New ffb impressions

[richie 522]

So, first impression: Not sure if i like it. Had to tone it down as I had the suspension FFB set to 135 before. I'm still testing and trying different settings but you can clearly feel that it's fake. It's just constant noise and gives absolutely no information about the actual surface detail, by definition it's not (force)feedback from neither suspension or road nor physics. 

 Christina said that if you want the FFB to feel like before we should just set suspension to 0 but it's not the same as you don't even feel the cattle grids anymore. I'll have to mess a bit more with settings especially because that noise now 'drowns' the SAT. 

[FLAW3D 477]

15 minutes ago, richie said:

So, first impression: Not sure if i like it. Had to tone it down as I had the suspension FFB set to 135 before. I'm still testing and trying different settings but you can clearly feel that it's fake. It's just constant noise and gives absolutely no information about the actual surface detail, by definition it's not (force)feedback from neither suspension or road nor physics. 

 

Oh Jeez 😭

[lilfurbal 77]

20 minutes ago, richie said:

So, first impression: Not sure if i like it. Had to tone it down as I had the suspension FFB set to 135 before. I'm still testing and trying different settings but you can clearly feel that it's fake. It's just constant noise and gives absolutely no information about the actual surface detail, by definition it's not (force)feedback from neither suspension or road nor physics. 

 Christina said that if you want the FFB to feel like before we should just set suspension to 0 but it's not the same as you don't even feel the cattle grids anymore. I'll have to mess a bit more with settings especially because that noise now 'drowns' the SAT. 

 

 

Constant road noise is information about the surface detail.  That is what it is, simulating what the surface is, creating greater immersion and also so you can easily tell the difference between gravel and tarmac through feel and not just by what you see.  And it does exactly that, even though the tarmac feel leaves something to be desired, you can more effectively tell them apart now though.  And I love the increased immersion.  It accomplishes exactly what it sets out to do.  🙂

 

 

[richie 522]

3 minutes ago, lilfurbal said:

 

 

Constant road noise is information about the surface detail.  That is what it is, simulating what the surface is, creating greater immersion and also so you can easily tell the difference between gravel and tarmac through feel and not just by what you see.  And it does exactly that, even though the tarmac feel leaves something to be desired, you can more effectively tell them apart now though.  And I love the increased immersion.  It accomplishes exactly what it sets out to do.  🙂

 

 

Fake noise is no information, it's just noise. It's the same as fake news, there's no gain in information whatsoever. If my wheel just rumbles constantly no matter if there are more stones or just heavy gravel, the information is useless, at least to me. If you're happy, that's fine. Fortunately there's going to be more changes because I can't even get the old FFB feel atm. 

[SRD_SimVansevenant 863]

1 hour ago, FLAW3D said:

Some cars are devoid of feel through the wheel like your car but your using your cars lack of feel as gospel when loads of folk are telling you cars they drive have feedback through their wheels on tarmac. 

 

On smooth tarmac like Spain there shouldn't be a lot of feedback coming through the wheel from a car. Comparing it to titles like PC2 or AC is unfair because a rally car does not give you the same level of feedback as a race car. There is a big difference between those.

But you know what, let's discuss this topic again in a week or so. The Baumholder stages, which will be released next Tuesday, consist of very abrasive tarmac. That should result in a lot more feedback through the steering wheel.

[FLAW3D 477]

7 minutes ago, SimVansevenant said:

On smooth tarmac like Spain there shouldn't be a lot of feedback coming through the wheel from a car. Comparing it to titles like PC2 or AC is unfair because a rally car does not give you the same level of feedback as a race car. There is a big difference between those.

But you know what, let's discuss this topic again in a week or so. The Baumholder stages, which will be released next Tuesday, consist of very abrasive tarmac. That should result in a lot more feedback through the steering wheel.

So the feeling is dialed out of Rally cars then? If thats so would the tarmac track next week make that much of a difference? 

[chukonu 476]

Some people will never be happy. Surface detail doesn't feel like 'fake noise' at all. @richie turn down your settings if it rumbles or go back to default. On my T300RS it doesn't rumble constantly at all.

[GregPit81 63]

For me that could be the final touch: 

when the wheel locks up, when you brake, the steering wheel becomes softer on the asphalt and becomes softer with vibration on the gravel.
During acceleration, as in the beginning (gravel and asphalt) and the re-acceleration at the end of the turn on the gravel, additional vibrations.
when shifting, an impulse could be felt

[Murikka 251]

90% of vibrations I can feel on my own car when driving on smooth asphalt is from engine and drivetrain, but I drive stupidly loud v8 with semi lopey cam, so yeah, it causes quite lot vibrations. 

On older rally cars (at least) you should feel small engine vibration on steering wheel, which is totally absent atm. But otherwise I really like the new ffb. 

[SteelCosmonaut 3]

3 hours ago, tbtstt said:

Tarmac is a big part of rally, so I would personally rather see them persevere with it. 

Monte Carlo for example as it is always the Season opener for the WRC season.

[Makromatic 17]

Quote

So, first impression: Not sure if i like it. Had to tone it down as I had the suspension FFB set to 135 before. I'm still testing and trying different settings but you can clearly feel that it's fake. It's just constant noise and gives absolutely no information about the actual surface detail, by definition it's not (force)feedback from neither suspension or road nor physics. 

yes, that's how i feel about it too. And i think the main problem with the whole ffb is that most parts of the stages have very flat surfaces, that's why we don't feel much on our wheels. (i already mentioned that in another thread). Sadly this is Dirt Rally 2.0, i really expected more. 

