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remember vettel fought webber for his first title with red bull and after he beat him webber was never going to get a championship, only time will tell but I think the same will happen with rosberg. tbh prawn I only remember them dominating 1 season and that season was boring, the 3 others were well fought over and exciting to watch well until the fia messed about with the tyres which clearly advantaged red bull. unless you were a rosberg or Hamilton fan last season was dull and boring, although monaco and spa spiced it up a bit. the highlight of the season for me was the emergence of Danny Ricciardo and his whole attitude was a breath of fresh air into the sport. and I still think hungary was the best race last year, because it was a battle and in my opinion it only turned into a battle because lewis stood his ground and refused to let rosberg past and well done to him for doing that, similar to what happened in sepang between webber/vettel. Hamilton wanted it more, just like vettel did. though I remember him getting berated from everyone for doing it. cant remember anyone saying Hamilton was in the wrong though.


in 2010 I had no idea red bull would win, at first I thought Hamilton would win as he was leading up to Monza, then webber took the lead I thought it could be him, then Alonso at korea took the lead but vettel won it, I never saw that coming! 2013 was pretty boring I wont disagree, we knew vettel would win from early on and that's not good, it made the season boring. but to replace it with 1 team being even more dominant doesn't make it better in my opinion. im sure you will disagree as according to you at least there was 2 people fighting for it. 2010 or 2007 is ideally what you want to happen, 3-4 drivers all fighting for the championship at the last race with 2-3 different teams involved, any kind of competition to Mercedes would be welcome and improve the show for us spectators. But I will say this, I think Mercedes will get pole and win every race this year. the only reason they didn't last year was because of reliability and the drivers own mistakes and im sure it will be drummed into both drivers not to make those same mistakes again and Mercedes will be uber reliable this year.


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Too much to reply to right now, but I will say that the more drivers fighting for the WDC the better. My point is that I hated Vettel walking away with it in 2011 and 2013 because there was no competition, but at least with Mercedes dominance we still have 2 drivers fighting and not just 1.

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fair enough we are all entitled to a point of view. so if Hamilton dominates this season like Vettel did in 2011 you'd complain? be honest lol

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fair enough we are all entitled to a point of view. so if Hamilton dominates this season like Vettel did in 2011 you'd complain? be honest lol
Well no, because I like Hamilton :p However if Rosberg does, then I may not be so happy ;) I could deal with that though, because it's only one season, it's when it's over an extended period that it becomes tedious for me!

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right so its ok for one and not another. I thought as much.
Well, obviously. Isn't it natural to enjoy your favourite driver winning and dislike it when another driver is winning?

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Vettel had the best car and no real competition for 2 of his championships. With one he got lucky that Ferrari messed up, and the other he really should have beaten Alonso more easily considering the gulf between their 2 cars. 
Not to throw gasoline on the fire, but I still don't understand this reasoning. It was one race in which Ferrari screwed up, which happened to be the last one. If it happened at the start of the season it would never be mentioned. A title is determined by the full season, and over the whole season Vettel had a lot worse luck than Alonso in 2010. 

And as a sidenote and unpopular opinion, once the F1 circus arrived at Catalunya the F2012 was the most competitive Ferrari in years. Maybe not so much in qualifying, but it was a strong race car. Proven by the fact Massa amassed the most points of anyone in the second half of the season, Vettel aside. Plus it took Ferrari's highest WCC finish in the past 6 years. 

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@SamuelTrautman You asked me to be honest ;) You complain when Hamilton wins, I'll complain when Vettel wins, that's the way it works right?

@Vettelfan The critical race that decided the championship. Need more be said? 
And the Ferrari may have been a strong race car during the start of 2012, but it was generally regarded as the 3rd or 4th best car come the end of the season. Both Red Bull and McLaren were easily faster by the end, the reason Ferrari stayed in contention is because Alonso drove brilliantly. As for Massa gaining more points than anyone bar Vettel, which part of your arse did you pull that fact from?

Massa from Hungary onwards: 87 (no retirements)
Alonso from Hungary onwards: 124 (with 2 retirements)
Raikkonen from Hungary onwards: 109 (no retirements)
Hamilton from Hungary onwards: 98 (with 4 retirements)
Button from Hungary onwards: 120 (with 2 retirements)

The only driver who finished ahead of Massa in 2012 that Massa outscored in the second half of the season was Webber, who had 2 retirements.

