IF the 1999 Impreza will be DLC, which class to put it in?

[SkyRex 417]

Title says it all.

If the famous "22B" would be added, put it in one of the two potential existing classes or create a new one?

[bogani 756]

Not to nitpick, but it'll probably be the 97 or 98 version?

[SkyRex 417]

2 minutes ago, bogani said:

Not to nitpick, but it'll probably be the 97 or 98 version?

Point is, it's not a Group A car by regulation afaik.

And I can not call it WRC, cause of licensing it will certainly not be called WRC.

Also can not call it 22B, cause the forum explodes (and it is arguably the wrong name)

Alternative would be the S5 (using Prodrives naming) but I doubt many would know which car is talked about then.

[tbtstt 2,387]

31 minutes ago, SkyRex said:

Also can not call it 22B, cause the forum explodes (and it is arguably the wrong name)

As infuriating as it would be, it does give CM a way around the problem... 

...I would like to see the Prodrive designation used, but as that has a direct connection to the WRC, I doubt they'd do that. 

"Impreza Rally 1997" or something like that would be an easy way out. 

If we are to get more early WRCars (which seems a reasonable guess), then I think splitting 2000cc is the logical choice.

[gleylancer571 446]

😁

[AyrtJ97 98]

If the '99 WRC Impreza makes its way to the game, I think it should be putted in the "Up to 2000cc" class. That should be the class for 2.0L WRC regardless of the year they are from, if not, the Evo VI shouldn't be a Gr. A and have a class for its own (maybe it's just me, I'm very... erm... I don't know how to express it... salty? about car classes in the DiRT games. No wonder the H classes bug me out!).

[SkyRex 417]

10 minutes ago, AyrtJ97 said:

If the '99 WRC Impreza makes its way to the game, I think it should be putted in the "Up to 2000cc" class. That should be the class for 2.0L WRC regardless of the year they are from, if not, the Evo VI shouldn't be a Gr. A and have a class for its own (maybe it's just me, I'm very... erm... I don't know how to express it... salty? about car classes in the DiRT games. No wonder the H classes bug me out!).

The problem is competitiveness.

The class system is not just to list the cars in a book, but to drive them against each other. And when u look at it this way, the mentioned Impreza never competed against the C4, the Fabia or the Focus 2. With them coming out much later it's also arguable they are faster.

The Evo VI is the best example of this, afaik it is much more competitive in Group A than the other three, if for sequential transmission alone. BUT it did compete in Group A, so it is reasonable to class it there. It did also compete against this Subaru. And it did also compete against the Focus 01. Which in turn never competed against the C4.

In DR1 the 2000s Leaderboards were lead by the C4 and Focus 2 mostly, not equally shared with the 01's. Which indicates it's slightly unequal competitiveness. Do we want that again for DR2?

[teknoid85 444]

1 hour ago, tbtstt said:

As infuriating as it would be, it does give CM a way around the problem... 

...I would like to see the Prodrive designation used, but as that has a direct connection to the WRC, I doubt they'd do that. 

"Impreza Rally 1997" or something like that would be an easy way out. 

If we are to get more early WRCars (which seems a reasonable guess), then I think splitting 2000cc is the logical choice.

agree,  early 2000cc  and late 2000cc

[AyrtJ97 98]

54 minutes ago, SkyRex said:

The problem is competitiveness.

The class system is not just to list the cars in a book, but to drive them against each other. And when u look at it this way, the mentioned Impreza never competed against the C4, the Fabia or the Focus 2. With them coming out much later it's also arguable they are faster.

The Evo VI is the best example of this, afaik it is much more competitive in Group A than the other three, if for sequential transmission alone. BUT it did compete in Group A, so it is reasonable to class it there. It did also compete against this Subaru. And it did also compete against the Focus 01. Which in turn never competed against the C4.

In DR1 the 2000s Leaderboards were lead by the C4 and Focus 2 mostly, not equally shared with the 01's. Which indicates it's slightly unequal competitiveness. Do we want that again for DR2?

I agree with you in that on a game you should try and maintain some degree of competitiveness (still, I would prefer sticking to the real class a cars is/was homologated in) But then again, the Fabia never competed against the C4, Mk2 Focus nor the '08 Impreza, and is way older (in terms of technology) compared to the affored mentioned, as it is a 2003 car, still, it is competing on the same class.

