it has just small SIMONS mufflers, but it's not really THAT loud inside the car, as the exhaust goes all the way to the back of the car. When it still had hater pipes that was underneath the front seat, it was horrendous. It was so stupidly loud and the whole car used to resonate on certain rpms. Don't get me wrong, it's still stupidly loud but not for the passengers.  It's funny how exhaust works.

 

Yeah but this is a game, If people want to sit in their living rooms with actual helmets on for that true experience thats all good i dont think Codies are simulating the sound here regarding a helmet. SMS do with the helmet cam and it has a big difference like you say but we do not have a helmet cam in DR only 2 cockpits. 

My Clubman Cooper S pops and bangs and not hugely loud yet you can hear it no problem at all in cockpit, Rally cars pops and bangs are insanely louder than my Clubman so i have no doubt they are really audible alot of the times in the cockpit. 

[Murikka 251]

I can hear all these pops and bangs in game, at least with mk2 escort, as I mainly use it. I can't see how the sound is now the problem. 

Recorded audio is always recorded audio. It just can't sound as nice as it does in RL. 

[FLAW3D 477]

7 minutes ago, Murikka said:

I can hear all these pops and bangs in game, at least with mk2 escort, as I mainly use it. I can't see how the sound is now the problem. 

Recorded audio is always recorded audio. It just can't sound as nice as it does in RL. 

Sound isnt a problem, im asking how far away are we to getingt close to 100% realistic sound. Raceroom id say has got the closest so far? By the way there is **** all wrong with wanting better sound in the future unless what your saying is we cannot get better which i certainly do not believe is true. 

[Murikka 251]

For me it sound almost as good as it can. So I'd say it's quite realistic. Even better when I turned the engine sound down.

I can't say anything about raceroom, as I don't even know what game that is. 

[Rallystu2 715]

Yea I'd like more of the raw sound, particularly gravel and als sounds in cockpit, even though it may not be fully realistic. I think one of the issues is getting the mix right with the co driver. That said the sound is pretty beautiful as is.

[richie 522]

1 hour ago, Rallystu2 said:

 I think one of the issues is getting the mix right with the co driver. That said the sound is pretty beautiful as is.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. At the moment I can barely hear Mr. Mills when driving the Fabia Rally because it's so loud. Awesome but too loud. Also, many people mix up cockpit sound and exhaust sound. It's not realistic to have the exhaust sound in the cockpit. The most extreme example is what Kunos are doing in ACC. Exhaust pipes do not end in the cockpit if engineers did their homework right, but people are praising the sounds, I don't get it, it's so overdone and just unrealistic in my view. 

We all know how the Fiesta WRC and the other cars sound when they fly by, but this is actually how it sounds in the cockpit --> 

https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status/1104378800735965185

Loving the turbo whistle sound 😍

I think the sound in DR2.0 overall is pretty awesome. 

[FLAW3D 477]

No one is going to be able to convince me you would not be able to hear the exhaust & pops n bangs with these cars in the cockpit.

DR2.0 does have them but they are extremely muted. Wife and kids are heading out in an hour so im going to guy the home cinema cranked up LOUD as most of my play has been through Sennheiser HD650 and the amp. 

[Murikka 251]

Some lovely gearbox whine from mk2 Escort. 

 

[redriot77 91]

I found one little weirdness regarding sounds: tire skid sounds are not always audible in the proper place.

For example you can hear tire screeching when you drifting on snow on the upper regions in Monte Carlo. In the car  haven't noticed it but on trackside camera replay it was really weird. The car slides around on thick snow layer and ghe tires are screeching like they are on dry tarmac.

I've also run into the completely opposite: Australia, dry road, clear weather, daytime. There is a looong tarmac straight with a square right at its end. I threw the Manta into a huge drift, as I remember the tires screeching loudly. I hardly could wait to watch the replay. After finish I watched it (trackside cam) and the car drifted through the corner with silent tires. 😕

Anyone else experienced things like that?

[Murikka 251]

That is bug and I think I read that it will be fixed in next patch

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

2 hours ago, FLAW3D said:

No one is going to be able to convince me you would not be able to hear the exhaust & pops n bangs with these cars in the cockpit.

DR2.0 does have them but they are extremely muted. Wife and kids are heading out in an hour so im going to guy the home cinema cranked up LOUD as most of my play has been through Sennheiser HD650 and the amp. 

What pops and bangs in the cockpit?

 

 

[FLAW3D 477]

1 hour ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

What pops and bangs in the cockpit?

 

 

Are you kidding? You hear them constantly in that vid. 

[F2CMaDMaXX 505]

Alright, so in replays, tyre sounds on ice aren't always correct, but they are/should be on the actual play through.

 

@FLAW3D the sounds recorded by other studios are for reference, and i think some sampled portions, but they are still composed in the studio.  CM actually record the sounds in a specific way and then use the sounds directly.  Whilst it's not technically correct to say they're not created, it's still pretty much the case, the sound the mic's heard is the sound getting played through the physics engine. 

It makes it a little harder to get things like gear change pops and other things in there like say dirt 3 had, but that's because they didn't have the sound engine tied to the physics engine back then, since DR, this is how it works, so the result of you lifting off, or causing the engine to bog down or when the tyres grip up or lose grip.

 

In the quattro video, don't mistake the sound of transmission lash as other pings/rattles/bangs for the exhaust pops.  Other than i think that car has it's exhaust existing right behind the front wheel, you're essentially not really picking up bangs from the exhaust in that video.  See the MSport vid linked above for the example of what you'll hear in car, that thing popples and bangs big time on the overrun, but you don't hear anything in that onboard.

[FLAW3D 477]

So after solely playing the game in one of the cockpit cams since release my findings on the sound after making the full street rumble are...

Bumper & Bonnet/Roof cam - The sound is crystal clear, You hear every single stone and leaf you go over with tons of sound coming from the back speakers. You hear the exhaust n the pops n bangs a bit. 

The 2 Cockpit cams - Muffled. Without a doubt they are simulating the helmet being on the driver hence it does not sound anywhere near as brutal as the on board rally vids we see. Back speakers turn very low with barely anything coming out of them and the leaves and stones in the cockpit are very low compared to Bumper. No exhaust or pops and bangs coming through. 

Chase Cams - The sound disappears here its incredible low compared to other views. What you do hear is all through the front speakers but you do hear some very nice deep exhaust notes pops n bangs and gurgles but they are so low. 

 

Wee vid
 

 

Again before anyone jumps on the bandwagon about me not liking the sound like i said in the original post the sound is very good and i love how they kept the bottom end in to shake the room (PCARS 2 they took all the bottom end out) but i feel it could be much better in some areas. Would love it if they had an option for cockpit cam to remove the "helmet sound" and it just be raw cockpit audio. Think it just needs a bit more better mixing as well for the rear sounds in cockpit cam be it exhaust or gravel/leaves/creaking of the car. Neither view seems to have any transmission wine on the few cars i tested has it been totally left out? Does the MKII escort have it like the vid above?

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Why would they add a 'Remove helmet' option when wearing a helmet is mandatory in motorsport?

[F2CMaDMaXX 505]

Ahh, you're using a surround setup, ok.  Oh, go check a rear engined car 🙂 

Some cars engine audio is out of balance, it's too loud vs other sounds (it's being worked on), some speaker setups suffer more from this than others for example, even on the cars with (too) loud engine audio, i have zero issues understanding Phil.

Cockpit shouldn't sound muffled, i wonder if in surround setup somethings different? try setting your system to stereo for as test.

Rear cams shouldn't play anything from the rear speakers, there's nothing behind you...