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Everything frustrating with Dirt Rally 2

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59 minutes ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

How would you feel if F1 2019 had 6 launch circuits, with the remainder added as recycled season pass DLC on a fortnightly basis? The fact remains that for a game with "Rally" (not Rallycross) as it's primary selling point, base content in no way reflects anything remotely close to a full rally championship, so to add paid for DLC in order to give the end user a more satisfying experience is a little underhand in thee first place. To add recycled season pass DLC that could just as easilly been added to the base game simply cannot be condoned.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure Codemasters will learn from this and in future titles will hold back some of the new content for post-launch release rather than the updated content.

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5 hours ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

How would you feel if F1 2019 had 6 launch circuits, with the remainder added as recycled season pass DLC on a fortnightly basis?

If Codies had the WRC licence I would be more than slightly annoyed. But they don't, so it means nothing as they can't model the game too closely on the WRC because, somebody else holds the licence.

5 hours ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

The fact remains that for a game with "Rally" (not Rallycross) as it's primary selling point, base content in no way reflects anything remotely close to a full rally championship

Really?

https://www.wrc.com/en/jwrc/calendar/calendar/page/901--98--.html

Junior WRC has 5 countries, DR2 has 6. Unless of course you're saying that the JWRC isn't a real rally championship?

5 hours ago, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

To add recycled season pass DLC that could just as easilly been added to the base game simply cannot be condoned.

Forum members asked for the old stages as DLC as soon as they found out there was going to be a DiRT Rally 2.0. In fact when Codies asked what we wanted in DiRT Rally 2 a lot of people specifically requested the DR1 stages as DLC. Codies didn't have to deliver, especially considering our opinions in the past around here on DLC's i.e No fluff like the stuff in DiRT2 - horn packs and dash ornaments, we wanted real content - cars and stages.

 

BTW, Rallycross was also requested by forum members from the start of DiRT Rally discussions, because something was needed to bring in the casual user, because believe it or not, not everyone wants to spend day after day learning the unforgiving stages in a rally, the wierdos :classic_laugh:

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I agree with you on that. It's a bit mean to offer existing tracks as DLC when they were launch tracks in the previous game. On the other hand there will be players who haven't played the earlier titles so Dirt 2.0 will be new to them. Brand new tracks would have been better as DLC and existing ones, however freshened up should have been included at launch.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

If Codies had the WRC licence I would be more than slightly annoyed. But they don't, so it means nothing as they can't model the game too closely on the WRC because, somebody else holds the licence.

Really?

https://www.wrc.com/en/jwrc/calendar/calendar/page/901--98--.html

Junior WRC has 5 countries, DR2 has 6. Unless of course you're saying that the JWRC isn't a real rally championship?

Forum members asked for the old stages as DLC as soon as they found out there was going to be a DiRT Rally 2.0. In fact when Codies asked what we wanted in DiRT Rally 2 a lot of people specifically requested the DR1 stages as DLC. Codies didn't have to deliver, especially considering our opinions in the past around here on DLC's i.e No fluff like the stuff in DiRT2 - horn packs and dash ornaments, we wanted real content - cars and stages.

 

BTW, Rallycross was also requested by forum members from the start of DiRT Rally discussions, because something was needed to bring in the casual user, because believe it or not, not everyone wants to spend day after day learning the unforgiving stages in a rally, the wierdos :classic_laugh:

I'm one of those that wanted DR1 locations back in 2.0 (although I didn't really manifest my wish in the proper channels) and I welcome them with open arms. In the end if all of those end up being ported, we'll have a 12-event calendar, which is amazing in the current days of rally games. We could argue about other games having the same or even more, but noone detains the stage quality that DR has presented so far and that's a big point to consider, let alone physics, car variety and stage degradation.

However, I'm still hoping there's room for one or two more rallies to join the party. Corsica and Portugal have been highly requested, so far we know Ireland is off the book but there has been a silence regarding any others. Regardless if these come or not, 12 is an already happy number.

It would be great if Codemasters were able to get the WRC license in the same terms as WRX, by making it a mode inside the game, in order to become possible to retain the other car classes and modes. It would be the perfect combination, because the WRC game is simply WRC oriented. If that would be of Codemasters' interest of course, because we don't know if it's either GmbH simply prefering to give the license to another company, with their restricted terms, or if it's Codemasters lack of interest in acquiring the license based on GmbH's terms.

I think the WRX example works very nicely and has been thoroughly praised by their promoters, so I think the WRC promoters would only benefit from this, as well as Codemasters, if the terms and implementation would be the same as the WRX is.

The only field where WRX falls behind in this game is the amount of people playing it, but that's due to WRX's own lacking public.

Edited by Riggs
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On 5/1/2019 at 12:58 PM, Civarello said:

So what you´re saying is that the majority of people who are against this Always Online-Requirement for the SP-Career and Single Player Games in general are people who pirated the game ? Wow. Wish my world was so easy.........

