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Tyre wear scaling in qualifying needs to be removed

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19 hours ago, martbloke said:

 

In practice and qualy, is your tyre life half of what a 100% tyre life is? If the answer is yes (which I know it is) then tyre wear for you is also incorrect. You WILL start the race with more wear than what you should be starting it with.

umm no my tyres (soft) usually have 12% wear after a qualy run. Based on the total life- qualy laps its accurate for 50% races.

So your wrong in that respect.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Metzgerov said:

umm no my tyres (soft) usually have 12% wear after a qualy run. Based on the total life- qualy laps its accurate for 50% races.

So your wrong in that respect.

Try the following. Just start a 25% GP full practice. Make an outlap, fast lap and inlap and write down your tyre wear. Go back to menu. Than do the same with 50% and 100% GP. If the tyre wear is the same for all three test, than there is no issue. If the tyre wear is e.g. 6% for 100%, 12% for 50% and 24% for 25% than the tyre wear in Practice and Qualifying will be scaled, which is wrong. It is in every session an outlap, fast lap and inlap.

For the race, tyre wear scaling is ok, but not for practice and qualy.

Edited by Akkan74
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6 minutes ago, Akkan74 said:

Try the following. Just start a 25% GP full practice. Make an outlap, fast lap and inlap and write down your tyre wear. Go back to menu. Than do the same with 50% and 100% GP. If the tyre wear is the same for all three test, than there is no issue. If the tyre wear is e.g. 6% for 100%, 12% for 50% and 24% for 25% than the tyre wear in Practice and Qualifying will be scaled, which is wrong. It is in every session an outlap, fast lap and inlap.

For the race, tyre wear scaling is ok, but not for practice and qualy.

 

He doesn't even need to test it as that is exactly what happens. They scale the tyre life for these sessions and from then 1 lap = 1 lap no matter what. Here's some quick math for him (@Metzgerov):

 

Based on doing 3 laps in qualifying (1 out, 1 flying and 1 in)

 

Tyre life 100% race = 50 laps (100% life), after 3 laps = 47 laps (94% life)

50% race = tyre scaled in Qualy to 25 laps (100% life), after 3 laps = 22 laps (88% life)

25% race = tyre scaled to 13 laps (100% life), after 3 laps = 10 laps (76% life)

 

You are wearing your tyre X2 when the race is set to 50% and x4 when at 25% in QUALIFYING which is incorrect. It should only wear this much in RACE.

 

You have the issue too you just ignore to see it and accept what is given to you. If you like that then fine but the maths prove the issue is present.

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Umm that has been like that since I can remember.

 

why would they use 100% scaling in 50% or 25% races? That’s stupid and not realistic. If this is what you are complaining about then it makes zero logic. In a 25% race your tyres should wear faster in every session like in the race.

🤦‍♂️

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13 minutes ago, Metzgerov said:

Umm that has been like that since I can remember.

 

why would they use 100% scaling in 50% or 25% races? That’s stupid and not realistic. If this is what you are complaining about then it makes zero logic. In a 25% race your tyres should wear faster in every session like in the race.

🤦‍♂️

It just doesn't work for qualifying. When selecting 25%, it results in starting your race on worn tyres after doing just one flying lap (the scaling for out and in lap make it essentially 3 laps; which in 25% world means you just did half a race stint, and 30% tyre wear).

With F2 qualy you get only one set of softs (which on 25% have decent pace for only 1 lap) for a 30 minute session. You have 30 minutes to set 1 lap, because the tyre scaling renders them useless after your first attempt.

Scaling in qualy might make sense for 50% and beyond, for 25% races it simply ruins qualifying and race strategies. Also previous games actually didn't scale during qualifying for this very reason. Why they changed it now is beyond me. 

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39 minutes ago, Metzgerov said:

Umm that has been like that since I can remember.

 

why would they use 100% scaling in 50% or 25% races? That’s stupid and not realistic. If this is what you are complaining about then it makes zero logic. In a 25% race your tyres should wear faster in every session like in the race.