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@revolvingprawn when do I complain when Hamilton wins? I have never posted a complaint in here when Hamilton wins. its not worth the grief you get in here about bad mouthing the golden boy that is Hamilton. this was about the constructors dominance but yet again its turned into Hamilton vrs Vettel.

put Maldonado in the same car as both of them and he'd spank them both, see I can make up stuff too :-) lol


and I forgot to mention, just checked Bahrain and I was right, 2 secs sometimes verging on 3 secs a lap faster than anyone else and we know that was the full pace cos the team came out and said Hamilton had used the highest engine setting which rosberg didn't use as they were both told not to use it. 2-3 seconds a lap is a joke. and you say the racing is good between Hamilton and rosberg, well Hamilton overtaking him time and again and rosberg not being able to overtake him aint all that good, the only reason rosberg was in it til the last race was down to reliability not because of how good rosberg is. i'd put him in the same class as webber, will win a few races but whilst Hamilton is there he aint gonna win a wdc. just like webber couldn't beat vettel, hell maybe im wrong but that's the way I see it.

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@revolvingprawn when do I complain when Hamilton wins? I have never posted a complaint in here when Hamilton wins. its not worth the grief you get in here about bad mouthing the golden boy that is Hamilton. this was about the constructors dominance but yet again its turned into Hamilton vrs Vettel.

put Maldonado in the same car as both of them and he'd spank them both, see I can make up stuff too :-) lol

Complaining about Mercedes dominance is as good as complaining about Hamilton winning ;) Red Bull dominated for 4 years, you were happy. They suck for 1 year and you and numerous other people complain that Merc are dominating. All I say, and to quote your 'golden boy' is "tough luck" :p
You know what the awesome thing about this forum is? There's actually Hamilton fans here. You go onto any of the comment sections and it's just filled with critical comments of him, so it's a nice change here.

Put Paul di Resta in Vettel's 4 WDC winning Red Bull's and we'd have a 4x champion Scotsman. So far that's the only thing I've made up.

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wow you really don't get it do you. I support Williams, why don't you read my full comments. I don't support red bull or vettel. and when did I say I was happy at red bull dominating, this all came from a post about me saying I was surprised nobody was giving the bulls a chance and hoped they would challenge Mercedes domination, and I said that as they were the only other team to win a race last season not because im a fan of red bull, so logically I assumed they would have the best chance of challenging Mercedes. and they hardly "sucked" last year as they were the only other team to get a win.


well you made up those comments about me complaining about Hamilton when I never and now your making up things about me being happy with a rival team to my favoured one winning. really?

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So if you support Williams, then what about those posts you've made about being happy Vettel won in the past?

And I do read your full posts, I just don't wanna write an essay in response so I choose the parts that stand out most and reply to those.

I suppose really I'm just annoyed that people are saying Mercedes dominating is boring, when for me 4 years of Red Bull winning was boring but last season was finally interesting again, even if only 3 drivers won races. It was good to finally see a different team out front, and good to not see that finger once.

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@Vettelfan The critical race that decided the championship. Need more be said? 
And the Ferrari may have been a strong race car during the start of 2012, but it was generally regarded as the 3rd or 4th best car come the end of the season. Both Red Bull and McLaren were easily faster by the end, the reason Ferrari stayed in contention is because Alonso drove brilliantly. As for Massa gaining more points than anyone bar Vettel, which part of your arse did you pull that fact from?

Massa from Hungary onwards: 87 (no retirements)
Alonso from Hungary onwards: 124 (with 2 retirements)
Raikkonen from Hungary onwards: 109 (no retirements)
Hamilton from Hungary onwards: 98 (with 4 retirements)
Button from Hungary onwards: 120 (with 2 retirements)

The only driver who finished ahead of Massa in 2012 that Massa outscored in the second half of the season was Webber, who had 2 retirements.
Every result of every race decides the world championship. Not just the last one. Not saying Ferrari didn't cock up but Abu Dhabi seems to be the easy blame for Alonso fans when discussing the 2010 championship. If Ferrari had made that cockup earlier during the season it would be barely mentioned. It's not like it was an easy decision to make either. 

My bad on the Massa stat. I read it somewhere a while ago (by a while I mean like 2 years ago, after the season had just finished). Clearly wasn't a reliable source. 

Still, a totally devoid of confidence Massa was still reasonably strong in the second half of the season. Measure it from when they came back from after the summer break in Spa, and he only scored 17 points fewer than Alonso till the end of the season. 

But as I said, I didn't want to throw gasoline on the fire. So I'll end this debate (much of which has been covered on numerous occasions) early by saying I respect your opinion but I'll respectfully disagree. 

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The difference is that Mercedes' domination can actually be plural as it was both cars actually fighting it out, Red Bull only had Vettel fighting over whether he should slow down or not. 


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So now testing is over, what order would you place the teams in in terms of competitiveness? Obviously we don't know about fuel loads and there could be some surprises come Australia, but how would you order them?

