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The sound of F1 cars in F1 2019 is wrong

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Hello,

As a F1 fan and F1 2017 and F1 2018 player, I am impatient for F1 2019 to come out. Something that I noted in F1 2018 compared to the previous game was the overall good sound of F1 cars, Espetially RedBull, Ferrari, Renault, even Toro Rosso was quite good in my opinion. 

Sadly, after seeing ingame footage of F1 2019 on YouTube I was surprised to hear very low pitched Renault engine sounds, Honda engines as well. The only one that sounded quite good in my opinion was the F2 car...

After the first F1 races of the 2019 championship I thought the Honda and Renault engines sounded very good, revving high on downshifts and even on acceleration, so I thought it would be quite good in the game... but it doesn't.

I don't understand, the new 2019 regulations have made it so engines can run at higher RPM, which they actually do in real life, but on the 2019 game both engines I talked about have a lower pitched sound that in the F1 2018 game !!?? I really don't understand the logic...

Don't get me wrong, the realistic aspect of the game in terms of visual is pretty good and a big improvement on F1 2018, but the sound is really worse, I tell you.. 

Is something gonna be done so that the engine sounds in the game are actually similar to those in real life? Or is it gonna stay worse than in F1 2018? 

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I’ve heard many people talk about the sound of these cars through out the years, as for 2019 I still think it is a work in progress so it’s still to early to come to a conclusion. As for the sound in previous games I think it is relative. What do we compare it to, and what sound do we want it to emulate. The sound that comes across our televisions via the official live feed, which in some cases is artificially equalized for the television viewers, or the sound of the car from the perspective of someone sitting in the stands at a Grand Prix, or lastly, the one I most want since I race in cockpit mode the sound of the engine from the perspective of the pilot with ear plugs and a crash helmet on which I’m sure is quite different though neither myself or many other people have ever experienced it. Probably the closest to that would be the sound of the SF70 on assetto corsa, it doesn’t sound great at all but it’s likely closest to what an actual driver hears, just as your road car sounds much different to a by stander as it does to you.

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The 2019 sounds better than 2018 IMHO, 2018 was dull and too "digital" / arcadeish. 2019 seems a little bit closer to the real engines but there's something missing. I also tried to fix it on my own, processing in real time the audio from the game into logic x, I have found an audio plugins chain that really puts you on board! Equalizers / filters / compression / distortion ecc.. 

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The problem is the details, the engine note itself sounds fine but exhausts, transmission etc just doesn't sound right. Especially the classic cars, no traction control sound no backfires etc. 

How come the official F1 game can't compete with an indie game when it comes to sound? Just listen to this:
 

 

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Posted (edited)

that's is how the Mercedes should sound

 

Edited by Cap10
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Posted (edited)

LFSwicked that is not the Mercedes... surely not on the f1 w10 car.

from what I heard so far from "work in progress" videos the Mercedes & Ferrari they did some improvements yet again but there are still not great as they should be.

specially low rpm and high rpm not enough definition, (engine braking), downshifts are lacking.  

Edited by Cap10

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Posted (edited)

Thx for your replies, i've been thinking about it, and hearing footage of the game again comparing it to the real car, and i think maybe the F1 2019 Renault engine doesn't sound too low pitched, but I think the issue in my opinion is that is sound kinda weak, like too narrow, it's hard to explain but maybe those videos will help. In the F1 2018 game it was apparently considered the weakest sounding engine, but I feel like it had some mecanical sound that was cool, and the F1 2019 lacks it in my opinion. 

The F1 2018 sound comparison (it's kinda funny cause it was posted before the release and it says 'work in progress' but it actually didn't change at all haha) : 

 

Hulkenberg's start at Bahrein this year (at 4min 15sec) : 

F1 2019 game footage : 

Of course I don't wanna undermine the work Codemasters developpers put in the game. I'm sure they did the best they could and I'm sure most of the engines will certainly sound good. Obviously most of the players are gonna play for the racing and not for the sound, and I'm one of them, but I think the engine sound is a cool bonus that can give some satisfaction as well. In my opinion the Renault engine sounded well in F1 2018 and now it's very different.