🤦‍♂️

🤦 I think the wording "Race length" says it all. It's a scaling of the RACE not qualy or practice 🤦

 

The whole point of scaling the wear is so race strategies are realistic in races less than 100% i.e. in a 100% 70 lap race a 2 stop strategy means pitting on lap 20 and 40. Therefore to scale this down for a 50% 35 lap race you are looking for it to pit on lap 10 and 20 with the exact same wear as what you'd see in a 100% race. ATM as you are starting with more wear at the start of a race due to incorrect scaling (if starting in the top 10), you have to pit earlier than you should making your whole race time longer and giving the advantage to those starting outside the top 10.

 

If you don't understand from people's posts and the numbers then maybe you shouldn't worry about it. Codies will understand and it's for them to fix anyways.

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9 minutes ago, martbloke said:

🤦 I think the wording "Race length" says it all. It's a scaling of the RACE not qualy or practice 🤦

 

The whole point of scaling the wear is so race strategies are realistic in races less than 100% i.e. in a 100% 70 lap race a 2 stop strategy means pitting on lap 20 and 40. Therefore to scale this down for a 50% 35 lap race you are looking for it to pit on lap 10 and 20 with the exact same wear as what you'd see in a 100% race. ATM as you are starting with more wear at the start of a race due to incorrect scaling (if starting in the top 10), you have to pit earlier than you should making your whole race time longer and giving the advantage to those starting outside the top 10.

 

If you don't understand from people's posts and the numbers then maybe you shouldn't worry about it. Codies will understand and it's for them to fix anyways.

No need to over explain. I got it a few posts back. Doesn’t change my stance. Real life F1 has the same issue with top 10 usually pitting early too because they start on used tyres so that’s realistic actually 🤦🏼‍♂️

As someone who does 50% races the scaling is realistic for this length.

An example above by some guy showed that it messes up 25% and under. I can see the issue with shorter races.

I like they way it is for 50% races and it behaves the same as 2018, 2017, 2016....

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This was already patched out of F1 2018. Still wondering, why it is ingame again.🤷‍♀️

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On 7/1/2019 at 12:49 AM, TJH said:

What astonishes me is the fact that in F1 2018 this problem has already been resolved.

How can it be that certain "features" were not taken over to f1 19?

They only copy and paste glitches not fixes

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15 hours ago, Metzgerov said:

No need to over explain. I got it a few posts back. Doesn’t change my stance. Real life F1 has the same issue with top 10 usually pitting early too because they start on used tyres so that’s realistic actually 🤦🏼‍♂️

As someone who does 50% races the scaling is realistic for this length.

An example above by some guy showed that it messes up 25% and under. I can see the issue with shorter races.

I like they way it is for 50% races and it behaves the same as 2018, 2017, 2016....

But it is not realistic for 50% races either. It is just not as significant as for 25% races, but it is still bad.

I do full qualifying and 50% races. In full qualifying, I have just as much time as the drivers in real life have, but my tyres wear twice as hard. So an out lap, fast lap en in lap in Bahrain cost me 18% of tyre life where it would normally only cost me 9% if I where to race at 100% distance.

 

Now, I start my race with around 20% wear in my 50% race, but I would have had 10% wear in a 100% race. But percentages are applied to the total race length you are using, so there lies the problem. Let's say you can do 20 laps with the soft in a 100% race. That would mean you can use them for 10 laps in a 50% race. But I have got 20% wear, so that leaves me with 6 laps before my tyres are done (cause you don't drive with tyres more than 80% wear), but at 100% they only have 10% wear on a lifespan of 20 laps, so they can use their tyres for 14 laps. Now you should see the problem.

They can go almost three times as far with their soft tyres, but they only race two times my distance.

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On 6/27/2019 at 7:28 AM, peanutt2000 said:

Isn’t tire saving during race part of F1 though?