Also, the Evo VI didn't compete against the other Gr. A cars present in-game, and it have the advantage of the sequential gearbox, still, it's present under the Gr. A class, because, as you say, it competed as a Gr. A... Well, the S5 Impreza competed as a WRC, but it didn't compete against the '01 WRC cars neither.

That's why I don't like CM system, you have a 240Z and a Stratos competing against an M3 and a Sierra (sorry if I'm being repetitive, but it kills the inmersion for me) because of competitiveness reasons, but you have the Fabia competing against the C4, or the Evo VI against the Delta. So I think it wouldn't be crazy putting the S5 on the Up to 2000cc class. But well, I think splitting the class up to Early and Late Up to 2000cc, as @teknoid85 mentioned, could be a logical decission (and the same could be applied to the Gr. A class if more cars were to be added).

[Riggs 1,668]

It's gotta be a new class with the upcoming 2001's and making the Evo VI either a multiclass or simply move it there. A class named "1999-2001" would be awesome and would include all the favourite rally cars, including the Xsara 2001 which is already a WRC spec with the facelift. 😄 

In such class these cars are eligible and have competed against each other (years represent the latest model and the latest year the manufacturer took part in WRC):

• 2001 Peugeot 206 WRC
• 2001 Citroen Xsara T4 WRC
• 2001 Ford Focus Mk1 WRC
• 1999/2000 Subaru Impreza WRC
• 2001 Subaru Impreza WRC
• 2001 Skoda Octavia WRC
• 2000 SEAT Cordoba Evo 2 WRC
• 2001 Hyundai Accent WRC
• 1999/2001 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI
• 1999 Toyota Corolla WRC
• 2001 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII (don't mind this one xD, laid Mitsubishi onto failure)

So yeah, this class definitely needs to exist, as it's very balanced and I'm sure this will turn into the main class of the game once it's brought. There's nothing better, not even Group B had this much variety and balancing. If you think the name "1999-2001" isn't enough, just call it Gold then.

Putting all of these in an unique 2000cc class will make that class unbalanced and pointless, with a huge year and performance gap in-between vehicles.

[AyrtJ97 98]

4 hours ago, Riggs said:

It's gotta be a new class with the upcoming 2001's and making the Evo VI either a multiclass or simply move it there. A class named "1999-2001" would be awesome and would include all the favourite rally cars, including the Xsara 2001 which is already a WRC spec with the facelift. 😄 

In such class these cars are eligible and have competed against each other (years represent the latest model and the latest year the manufacturer took part in WRC):

• 2001 Peugeot 206 WRC
• 2001 Citroen Xsara T4 WRC
• 2001 Ford Focus Mk1 WRC
• 1999/2000 Subaru Impreza WRC
• 2001 Subaru Impreza WRC
• 2001 Skoda Octavia WRC
• 2000 SEAT Cordoba Evo 2 WRC
• 2001 Hyundai Accent WRC
• 1999/2001 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI
• 1999 Toyota Corolla WRC
• 2001 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII (don't mind this one xD, laid Mitsubishi onto failure)

So yeah, this class definitely needs to exist, as it's very balanced and I'm sure this will turn into the main class of the game once it's brought. There's nothing better, not even Group B had this much variety and balancing. If you think the name "1999-2001" isn't enough, just call it Gold then.

Putting all of these in an unique 2000cc class will make that class unbalanced and pointless, with a huge year and performance gap in-between vehicles.

If all those cars were to make its way into the game, then yes, it would be Gold 😅

But I think such a class should be expanded to 2003... Let's be honest, the Fabia is lacking against the other 3 WRC already ingame.

[RodgerDavies 933]

6 hours ago, Riggs said:

A class named "1999-2001" would be awesome... If you think the name "1999-2001" isn't enough, just call it Gold then.

 

M1 = <2005

M2 = >2004

Sorted

 

Fully agree with you about the classes.

 

If it were up to me, I'd also (re)move the Lancer from Group A and add the Sierra and M3 (and the Golf and 205).

[Riggs 1,668]

The reason I limited it down to 2001 is due to the fact that was the last year where we had so many manufacturers; the 2003+ Xsara was a level ahead of the rest, Peugeot 307cc was born, Mitsubishi ceased to exist, and the Focus had a massive aero change. Things started going downhill after 2003.

