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F1 2019 - Skill Rating system broken [SG]

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Hi All,

After looking at the latest data and reviewing your feedback, the team is hoping to make the following changes to the skill ranking system:

  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on the number of players in a race so that players can still earn decent points even in races with fewer people in them.
  • Introducing a skill rating bonus based on your finish position so that all players who finish in the top half will earn extra points, with more points going to the players higher up the finishing order.
  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on racing incidents so that players who have accumulated penalties will earn fewer points.
  • Reducing the penalty incurred when players quit the session before the race has started, e.g. to a flat rate of -10 points.

We are not yet sure when these changes will be make it into the game – I’m currently hoping for these to make it into patch 1.11, but I’ll update this thread when I get more info from the dev team.

 

There are also a few things that we don’t want to change, so I wanted to go through these briefly to help you understand our perspective and gauge your feelings on these:

  • No points loss following collisions. It was felt that once the race was underway, standard racing rules should be observed. If a player damages their car and is forced to retire from the race then the result should stand. If we make exceptions for this rule then we risk encouraging some players to make reckless moves without repurcussion. For players who are unfairly taken out during a race, we hope that the penalty modifiers above will mitigate the potential advantage of driving badly.
  • Ghosting of cars. Similar to above, we want to discourage potential reckless driving where people may assume that collisions will be disabled if they attempt to drive through other slower-moving vehicles. The safety rating system should help separate players who frequently collide with other vehicles from cleaner drivers.
  • Getting skill points for qualifying. As per the sport, qualifying is there to provide an advantage in the main race rather than as a means to earn points in itself.
  • More points for finishing higher than grid position. Awarding more points if finishing higher than your starting position may lead to players “sandbagging” in the qualifying session in order to earn more points in the race. As such, we intend to only evaluate players’ finishing positions.
  • Skill Rating in Unranked Sessions. As this is a competitive mode, this wouldn’t work in an environment where players could determine the parameters of the competition themselves, e.g. to choose their preferred track or opponents. As such, we aren't considering adding skill ratings into Unranked mode.
  • Lowering “Pure Gold” criteria. In light of the various changes to the balancing, this achievement should become easier to obtain. However, we still want this to represent something of a challenge for players to earn, so don’t want to lower the criteria for this one just yet.

If you have any initial feedback on these issues then please let us know!

Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Hoo said:

Hi All,

After looking at the latest data and reviewing your feedback, the team is hoping to make the following changes to the skill ranking system:

  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on the number of players in a race so that players can still earn decent points even in races with fewer people in them.
  • Introducing a skill rating bonus based on your finish position so that all players who finish in the top half will earn extra points, with more points going to the players higher up the finishing order.
  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on racing incidents so that players who have accumulated penalties will earn fewer points.
  • Reducing the penalty incurred when players quit the session before the race has started, e.g. to a flat rate of -10 points.

We are not yet sure when these changes will be make it into the game – I’m currently hoping for these to make it into patch 1.11, but I’ll update this thread when I get more info from the dev team.

 

There are also a few things that we don’t want to change, so I wanted to go through these briefly to help you understand our perspective and gauge your feelings on these:

  • No points loss following collisions. It was felt that once the race was underway, standard racing rules should be observed. If a player damages their car and is forced to retire from the race then the result should stand. If we make exceptions for this rule then we risk encouraging some players to make reckless moves without repurcussion. For players who are unfairly taken out during a race, we hope that the penalty modifiers above will mitigate the potential advantage of driving badly.
  • Ghosting of cars. Similar to above, we want to discourage potential reckless driving where people may assume that collisions will be disabled if they attempt to drive through other slower-moving vehicles. The safety rating system should help separate players who frequently collide with other vehicles from cleaner drivers.
  • Getting skill points for qualifying. As per the sport, qualifying is there to provide an advantage in the main race rather than as a means to earn points in itself.
  • More points for finishing higher than grid position. Awarding more points if finishing higher than your starting position may lead to players “sandbagging” in the qualifying session in order to earn more points in the race. As such, we intend to only evaluate players’ finishing positions.
  • Skill Rating in Unranked Sessions. As this is a competitive mode, this wouldn’t work in an environment where players could determine the parameters of the competition themselves, e.g. to choose their preferred track or opponents. As such, we aren't considering adding skill ratings into Unranked mode.
  • Lowering “Pure Gold” criteria. In light of the various changes to the balancing, this achievement should become easier to obtain. However, we still want this to represent something of a challenge for players to earn, so don’t want to lower the criteria for this one just yet.