Also I find it very interesting that you can try to 'customize' your own sound from the original in logic x, i'll certainly try it 🙂

Edited by profxavi
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I'll add this video as well, but I think the sound was was modified/filtered because of the crappy camera microphone.

 

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5 hours ago, Cap10 said:

LFSwicked that is not the Mercedes... surely not on the f1 w10 car.

from what I heard so far from the videos they did some improvements yet again but there are still not great as they should be.

specially low rpm and high rpm not enough definition, (engine braking), downshifts are lacking.  

Yes it is, the audio is from this years Bottas pole lap...

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@issueskid

 

If this is the final audio mix, Mercedes is still missing its unique turbo whistle sound...

 

F1 2018 had a good baseline for the sound of the Mercedes engine, only thing missing back then was the unique turbo whistle sound itself, everything else for the Mercedes was pretty close to real life onboard footages.

 

Sadly F1 2019s Mercedes is off and not even close to the one we had in F1 2018 in my honest opinion, it sounds more like a Honda.

 

Hope they will fix it as soon as possible.

 

Ferrari sounds pretty neat this year and is a huge step forward, but in lower rpms the turbo whistle should be a bit more apparent imo.

 

Honda misses its unique off throttle growling sound this year, but is pretty close to real life in general.

 

Renault is a big surprise, it made a huge improvement since last year, but it's missing the high turbo whistle, or at least it is not as noticeable.

 

Undertray plank spark sound effects are too silent.

 

In cockpit mode a muffled filter would be a nice addition to replicate the sound that the drivers hear inside their helmet.

 

Offboard in spectator mode / replay / flashback the cars are too silent, but the offboard sound fidelity has been improved drastically since last year, that is a plus.

 

Still time to adjust and improve the rest, hope to hear a more lifelike representation til release.

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12 hours ago, SturmDesTodes said:

@issueskid

 

If this is the final audio mix, Mercedes is still missing its unique turbo whistle sound...

 

F1 2018 had a good baseline for the sound of the Mercedes engine, only thing missing back then was the unique turbo whistle sound itself, everything else for the Mercedes was pretty close to real life onboard footages.

 

Sadly F1 2019s Mercedes is off and not even close to the one we had in F1 2018 in my honest opinion, it sounds more like a Honda.

 

Hope they will fix it as soon as possible.

 

Ferrari sounds pretty neat this year and is a huge step forward, but in lower rpms the turbo whistle should be a bit more apparent imo.

 

Honda misses its unique off throttle growling sound this year, but is pretty close to real life in general.

 

Renault is a big surprise, it made a huge improvement since last year, but it's missing the high turbo whistle, or at least it is not as noticeable.

 

Undertray plank spark sound effects are too silent.

 

In cockpit mode a muffled filter would be a nice addition to replicate the sound that the drivers hear inside their helmet.

 

Offboard in spectator mode / replay / flashback the cars are too silent, but the offboard sound fidelity has been improved drastically since last year, that is a plus.

 

Still time to adjust and improve the rest, hope to hear a more lifelike representation til release.

Well I think you managed to find all the details that are missing in F1 2019 engine sounds xD

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But it's crazy how different the F1 2019 and F1 2018 Mercedes sound oO

 

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Posted (edited)

Curbs have 300% less grip :classic_biggrin: it doesnt look they have issues with curb grip :classic_rolleyes: here

Edited by Neomo

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@profxavi I'm not going to reply to every single issue here, especially when there's conflicting opinions. I'll give a brief overview of the bundles though.

We gain access to some teams at the pre-season test, we use the exact same spec mic that FOM use for broadcast purposes. When we record the cars we try to stay true to what they sounded like on the day. This may or may not be how they end up sounding during the season, or even at Australia. I recall forum posts last year arguing that our bundles hadn't been updated based on the sound of the cars in China in real life and that our in game bundles sounded more like Australia. :classic_mellow: Simply put we work with what assets we have access to during winter test and these are authentic. We try to do as little processing as possible to stay true to what the cars sound like naturally.