[ianism 1,316]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:41 PM, AyrtJ97 said:

I agree with you in that on a game you should try and maintain some degree of competitiveness (still, I would prefer sticking to the real class a cars is/was homologated in) But then again, the Fabia never competed against the C4, Mk2 Focus nor the '08 Impreza, and is way older (in terms of technology) compared to the affored mentioned as it is a 2003 car, still, it is competing on the same class.

small correction: the word is aforementioned. and a noun needs to follow it, otherwise it's unclear what things you're talking about. 

so it'd be the aforementioned ones in this case 🙂

as for the topic, I think that having a new class is good but unrealistic at this point in the game's development.

[Riggs 1,668]

7 hours ago, ianism said:

small correction: the word is aforementioned. and a noun needs to follow it, otherwise it's unclear what things you're talking about. 

so it'd be the aforementioned ones in this case 🙂

as for the topic, I think that having a new class is good but unrealistic at this point in the game's development.

Wether it happens or not, if the same features from the DR1 League system transit to DR2.0 we'll be able to limit vehicles by individual cars instead of classes. That will serve as one alternative solution.

[KryspaPL 22]

For me it should look like this by the way: Lancia is too strong for Group A Subaru 95 for example, not in all moments exactly but because of the power. There should be classes like Group A 80s, Group A 90s and put there the Impreza WRC 97/98 into the group A 90's with Lancer Evo VI, and WRC cars like Fabia, Citroen etc. Should be for example, Modern 2000, Modern 2005, Modern 2007/2010 etc. All depending on the cars the year and the performance to make it more equal. Now Fabia 2005 is amazing, still fast changing gears good for the corners and equal on 6th gear, very smart and that makes for it easier to catch on the corners the rest of the cars but Subaru 2008, Citroen 2010, Focus 2007 are just too strong with the acceleration for it like Lancia for Subaru 95. I feel bad when i'm driving my favourite Colin McRae cars and then someone goes with the Lancia and just win it... not equal and not fair, also that's no respect in my opinion for these fantastic cars and legends. Subaru is not bad, it's just another year/another driving style regulations/etc. that's why it lose. That's why the car class should be more precise, and we need it if not in DiRT Rally 2.0 then for sure in the future games! 🙂

[KryspaPL 22]

Of course i know it's not easy to make it because we don't have for example like 2x 2005 WRC cars so they needed to mix it to not only have 1 car in the leaderboard and career mode but if CM would add in the future more cars from the same year then they could make also a single and more precised class.

[SkyRex 417]

7 hours ago, Riggs said:

Wether it happens or not, if the same features from the DR1 League system transit to DR2.0 we'll be able to limit vehicles by individual cars instead of classes. That will serve as one alternative solution.

I am counting on this anyway, would be really disapointing otherwise.

But I also like to drive the community events from time to time. And if I can enter with a millenial car in it's class I would like to be competitive and not at a disadvantage to the cars that are 10 years younger

[chukonu 476]

Just continue the H1/H2/H3 trend with Group A 1/A 2, 2000cc 1/2000cc 2

[Riggs 1,668]

15 hours ago, SkyRex said:

I am counting on this anyway, would be really disapointing otherwise.

But I also like to drive the community events from time to time. And if I can enter with a millenial car in it's class I would like to be competitive and not at a disadvantage to the cars that are 10 years younger

Totally agree.

[tbtstt 2,387]

17 hours ago, chukonu said:

Just continue the H1/H2/H3 trend with Group A 1/A 2, 2000cc 1/2000cc 2

2000cc 1/2000cc 2 is an excellent call. That way there is hard classification based on car manufacture date.

[AyrtJ97 98]

On 5/13/2019 at 3:07 AM, ianism said:

small correction: the word is aforementioned. and a noun needs to follow it, otherwise it's unclear what things you're talking about. 

so it'd be the aforementioned ones in this case 🙂

as for the topic, I think that having a new class is good but unrealistic at this point in the game's development.

Whoops, sorry about that. English is not my first language, so I usually make this kind of mistakes. Sorry again.

[ianism 1,316]

6 minutes ago, AyrtJ97 said:

Whoops, sorry about that. English is not my first language, so I usually make this kind of mistakes. Sorry again.

you have nothing to apologize for! just here to help 🙂