1) Mercedes
2) Williams
3) Ferrari
4) Red Bull
5) Force India
6) Lotus
7) Sauber
8) Toro Rosso
9) McLaren

Mercedes are obviously going to still be the team to beat and I think Williams should be a solid 2nd place, but behind them it seems like it could be very close between Ferrari and Red Bull. Behind them though it seems even more exciting because I literally have no idea what order Force India, Lotus, Sauber or Toro Rosso will be in! The mid to rear of the pack this year is so tight. Unfortunately I have to put McLaren last due to their lack of testing and pace. When Manor hopefully turn up in Melbourne I think they could possibly be fighting McLaren at this rate, but who knows.
Just thought I'd say mine;

1) Mercedes - Obviously.
2) Williams - A little closer, but still not close enough to challenge every race, just some
3) Red Bull - Very close between 2nd/3rd/4th
4)  Ferrari - Huge gains from last year, competin very closely with Williams and RBR
5) Lotus - A little way back from Ferrari
6) Force India - Close to Lotus and 7th
7) McLaren - Well, the new engine will prove to be a challenge 
8) Toro Rosso - Bog standard season for them, just getting into the points at times
9) Sauber - but better than last year
10) Manor - Obviously. 

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Vettel had the best car and no real competition for 2 of his championships. With one he got lucky that Ferrari messed up, and the other he really should have beaten Alonso more easily considering the gulf between their 2 cars. 

Mercedes winning maybe irks you, but at least we aren't haven't Red Bull winning for the 5th or 6th time. And yes they may be teammates, but at least with Rosberg and Hamilton we have a 2 way fight and not just 1 driver running away with it, Hamilton had to fight for it, Vettel didn't for half of his. 

And why bother watching when we know Mercedes will win? Glad you now know how a lot of people felt during the Red Bull dominance. I'll be watching because who knows who'll win out of Hamilton and Rosberg? And because it's a sport that brings out emotions for me, be it frustration and annoyance or joy and happiness.
This simply isn't true. I've said it one thousand times before, he lost 3 race wins due to issues.

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So if you support Williams, then what about those posts you've made about being happy Vettel won in the past?

And I do read your full posts, I just don't wanna write an essay in response so I choose the parts that stand out most and reply to those.

I suppose really I'm just annoyed that people are saying Mercedes dominating is boring, when for me 4 years of Red Bull winning was boring but last season was finally interesting again, even if only 3 drivers won races. It was good to finally see a different team out front, and good to not see that finger once.
It did get old last season for me. But then so did 2013, it was great to see Vettel win the title, sure. But the second half was far less interesting than 2010. 2010 was awesome because it was so close, no one guy dominated and it was a 5 way battle until like Korea. 

2014 did get boring in terms of who would win, but not as boring as times as when Vettel won every race. Although it was still boring, especially when one of them retired. The rest of the action was great though, 3rd down was really good for a lot of the season.

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AMS97KRR said:
Vettel had the best car and no real competition for 2 of his championships. With one he got lucky that Ferrari messed up, and the other he really should have beaten Alonso more easily considering the gulf between their 2 cars. 

Mercedes winning maybe irks you, but at least we aren't haven't Red Bull winning for the 5th or 6th time. And yes they may be teammates, but at least with Rosberg and Hamilton we have a 2 way fight and not just 1 driver running away with it, Hamilton had to fight for it, Vettel didn't for half of his. 

And why bother watching when we know Mercedes will win? Glad you now know how a lot of people felt during the Red Bull dominance. I'll be watching because who knows who'll win out of Hamilton and Rosberg? And because it's a sport that brings out emotions for me, be it frustration and annoyance or joy and happiness.
This simply isn't true. I've said it one thousand times before, he lost 3 race wins due to issues.
As true as this is you could say this with all the championship contenders in 2010 and 2012. Vettel lost many points in 2010 sure, Hamilton lost points at Monza, Singapore, Spain and Hungary. Alonso lost points at Malaysia, Monaco, Silverstone, Valencia and Abu Dhabi. Button and Webber also lost points during the season through no fault of their own.

Thing is, it's all irrelevant. All ifs and buts that makes no difference now because what happened happened and that's racing.

Think the main point that's being made here though is that Mercedes dominating is not as bad as Vettel's 2011 and 2013 seasons of dominance (not taking anything away from Seb, he drove brilliantly especially in those two years) because at least Mercedes let their drivers compete and there was still an uncertainty over who would win in the end. If Ricciardo in 2014 had been in the Red Bull in 2011 and 2013 there probably wouldn't be any of these discussions anyway.

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red bull didn't let webber race vettel? eh lol ur all mad. really this is the cliquest lil group of fanboys I have ever seen.
2010 Webber was in for a chance to take the championship but Vettel was too good for him, but they were still racing each other. And 2013 Vettel decided to race Webber in a particular race against team orders.

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