If you have any initial feedback on these issues then please let us know!

Thanks.

Thank you for the update for your projected updates to the issues raised here. A quick couple of follow up questions;

  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on the number of players in a race so that players can still earn decent points even in races with fewer people in them. - Will this still yield decent (or at least some) points when in a lobby with just one other person?
  • I notice you are primarily talking about ways to increase the points gained, which I like all the ideas you are looking to implement, however does this mean you are not looking into decreasing the losses at the same time?

Again thank you for outlining the points that you will not be looking into changing and I for one can see the logic and reasoning behind each of them. Again though, a couple of follow up questions;

  • Ghosting of cars. - You make a good point on this, but I would like to state that the majority of the time it is not the person who has caused the incident that is sideways on the track, it is also not that person who is rounding the corner about to crash into the stopped driver. It may not even be an incident, it may be that someone has just taken a bad corner and is re-joining the track or is trying to recover (lower safety rating would not prevent this). In cases where it is an incident and someone is at fault, it is unlikely that they would receive a penalty and even if they did they would gain less points (if finishing high enough) where as the people involved in the aftermath are very likely to finish in the lower half and therefore definitely lose points.

        I would like to ask again that this be reviewed simply for cars that are on track and stationary/moving less that 20mph (trolls waiting for victims) for more than 1ms should be ghosted.

  • Lowering “Pure Gold” criteria. In light of the various changes to the balancing, this achievement should become easier to obtain. - I assume you mean the changes to the balancing you are talking about in this post and what you are looking to implement in the future. As the changes that were made to the balancing in 1.09 I believe made it more difficult to obtain. Difficult may be the wrong word but it would definitely take longer with the 1.09 system compared to the 1.08 system. As I have mentioned before and from what I have posted in this thread you can see that in the 1.09 system the losses are still much higher in comparison to the gains, and Pure Gold will take longer to achieve because both have been reduced.

        If you are not looking to lower the losses whilst increasing the gains I would honestly prefer going back to the 1.08 system.

I know you could lose more, but you could also gain a lot more too. Now-a-days, each race I play I see as gambling, it's 90% luck and 10% skill, and in gambling you need to bet big to win big. In the 1.08 system you were betting big as a loss was a big loss, but a win was a big win. As seen from my previous posts, in the 1.08 system I was better off overall.

 

Thank you again for the update and look forward to hearing your responses to my follow ups when you get chance.

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Hi @Hoo

Thanks for the update, I have a couple of questions about the new changes to be implemented.

8 hours ago, Hoo said:

 

Adjusting the skill ranking points based on the number of players in a race so that players can still earn decent points even in races with fewer people in them.

Does that mean we would lose more points too with fewer people?

8 hours ago, Hoo said:

 

  • Introducing a skill rating bonus based on your finish position so that all players who finish in the top half will earn extra points, with more points going to the players higher up the finishing order.

From what I understand this is for top 50% only. Bottom 50% wouldn't have the opposite effect?

8 hours ago, Hoo said:

 

  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on racing incidents so that players who have accumulated penalties will earn fewer points.

So I'm guessing the more penalties someone has the fewer points they receive. Or is it just having any one penalty automatically triggers a set reduction? Would having a penalty also make someone lose more points if they were going to lose some anyway?

 

PS: I could really use that top 50% bonus right about now. :classic_laugh:

Edited by DizzyDavidson

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Well, I give up. I had 1893 pts. Barely getting anything for my finishes then the game glitched on me ("waiting for players" at start of race) and I lost almost 50 pts. Gave it an honest try but that's about all I can do.

Hey at least I don't have to stress over this anymore. I really liked the addition of F2 and had great fun with the career but if this returns next year I'll be skipping the game. Sorry, not sorry.

Good luck to everyone else still trying.

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This Game is one of the Best F1 Games but this Ranking Systems Sucks a lot. I finished some Races as 2,3,5,4 and now at Bahrain at the Start somebody behind me makes jump start and chrashed my car 50m after the start. I got a DNF wirh a broken wheel and the other one a warning because collision and i lost 30Points and now i have lower Points before i started to play. I think this was the last F1 Game for me. The last years a lot of Trophy Bugs and this Year a stupid Ranking System and also a lot of Trophy Bugs. 