Yes it absolutely it, the problem is the ai don’t do it (off-topic, I know).   Also I thought I saw someone mention components scaling,  I feel like this should maybe be based on practice length because if you look at the lap counts from practice IRL the drivers do 20, 30, or even 40 laps during one practice session.  If we did 20 laps each session you’d run through so many components it’s ridiculous!

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So THAT'S what's been screwing me in quali and first race stint. I hadn't even thought to check the tyre wear as I assumed (as you would) that this would just be taken care of.

Pretty big slip up there Codies.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, and thanks for all your feedback on this. From my understanding we will be looking to adjust the tyre wear to what it was in F1 2018 in a future patch.

Edit: Please note I've now also removed a number of posts that were off topic. 

Edited by Faya
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2 hours ago, Aljudifa said:

But it is not realistic for 50% races either. It is just not as significant as for 25% races, but it is still bad.

I do full qualifying and 50% races. In full qualifying, I have just as much time as the drivers in real life have, but my tyres wear twice as hard. So an out lap, fast lap en in lap in Bahrain cost me 18% of tyre life where it would normally only cost me 9% if I where to race at 100% distance.

 

Now, I start my race with around 20% wear in my 50% race, but I would have had 10% wear in a 100% race. But percentages are applied to the total race length you are using, so there lies the problem. Let's say you can do 20 laps with the soft in a 100% race. That would mean you can use them for 10 laps in a 50% race. But I have got 20% wear, so that leaves me with 6 laps before my tyres are done (cause you don't drive with tyres more than 80% wear), but at 100% they only have 10% wear on a lifespan of 20 laps, so they can use their tyres for 14 laps. Now you should see the problem.

They can go almost three times as far with their soft tyres, but they only race two times my distance.

I just raced Bah and had only 11% wear. Sounds like your driving is more of a problem than scaling. I pit in sequence with Ai t.

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:11 AM, Metzgerov said:

umm no my tyres (soft) usually have 12% wear after a qualy run. Based on the total life- qualy laps its accurate for 50% races.

So your wrong in that respect.

 

Starting the race with 12% actually seems too high, coming from one who does only 100% races now.  In the top 10 on 100% my tyres are usually aat around 4-5% wear.  So your 11-12% is actually double (even a little more than double) the wear I start with, so in your 50% races your tyres are starting more worn than they should be.  Or you really need to practice the tyre management program as that is too high.  lol

Even though I play at 100% race length, I should start the race with the same amount of wear regardless of race length.  The only difference being that in the shorter races the tyres should wear at an accelerated pace, not that they should start 2x used.  

 

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Yeah. I can agree that this is an issue. For those saying it isn't realistic, you're doing a 3 lap run on the tyres in each session. The tyre wear doesn't need to be scaled as it's already scaled correctly for what you're currently doing. This should then be adjusted to be scaled as the race is the only distance that is scaled. 

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15 hours ago, Faya said:

Hi all, and thanks for all your feedback on this. From my understanding we will be looking to adjust the tyre wear to what it was in F1 2018 in a future patch.

Edit: Please note I've now also removed a number of posts that were off topic. 

 

I didn't buy 2018, can you (or anyone else here) explain to me what the 2018 functionality was for this?

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On 7/2/2019 at 4:26 PM, Faya said:

Hi all, and thanks for all your feedback on this. From my understanding we will be looking to adjust the tyre wear to what it was in F1 2018 in a future patch.

Edit: Please note I've now also removed a number of posts that were off topic. 

Obviously will be great to have this done as currently I'm just not playing the game since career mode is all I really play for and this bug totally kills the whole experience.

I'm just curious as to exactly how this kind of thing falls through the cracks from one year to the next. Don't mean that in an antagonistic way, just genuinely curious. I can't imagine you completely redo the tyre wear model year after year and I would have thought things like scaling would be almost copied over verbatim? Oh well, probably just shows how little I know about game development.