I do own the game on Steam. But as soon as i heard about the Always Online-stuff it was off my to-buy list. I ONLY own it now because my girlfriend bought it as a gift for me (without my knowledge of course); but even then I was hesitant to activate it....to not support these kind of practices.

And just because YOU didn´t have problems does mean what ? That all the people who did have their Career reset (what happens to this day btw, which is ridiculous in itself) or couldn´t compete in the Online Events are pulling these things out of their nose ?

I didn´t have THAT many problems with Racenet as well. But I don´t have to experience these bugs myself to be against the Online Requirement. My main point is still that I want to be sure that the WHOLE game is still playable in the future, and doesn´t have some kind of "best before"-date written on it´s main SP-Mode. 

Ah, teknoid giving a "Thums Down" instead of replying is of course a great way to have a discussion. Great Job 🙂

The funny thing is, Letting out the first 2 weeks after release, 99 % Of the people i´ve heard talking about career Resets are some entitled White knights who wont play the game at all because they MAY be reset, And like 1 % Of people that actually got reset.

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4 hours ago, SkiddyMcCrash said:

If Codies had the WRC licence I would be more than slightly annoyed. But they don't, so it means nothing as they can't model the game too closely on the WRC because, somebody else holds the licence.

Really?

https://www.wrc.com/en/jwrc/calendar/calendar/page/901--98--.html

Junior WRC has 5 countries, DR2 has 6. Unless of course you're saying that the JWRC isn't a real rally championship?

Forum members asked for the old stages as DLC as soon as they found out there was going to be a DiRT Rally 2.0. In fact when Codies asked what we wanted in DiRT Rally 2 a lot of people specifically requested the DR1 stages as DLC. Codies didn't have to deliver, especially considering our opinions in the past around here on DLC's i.e No fluff like the stuff in DiRT2 - horn packs and dash ornaments, we wanted real content - cars and stages.

 

BTW, Rallycross was also requested by forum members from the start of DiRT Rally discussions, because something was needed to bring in the casual user, because believe it or not, not everyone wants to spend day after day learning the unforgiving stages in a rally, the wierdos :classic_laugh:

Yeah I get that Codemasters don't have any official WRC licencing and my point wasn't aimed in that direction - It was simply a rally in general reference. My argument is, remains and will not be altered that *especially) with this point in mind Codemasters effectively had a clean slate on which to create a complete and comprehensive game 'based on', well, just about any real life venue without the costs or constraints of licencing. If both Milestone (WRC / XBox 360) and KTR (WRC 6 and 7) cann deliver something approaching respectability (choice and variety) on a tight budget AND with the licencing ball and chain costs then I fail to understand why Codemasters, a company of far greater stature, cannot achieve similar targets.

Where DLC is concerned i'm as happy as the next person that new content is added into a game but at the end of the day (and irrespective of it's cost) that DLC should be there to enhance an already great product and not used as a means to bolster up minimal base content for a game that retails on an AAA price tag, so whilst I do respect your loyalty and enthusiasm towards Codemasters / Dirt Rally (delete where applicable) I on this occasion find it a little more difficult to justify the way in which theu have gone about their business with DR2 (it all feels a bit penny pinching to me). I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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I don't mind agreeing to disagree, from where you stand it doesn't make much sense but the design parameters for DiRT Rally and DiRT Rally 2.0 were laid out a long time ago (both games come from the same discussions). This included game types and stages. They were picked by forum members. DLC wasn't wanted by the people who helped choose what we wanted for DiRT Rally, so it didn't have it (like I said, we didn't want the type of DLC Codies had offered before, we were only interested in real content DLC's).

When DiRT Rally was finally released new players started asking for DLC, and the easiest way to deliver that was to remake the old stages from DiRT Rally and improve things about the stages that had been brought up when the original game was released. The reason we asked them to include the previous stages as DLC was to further fund the development of the series. Incidentally, it also makes sense from a game design standpoint as it combines everything we originally asked for into the one game. The DiRT Rally games are intended to be a continuous work in progress, based on feedback from the players and while the f1 games are already sim based, it was a new thing for the DiRT series. It took a long time to convince the moneymen that a rally sim could be profitable.

Others have noticed that it can be a money maker if done right (looking at you, WRC) and turned their attention to producing more realistic rally games (part of the original plan, ssshhh don't tell anybody). Which is a win win for everyone who wants more realism in their rally games.

 

As for where my loyalty stands, there is no delete where applicable. I was one of the people who originally asked them to make DiRT Rally, and Codies have delivered on a 10 year promise. Which deserves loyalty, both to the game and the team who make it.

 

But anyway, thanks for polite disagreement, it's refreshing after the past couple of months of wading through the same post over and over again and being branded a fanboy for trying to explain stuff to people.

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, paint21 said:

The funny thing is, Letting out the first 2 weeks after release, 99 % Of the people i´ve heard talking about career Resets are some entitled White knights who wont play the game at all because they MAY be reset, And like 1 % Of people that actually got reset.

Even if it´s only 1 %, how does that make things any better ? The fact that it still happens is ridiculous; as I said. I never said that it still happens to a lot of people, only that it still happens. Even if it´s only that 1%, that is still something that should not happen AT ALL. 