Of course we will never please everybody and as teams receive upgrades our bundles can tent to sound different to broadcast. We don't have the luxury of recording teams over and over again and we don't have the luxury of constantly patching in new bundles throughout the season. We do of course welcome feedback and we want these bundles to sound as good as you all hope they will sound. I think we do a pretty good job year after year to recreate these power units but we're always trying to improve.

To answer a specific comment. The "muffled" filter in the cockpit used to be present (sometime around F1 2015?) but we had internal feedback that the cockpit cam isn't supposed to be a "helmet cam" (which is why there's no visible visor / helmet interior on screen). As a result the general consensus was that the filter here made no sense so it was removed.

On a final note, the beta is quite an old mix so it is not fully representative of our current work. In terms of your "work in progress" comment in reference to final audio. Well "work in progress" is subject to change, we do that so if anything does change we've covered ourselves - that's better than the game releasing and the community feel cheated if something wasn't exactly like it was during the beta. Things can change but don't always change.

Hope that lot helps and at least sheds some light on our process. As always keep the feedback and constructive criticism coming 🙂
As I've mentioned in other threads we're quite active on the forums and always willing to discuss issues as long as everybody is friendly and polite.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, issueskid said:

@profxavi I'm not going to reply to every single issue here, especially when there's conflicting opinions. I'll give a brief overview of the bundles though.

We gain access to some teams at the pre-season test, we use the exact same spec mic that FOM use for broadcast purposes. When we record the cars we try to stay true to what they sounded like on the day. This may or may not be how they end up sounding during the season, or even at Australia. I recall forum posts last year arguing that our bundles hadn't been updated based on the sound of the cars in China in real life and that our in game bundles sounded more like Australia. :classic_mellow: Simply put we work with what assets we have access to during winter test and these are authentic. We try to do as little processing as possible to stay true to what the cars sound like naturally.

Of course we will never please everybody and as teams receive upgrades our bundles can tent to sound different to broadcast. We don't have the luxury of recording teams over and over again and we don't have the luxury of constantly patching in new bundles throughout the season. We do of course welcome feedback and we want these bundles to sound as good as you all hope they will sound. I think we do a pretty good job year after year to recreate these power units but we're always trying to improve.

To answer a specific comment. The "muffled" filter in the cockpit used to be present (sometime around F1 2015?) but we had internal feedback that the cockpit cam isn't supposed to be a "helmet cam" (which is why there's no visible visor / helmet interior on screen). As a result the general consensus was that the filter here made no sense so it was removed.

On a final note, the beta is quite an old mix so it is not fully representative of our current work. In terms of your "work in progress" comment in reference to final audio. Well "work in progress" is subject to change, we do that so if anything does change we've covered ourselves - that's better than the game releasing and the community feel cheated if something wasn't exactly like it was during the beta. Things can change but don't always change.

Hope that lot helps and at least sheds some light on our process. As always keep the feedback and constructive criticism coming 🙂
As I've mentioned in other threads we're quite active on the forums and always willing to discuss issues as long as everybody is friendly and polite.

Thank you so much for the reply @issueskid Much appreciated. I actually think you guys got the engine note down, it just feels like it's still missing the additional mechanical sounds, small details. I also feel like the car doesn't sound like it's reving high enough, it doesn't sound as aggressive as onboard videos or other games that have hybrid F1 cars (AMS & RSS AC)...

It would be nice to have more audio options as well. AMS, RF,AC,ACC,PCARS etc allows you to change the volume for wind, tires, transmission etc. It would be great to have these options. 

And yes, you can't please everyone, but if the game sounded like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o86SDF4ncY I believe you'll see alot of praise. 

In regards to F2, You guys got the engine note pretty much spot on! but it's completely missing the shifting backfires those car produce: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bte87Mco54U&t=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sh6G4PFPqM

But as always, you guys constantly improve year after year, it's certainly way better than previous games so keep up the good work! 