[SteelCosmonaut 3]

 

3 hours ago, SimVansevenant said:

On smooth tarmac like Spain there shouldn't be a lot of feedback coming through the wheel from a car. Comparing it to titles like PC2 or AC is unfair because a rally car does not give you the same level of feedback as a race car. There is a big difference between those.

But you know what, let's discuss this topic again in a week or so. The Baumholder stages, which will be released next Tuesday, consist of very abrasive tarmac. That should result in a lot more feedback through the steering wheel.

Hard to say about germany since France RX has smooth and rough tarmac with basically no difference in feel.  At least with my wheel.  Rally is racing btw, and while your not wrong about the feedback, your also not exactly right.  Circuit racing cars are designed around smooth tarmac, rally racing cars are designed around every surface, so while a circuit car may be more detailed with feedback on tarmac, a rally car needs to also navigate at any given time sometimes 2-3, maybe more different combinations of racing surface, with the fact that circuits are maintained regularly and rally is on public roads being a big factor towards feedback.

[Rallystu2 715]

7 hours ago, nasoduko said:

you mean the surface they have create ,cause if you tell me that nothing comes in tarmac from the suspension in the reality ,i think you are living on an imaginary world ,and on a country the foreign roads are like highways 

Mate, what are you on about? 

[richie 522]

8 minutes ago, Makromatic said:

yes, that's how i feel about it too. And i think the main problem with the whole ffb is that most parts of the stages have very flat surfaces, that's why we don't feel much on our wheels. (i already mentioned that in another thread). Sadly this is Dirt Rally 2.0, i really expected more. 

Believe it or not, I found the FFB quite ok. Ramping up the suspension setting helped to get more feel through the suspension, plus the SAT gave you really nice feedback too. 

I wrote the comment above after having tried Australia, where you can feel the surface more than in any location. I've set suspension to 40 now and it's okay(ish). Still trying different settings. The gripe I have this time is that I can't get the old feel back. Setting suspension to 0 now feels lighter, cattle grids are completely 'muted'. 

[Makromatic 17]

Hi Richie, i also think the game is okay and it's quite fun to play. The thing is i compare it too much with DR1 where in my opinion the physics and the ffb and the stage design harmonized better. But i'm slowly getting used to it. Cheers!

[richie 522]

It's not only fun, it's superior to DR1 on many levels. I think I can find some okay settings. Looking forward to seeing how they're going to develop the FFB further as it seems the last word has not been spoken yet. 

[cafe5150 245]

There's nothing wrong with FFB on controller, never has been.

[Pistro 128]

I think those of you arguing about whether you can or can't feel road surface vibrations through a steering wheel are missing the most important fact: it depends on so many factors that it doesn't make much sense to discuss it, unless you're comparing two versions of the same car, on the same road. Yes, in my road car I can feel all sorts of vibrations, from engine to road surface vibrations, but I have 0 idea about how specific cars from this game would behave on specific roads. On one hand you have modern rally cars, which have relatively strong power steering, so it's entirely possible that you can't feel any surface vibrations in them, and on the other hand you have some older cars, which probably didn't even have power steering, so they would shake your teeth out with vibrations.

My point is: each car has it's specific behaviour and it would be extremely resource intensive to make it entirely realistic. The effect they added now is good enough, for increased immersion. It's not essential for controling a car near the grip limit though, and currently there are at least two such essential effects missing. You can't feel wheels locking under braking and you can't feel the car understeering. Imho, those should be the next areas targeted for improvement.

[MongoJon [VR] 33]

I like it. Not perfect, but way better than before 🙂

[pyide 53]

1 hour ago, cafe5150 said:

There's nothing wrong with FFB on controller, never has been.

Not wrong but severely lacking the trigger vibration feedback of the Forza and Codemaster's own F1 games on PC.

[tea3k 32]

I can't feel track degradation.  This take that long time to repair FFB because track degradation it's only texture not the real bumping track.  Next time before Tnx codemasters for fix something first check changes 

[lilfurbal 77]

Finally was able to patch up the game and finally see these ffb changes.  Or feel them rather.  I can say at this point the feel is more exciting than dr1.  Australia feels as rough as it looks, New Zealand feels rather soft, also how it looks.  It's great, they did a good job in these aspects.  Though should they continue to refine it more I would like the tarmac to feel like tarmac.  As mentioned already, it feels like nothing, and this made even more apparent in Australia with the changes to tarmac, wheel literally stops all feeling, feels unnatural.  Not that tarmac felt like anything in dr1 either, but it certainly feels like something in the f1 games.  Would make Spain so much more interesting if it actually felt like pavement.  Very pleased with all the gravel effects though, very fun.  

[GazBlaster 3]

From my point of view the ffb is still just central spring effects with a bit of road noise. Yes it's improved, but still not worth this game. You have absolutely no feel what the tires do. Don't believe anybody who is telling the opposite.

DR1 showed that it's possible to deliver a solid simulation ffb (also on consoles). What went wrong?

[Makromatic 17]

after testing the new ffb some more, i must say it feels much more realistic now, very good . Some more vibration fx and i'll be happy :-)

[SquadBruce 113]

Was running my G29 on 85 last night and I genuinely couldn't tell you what the FFB was trying to tell me about the road. It was just random knocking and was so vague that it was making me put in excessive steering which was inducing understeer.

Might have to whack it down to 40 or something later and give it a go.

Also had trouble with the braking being very ineffective since the update.