And I don´t get this "Of the people i´ve heard talking about career Resets are some entitled White knights who wont play the game at all because they MAY be reset"; why are those people "entitled", when they expect the game to NOT reset their progress ? And aren´t "White Knights" normally people who defend a game, not criticize it ? So this sentence doesn´t make that much sense to me.....

Edited by Civarello

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Posted (edited)

i also feel frustrated with DR2 compared to DR's driving physics. DR2 feels much too arcadish for my taste. The old physics were much better and really gave me the feeling of driving a rally car in a rally. For example the braking distance of cars in DR2 is much too short. You can easily brake down until you stop and the car doesn't slip much when braking. In DR good braking was essential to keep the car on the road without kissing some trees. This made the game so much fun drive. I can't really understand why they changed the physics so much compared to DR! I also don't like the stages build in DR2 that much. So i'm happy that they will add the old stages as DLC.

Edited by Makromatic
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Real physics without car weight ?! Are you kiding ?

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i don't want real physics i want to have fun while driving...what do you say about the braking distance?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Makromatic said:

i don't want real physics i want to have fun while driving...what do you say about the braking distance?

It's so much fun driving in DiRT Rally 2.0, even more than in DR1, the braking distance is fine. But if that's not enough fun for you and you look for something less realistic or more arcadey, there's a vast selection to choose from:

Resultado de imagem para dirt 3 coverimage.jpeg.02d73f330f85f36b1c156c5e69e94e8a.jpegimage.jpeg.19330f10ab8355cf1914224850457836.jpeg

Edited by Riggs
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22 minutes ago, Makromatic said:

i don't want real physics i want to have fun while driving...what do you say about the braking distance?

Put brake strength to 10 and play :)

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On 5/3/2019 at 11:36 AM, Makromatic said:

For example the braking distance of cars in DR2 is much too short.

Braking is much trickier in DR2, not sure what you are smoking. 

We could quite easily go back to 10 years without a decent rally sim, and probably will if people keep ******** about every little thing that isn't exactly how they personally would like it to be. Rally is a niche interest, which means there are less people that play it than some of the massive titles out there, so sometimes things cost a little bit of money, sometimes the team working on the content isn't very big, so things take time to do. We are lucky there are people striving to make a good rally sim at all when they could just be cashing in on a flavour of the month battle royale with lootboxes. 

DR2.0 is the best rally game around, it's really frustrating to see people complaining about stupid stuff considering what people were willing to go through to play rsrbr. Keep judging this game by the standards of huge budget mainstream titles and pretty soon we will back to no current rally sims at all. You aren't driving progress with your constant complaints, you are stifling it. 

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Posted (edited)
The handling was good before the 1.02 update. Braking and everything else is now much easier. It was shame that the game was ruined like this.
 
There is too little grip on the snow and too much on the gravel. Not to say anything about asphalt, it's terrible
Edited by J89
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, J89 said:
The handling was good before the 1.02 update. Braking and everything else is now much easier. It was shame that the game was ruined like this.
 
There is too little grip on the snow and too much on the gravel. Not to say anything about asphalt, it's terrible

I have to agree with your observation on grip levels. I don't own Sweden so can't say anything about it, but on gravel some cars, in some conditions, have unrealistic ammounts of grip. R5 class is among the worst in this regard. On asphalt, in some cars, there is too much grip as well, even though, to an untrained eye, it might look as if there isn't but it's because of unrealistic skidding/floating of tires under lateral loads.

Also I haven't played DR1 but judging from some videos on yt cars in DR1 had too little weight to them and there was too much grip as well. DR2 physics is a big step foward towards a simulation, but it isn't there yet. This comes from someone who took part in real amateur rallies and follows all kinds of motorsport since 2005.

I haven't noticed any grip changes since release though and I'm pretty sure it would be mentioned in the patch notes, if it really was changed.

 

Edited by Pistro

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14 hours ago, Pistro said:

I have to agree with your observation on grip levels. I don't own Sweden so can't say anything about it, but on gravel some cars, in some conditions, have unrealistic ammounts of grip. R5 class is among the worst in this regard. On asphalt, in some cars, there is too much grip as well, even though, to an untrained eye, it might look as if there isn't but it's because of unrealistic skidding/floating of tires under lateral loads.

Also I haven't played DR1 but judging from some videos on yt cars in DR1 had too little weight too them and there was too much grip as well. DR2 physics are a big step foward towards a simulation, but it isn't there yet. This comes from someone who took part in real amateur rallies and follows all kinds of motorpost since 2005.

I haven't noticed any grip changes since release though and I'm pretty sure it would be mentioned in the patch notes, if it really was changed.

 

I don't really drive R5 cars or other 4wd cars but with rwd cars grip on gravel feels spot on for me, but on the snow rwd cars lack lateral grip. 

About asphalt I don't say anything, as I don't have any experience driving with slicks and I did hate driving on asphalt anyway when I still drove race cars. First you have all the grip and suddenly none. :classic_laugh:

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