 

Edited by LFSwicked
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I would believe that the engine are probably not pushed to their full potential when doing their recording that would explain why they don't sound agressive in the highest rpm or it could be depending on ers mode selected.

but I must say that the video a saw from the renault in Bahrain is quite spot on and sounds amazing including the engine braking(off throttle) up shift and downshift, turbo whining down.

hope the rest of the engines will sound as good, from what we saw from the "work in progress" videos of the Mercedes & Ferrari don't sound as good as what they did with the Renault. I would assume it a generic sound bundle for the f1 spec car as the models where not their actual final. 

 

Edited by Cap10
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Everyone, please, try to pay more attention to what you listen. I think that this year the Codemaster Audio Team did another step forward in terms of "sound fidelty". In TV we hear a mix of two different audio sources mixed together to make that kind of "aggressive" sound (on the left channel we hear more of the engine exhaust sound, and on the right we hear the "normal" sound that we Always heard in past like in 2017). If you hear for example the Ferrari engine sound from "F1 2019 | Test Day 3 Kimi Räikkönen Onboard Lap Helmet Cam Angle" video, or the Mercedes engine sound from "Lewis Hamilton's First Lap in 2019 Mercedes F1 Car!" video that you can find on Youtube, you can clearly hear the raw sound that we hear a lot close (and better under some circumstances, not completely) in this upcoming F1 2019 game (they are trying to replicate the "raw original sound of the car, not the mix that we hear in TV, and about that they are coming close.). Obviously, you all are right about the fact that some details are still missing or are too low to be heard like some whistle sounds and so on...i hope that is a problem related to mixing and not to what the Audio Team recorded during winter tests. if so, they could add those details by editing and mixing, but it's not up to us to say how they have to work. By the way, thank you @issueskid for your Awesome work, and keep improving as possible you can :classic_smile:

Edited by CarmineRock97
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@issueskid Thanks for the reply, I think you made a lot of points clear 🙂

It's pretty understandable that you cannot go and record sound of f1 cars 20 times a year.

Apart from the sound, I think the realistic aspect of the game looks a huge improvement, on something that already looked quite good.

Do you have the right to tell in which teams you had access to install your mic and record their car? If so, which ones?

If not, I don't mind I still appreciate the fact that you replied^^

 

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@profxavi I'm not sure how specific I can be here so let's just say we've worked directly with most teams on the grid so we manage to get a lot of coverage 🙂.
We also record all teams track side.

This is why it can be quite baffling when we see comments from some people insisting we synthesis our bundles or make them out of years old power units :classic_biggrin:. I can tell you for sure that we attend recording sessions every year so the assets we use in game are 100% genuine and representative of the power units sound at the time of recording. I'd also point out that some of our sound designers work across projects and build engines for all of our games (F1, DiRT, Grid) so our engine bundle creation process is almost identical across projects.

 

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@issueskid Ok, that's pretty cool, I understand that you really have a team of people with a lot of experience around different types of racing to work on your games ^^

I have a last question, it's not about the sound of realistic aspect of the game, it's something nobody can talk about since no footage exists on it yet (i think?), did you update in any way the penalty system in ranked lobbies? like I in more than 700 races I can't recall how many times i got a penalty/warning when I was hit and didn't hit anybody, or when the person that hit me and either ruined my race or basically took me out didn't get any significant penalty, or when I manage to escape a T1 wreck and get an illegal overtake (even though I think that was improved at some point because I remember sometimes getting that and it would disappear before the end of the timer) or when backmarkers try to intentionnally ruin your lead, there's a lot of examples like that... About the backmarker thing maybe an improvement would be to just automatically ghost the racers you're gonna lap x) 

Most of the times when I do something that I think merits a penalty (regardless of me doing it intentionally or not xD ), I get it and judge it to be fair, but really sometimes is isn't fair at all and that causes a lot of displeasure...

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