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Underrated and Overrated drivers?

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Underrated: Sebastian Vettel. Let's be honest: Most experts and fans have named Alonso as being the best driver around in the last couple of years, no matter how well Seb was doing. Some people still believe he's bad at overtaking which imo is far from truth as we've seen a couple of times already. Surely, if you've got the car to dominate from the front then overtaking is pretty much impossible, but whenever he needed to get past someone, he made it stick. Plus his consistency and tyre management, at least before 2014, has been exceptionally good too.
Ask me again at the end of 2014 and I might change my mind about him being underrated, but only if he continues with this poor form. And quite frankly, as much as I would love to see Daniel outclass him, it's simply not gonna happen. Seb's one class higher than Dan imo.
Interested to see what you think now, Dan :p 

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Underrated- Kobayashi.... he reminds me of hamilton in a way, someone who knows and isn't afraid  to overtake, would love to see what he can do in a competitive car.
Overrated- sutil, should not even be there, better drivers has left the sport but he still has a seat, never out performs his cars, never does anything special, very boring driving style, you would forget he's even there.... the only time he gets mentioned is when when he crashes or get overtaken.

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mike96 said:
 

Underrated: Sebastian Vettel. Let's be honest: Most experts and fans have named Alonso as being the best driver around in the last couple of years, no matter how well Seb was doing. Some people still believe he's bad at overtaking which imo is far from truth as we've seen a couple of times already. Surely, if you've got the car to dominate from the front then overtaking is pretty much impossible, but whenever he needed to get past someone, he made it stick. Plus his consistency and tyre management, at least before 2014, has been exceptionally good too.
Ask me again at the end of 2014 and I might change my mind about him being underrated, but only if he continues with this poor form. And quite frankly, as much as I would love to see Daniel outclass him, it's simply not gonna happen. Seb's one class higher than Dan imo.
Interested to see what you think now, Dan :p 
I've only said that to jinx his season. That's my excuse. Like seriously.

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Overrated - Ayrton Senna, Perez, Kobayashi

Underrated - Vettel, Maldonado, Luca Badoer (most underrated driver ever), Prost

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APR193 said:
Overrated - Ayrton Senna, Perez, Kobayashi

Underrated - Vettel, Maldonado, Luca Badoer (most underrated driver ever), Prost
I partially agree with this, the only thing I would say is that I don't really know enough about Badoer to rate him fairly.

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't say Kobayashi is overrated as such

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In recent years:

Underrated: Button, Heidfeld, Hulkenberg, Vergne, Di Grassi, Glock

Overrated: Magnussen, Di Resta, Grosjean (only to an extent though, had a good stint late 2013 but the rest has been shaky), Kvyat (An excellent qualifier without doubt but not seen a lot in races)

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AMS97KRR said:
APR193 said:
Overrated - Ayrton Senna, Perez, Kobayashi

Underrated - Vettel, Maldonado, Luca Badoer (most underrated driver ever), Prost
I partially agree with this, the only thing I would say is that I don't really know enough about Badoer to rate him fairly.

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't say Kobayashi is overrated as such
The only part you agree with is Vettel being underrated, be honest. ;)

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Lol no. I think Prost being underrated and Senna being overrated is somewhat true. Senna was a great driver but so was Prost and I think sometimes people make Senna seem much better than he was in comparison to the other greats. Prost was very close to Senna in terms of speed, but sometimes I get the impression he is overlooked in the "greatest driver debate".

Like when people discuss the greatest driver, the 4 names you hear are Schumacher, Senna, Fangio and Clark. Not Prost, which is unfair IMO as he and Senna were very close. So for me either Prost is underrated or Senna is overrated. 

EDIT: Also, Vettel is in some ways underrated because a lot of people say he is awful and that isn't really fair. You do the job with the car you have. I don't think this season was something that Vettel was really motivated, knew his best possible result was 3rd in the WDC  tbh, he said himself he would have left if there was something faster due to the new regs. Not trying to make excuses, but still. Give him a couple of years, watch him win the WDC with Ferrari ;)


*prepares for 8+ disagree's and flak*

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AMS97KRR said:
Lol no. I think Prost being underrated and Senna being overrated is somewhat true. Senna was a great driver but so was Prost and I think sometimes people make Senna seem much better than he was in comparison to the other greats. Prost was very close to Senna in terms of speed, but sometimes I get the impression he is overlooked in the "greatest driver debate".

Like when people discuss the greatest driver, the 4 names you hear are Schumacher, Senna, Fangio and Clark. Not Prost, which is unfair IMO as he and Senna were very close. So for me either Prost is underrated or Senna is overrated. 

EDIT: Also, Vettel is in some ways underrated because a lot of people say he is awful and that isn't really fair. You do the job with the car you have. I don't think this season was something that Vettel was really motivated, knew his best possible result was 3rd in the WDC  tbh, he said himself he would have left if there was something faster due to the new regs. Not trying to make excuses, but still. Give him a couple of years, watch him win the WDC with Ferrari ;)


*prepares for 8+ disagree's and flak*
Alonso's been driving a pile of **** for the past 5 years yet he still gives his best every race. :p  I agree with the Prost/Senna point to an extent though. It's hard to give an opinion on something you never saw live though.

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Senna and Prost were pretty much as good as each other in every discipline. Except qualifying, where Senna obliterated Prost 26 poles vs 4 poles when they were teammates. That's why Senna is classed ahead, simply put. 

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I don't think Quali is really a good deciding factor as it were, Rosberg beat Hamilton this season and Hamilton has long been considered the best qualifier. Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in Quali, so 2 of the best qualifiers have been beaten this season

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AMS97KRR said:
I don't think Quali is really a good deciding factor as it were, Rosberg beat Hamilton this season and Hamilton has long been considered the best qualifier. Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in Quali, so 2 of the best qualifiers have been beaten this season
But at least Hamilton regularly beat Rosberg in the races. Could be wrong with this number, but didn't Nico only convert 3 of his poles into wins?

Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in races ;)

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AMS97KRR said:
I don't think Quali is really a good deciding factor as it were, Rosberg beat Hamilton this season and Hamilton has long been considered the best qualifier. Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in Quali, so 2 of the best qualifiers have been beaten this season
Well, when they are pretty much identical in races what other deciding factor would you use?

It's like saying Player A and Player B are almost identically skilled in football, but then Player A is much better at taking corners than the other. It's obviously not the most important factor, but if it's the only factor where one is considerably better than the other then that makes Player A better overall. 

Also just as a point, when you take out Vettel's qualifying reliability at the start of the season, and his non show in USA the score in qualifying at Red Bull was 7-7 last season when both cars were at 100%. But anyway that's a side topic for another day. 

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VetteIfan said:
AMS97KRR said:
I don't think Quali is really a good deciding factor as it were, Rosberg beat Hamilton this season and Hamilton has long been considered the best qualifier. Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in Quali, so 2 of the best qualifiers have been beaten this season
Well, when they are pretty much identical in races what other deciding factor would you use?

It's like saying Player A and Player B are almost identically skilled in football, but then Player A is much better at taking corners than the other. It's obviously not the most important factor, but if it's the only factor where one is considerably better than the other then that makes Player A better overall. 

Also just as a point, when you take out Vettel's qualifying hindrances at the start of the season, and his non show in USA the score in qualifying at Red Bull was 7-7 last season. But anyway that's a side topic to this conversation. 
Well considering in the races that they both finished, Hamilton beat Rosberg 10-4, I'd say that makes them far from identical in races. Sure Rosberg was the better qualifier by 12-7, but you don't get points in quali.

Qualifying hindrances? Is that another way of saying "He was rubbish and took ages to get used to the car"? :p They're both given equal machinery, and the quali score was 10-9 to Ricciardo. 11-3 to Ricciardo in the races they both finished.

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VetteIfan said:
AMS97KRR said:
I don't think Quali is really a good deciding factor as it were, Rosberg beat Hamilton this season and Hamilton has long been considered the best qualifier. Vettel also lost out to Ricciardo in Quali, so 2 of the best qualifiers have been beaten this season
Well, when they are pretty much identical in races what other deciding factor would you use?

It's like saying Player A and Player B are almost identically skilled in football, but then Player A is much better at taking corners than the other. It's obviously not the most important factor, but if it's the only factor where one is considerably better than the other then that makes Player A better overall. 

Also just as a point, when you take out Vettel's qualifying hindrances at the start of the season, and his non show in USA the score in qualifying at Red Bull was 7-7 last season. But anyway that's a side topic to this conversation. 
Well considering in the races that they both finished, Hamilton beat Rosberg 10-4, I'd say that makes them far from identical in races. Sure Rosberg was the better qualifier by 12-7, but you don't get points in quali.

Qualifying hindrances? Is that another way of saying "He was rubbish and took ages to get used to the car"? :p They're both given equal machinery, and the quali score was 10-9 to Ricciardo. 11-3 to Ricciardo in the races they both finished.
I was talking about the original Senna/Prost comparison. 

10-9? It was 12-7 (on paper). But Vettel had a software mapping issue in Australia, a wastegate problem in Bahrain, a gearbox problem in Spain, a power loss during his Q3 runs in Monaco and the non show in USA. Counting only when both Red Bulls ran at 100%, the score was 7-7. 

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That wasn't clear to me as AMS mentioned Hamilton and Rosberg :p 

10-9 as they were both on the grid regardless of problems, minus USA for both. Though I suppose if you don't count USA as they were thrown out then it'd be 9-8.

Source I'm using: http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/2014-f1/vettel-versus-ricciardo/

Oops, made a mistake, It was of course Abu Dhabi they were thrown out of. Meaning it'd actually be 10-8 to Ricciardo ;)

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That wasn't clear to me as AMS mentioned Hamilton and Rosberg :p 

10-9 as they were both on the grid regardless of problems, minus USA for both. Though I suppose if you don't count USA as they were thrown out then it'd be 9-8.

Source I'm using: http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/2014-f1/vettel-versus-ricciardo/

Oops, made a mistake, It was of course Abu Dhabi they were thrown out of. Meaning it'd actually be 10-8 to Ricciardo ;)
You're making this so confusing :p

That chart doesn't account for Ricciardo's ten place grid penalty in Bahrain, and the fact he out qualified Vettel in Abu Dhabi. Yes they were both thrown out, but they both still had identical cars to each other. So from that 10-9 you add 2 to Ricciardo's score and minus 2 from Vettel's. Hence, 12-7 :p

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I  don't think Senna is overrated. Sure he's remembered really well and perhaps his death contributed to that but even if he had lived I'm sure he would still be remembered as he is, as one of the best, most talented drivers ever. Better than Prost, without a doubt.

Ricciardo > Vettel


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Well I'm too young to have been watching Senna , but my Dad is a long time fan of F1 and an avid Senna fan. Watching back old tapes it seems to me like they were pretty even , but going by the way he talks about him , there was another dimension to him which you don't get by just watching back old tapes. That's the reason I don't really like judging any drivers I haven't seen race live.

PS : Schumi is better than Senna AND Prost.  :p ;)

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Underrated: Nico Hulkenberg, Jean Eric Vergne Nick Heidfeld
Overrated; Pastor Maldonado Michael Schumacher (2010-2012)
No one really rated Schumacher in his comeback years, just a lot of hype.

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