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On 7/2/2019 at 8:38 PM, lilfurbal said:

 

Starting the race with 12% actually seems too high, coming from one who does only 100% races now.  In the top 10 on 100% my tyres are usually aat around 4-5% wear.  So your 11-12% is actually double (even a little more than double) the wear I start with, so in your 50% races your tyres are starting more worn than they should be.  Or you really need to practice the tyre management program as that is too high.  lol

Even though I play at 100% race length, I should start the race with the same amount of wear regardless of race length.  The only difference being that in the shorter races the tyres should wear at an accelerated pace, not that they should start 2x used.  

 

This.

I only do 100% as well, and my tyres were at 6-7% after qualifying at China with an almost-no-upgrades Alfa Romeo.

As you're basically doing a 100% qualifying and practice, it should be the same tyre wear during these sessions. Conversely, race fuel should still start at 110KG and be at 2X usage multiplier, but that's another can of worms altogether, and not my problem since I barely consider 50% a race as it's over so fast.

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Posted (edited)

Initially I didn't understand why this was an issue, but simple maths do kinda prove it.

 

If your softs wear out in the race at around 3% per lap on 100% and you have to get them to 60% before pitting, you can squeeze 20 laps out of them. If you then add the qualifying tyre wear (assume 6% for good measure just because it's a nice round number and you're expected to wear out your tyres more in quali), you can get 18 laps out of the tyres you start on, assuming you get into Q3 with them. That means that 9 laps with Q2 tyres on 50% should also get you to 60%, but no, it sounds like they get you to 66% right now.

This especially hurts AIs - watching ConeDodger's 50% race in Australia and comparing it to my own 100% race, the strategy changed drastically in his race with everyone other than Red Bull and Williams going very slowly on a 1-stopper, and given how much stronger the softs are than the mediums (let alone the hards) they certainly didn't change their strategy because of the length of the pit lane. In comparison, in my race everyone other than Red Bull and Williams 2-stopped with these two doing 3-stops and basically running quali pace from start to finish, which changes the dynamic of the race completely.

Edited by Coffer

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Coffer said:

Initially I didn't understand why this was an issue, but simple maths do kinda prove it.

 

If your softs wear out in the race at around 3% per lap on 100% and you have to get them to 60% before pitting, you can squeeze 20 laps out of them. If you then add the qualifying tyre wear (assume 6% for good measure just because it's a nice round number and you're expected to wear out your tyres more in quali), you can get 18 laps out of the tyres you start on, assuming you get into Q3 with them. That means that 9 laps with Q2 tyres on 50% should also get you to 60%, but no, it sounds like they get you to 66% right now.

This especially hurts AIs - watching ConeDodger's 50% race in Australia and comparing it to my own 100% race, the strategy changed drastically in his race with everyone other than Red Bull and Williams doing a 1-stopper, and that's not because of the length of the pit lane, that's for sure. In comparison, in my race everyone other than Red Bull and Williams 2-stopped with these two doing 3-stops, which is a colossal change.

Nail on the head about AI strategy. Seen it too in Aarava's French GP. He didn't qualify for Q3 and the 1st stint, he was overtaking for fun. 2nd stint when all even, he found it harder and the AI was competing well. Just so illogical how this was missed. 

Edited by martbloke

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@Faya is there any update regarding this? I didn't see it mentioned in the long-term update plan, and seeing as it is a pretty sizeable issue that is ruining the experience for many people, I would hope it will be addressed in the next patch, or at the absolute worst, the following. Please don't make us wait until December before the game functions as it should.

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Posted (edited)

First it was tyre heat assit,

Now its tyre wear assit, 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/f1-tyres-and-management/

 

Makes me wonder why Codemasters never have time to fix actual bugs, it has to be said,

F2 no Race fuel so cant practise, ah no biggie, we got assits to add :classic_rolleyes:

F1 2019 soon to be like F1 2018, only avaible offline due to refusing to update to the Forza patch, Thankyou.

Edited by BluntRS

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