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Codemasters listen to the players, you have worsened the online of this game F1 2019, the pure gold trophy is impossible to obtain.1 because of the score, and the other because of the drivers that beat us, reducing our points unfairly ... in ranking mode place the invitation option please.

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On 9/3/2019 at 8:02 PM, Hoo said:

Hi All,

After looking at the latest data and reviewing your feedback, the team is hoping to make the following changes to the skill ranking system:

  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on the number of players in a race so that players can still earn decent points even in races with fewer people in them.
  • Introducing a skill rating bonus based on your finish position so that all players who finish in the top half will earn extra points, with more points going to the players higher up the finishing order.
  • Adjusting the skill ranking points based on racing incidents so that players who have accumulated penalties will earn fewer points.
  • Reducing the penalty incurred when players quit the session before the race has started, e.g. to a flat rate of -10 points.

We are not yet sure when these changes will be make it into the game – I’m currently hoping for these to make it into patch 1.11, but I’ll update this thread when I get more info from the dev team.

 

There are also a few things that we don’t want to change, so I wanted to go through these briefly to help you understand our perspective and gauge your feelings on these:

  • No points loss following collisions. It was felt that once the race was underway, standard racing rules should be observed. If a player damages their car and is forced to retire from the race then the result should stand. If we make exceptions for this rule then we risk encouraging some players to make reckless moves without repurcussion. For players who are unfairly taken out during a race, we hope that the penalty modifiers above will mitigate the potential advantage of driving badly.
  • Ghosting of cars. Similar to above, we want to discourage potential reckless driving where people may assume that collisions will be disabled if they attempt to drive through other slower-moving vehicles. The safety rating system should help separate players who frequently collide with other vehicles from cleaner drivers.
  • Getting skill points for qualifying. As per the sport, qualifying is there to provide an advantage in the main race rather than as a means to earn points in itself.
  • More points for finishing higher than grid position. Awarding more points if finishing higher than your starting position may lead to players “sandbagging” in the qualifying session in order to earn more points in the race. As such, we intend to only evaluate players’ finishing positions.
  • Skill Rating in Unranked Sessions. As this is a competitive mode, this wouldn’t work in an environment where players could determine the parameters of the competition themselves, e.g. to choose their preferred track or opponents. As such, we aren't considering adding skill ratings into Unranked mode.
  • Lowering “Pure Gold” criteria. In light of the various changes to the balancing, this achievement should become easier to obtain. However, we still want this to represent something of a challenge for players to earn, so don’t want to lower the criteria for this one just yet.

If you have any initial feedback on these issues then please let us know!

Thanks.

Thanks for still giving this the much needed attention. The things you're suggesting would definitely make for a better experience already so I'll be looking out for this patch. I think next to these suggested changes if you would bring back the original gains and leave the losses at current you'd have a pretty solid and fair system.

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Got smashed into last night had to leave the race. Turned ps4 off with 1926 skill points, turned it on tonight with 1765! How does that work???????

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13 minutes ago, Gmr90 said:

Got smashed into last night had to leave the race. Turned ps4 off with 1926 skill points, turned it on tonight with 1765! How does that work???????

Shouldn't have lost so much from a quit out, but best thing in future would be to either finish the race (coming in last is better than quitting early) or if you have to retire because of terminal damage just retire and spectate until the end. Again you'll come in last but you shouldn't lose as much as if you quit

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So overnight I lost almost 200 points but tonight in the space of about 2 hours I've managed to get a gold rating - just gone up to 2013 points. Looks like this new update is actually rewarding a good result and clean racing. Hope it encourages people to drive better now!

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On 8/17/2019 at 10:43 PM, ciao77 said:

Hi. Everyone. As usual after one month...nothing has changed..i lost points (thanks to the people ramming at me.. ). I dont even going to try it again, until there will be a patch with NO POINTS LOST in every case!!! Why should i lose points if i want to disconnect my self?!?!Why i have to hope to find people with high rank than me and hope to beat someone..and if i cant why i have to lose points?! Just because i’am not lucky, i have to lose points?! What a kind of ability is this?! Points never lost, but gained in base at the final placed reached..that is ability!! Is it so hard to do a simple thing like this?! I have the platinum trophy in every GT, F1, wrc, project cars games..i have been playing race games for more than 30 years so i know the circuits..here, i have to fight for the last position because i dont know why im 5-6 secs slower than others..and when im in a good place, here he comes an unrealistic penalty or a rammer that ruins everything. I dont know if whoever had this “fantastic”idea to create this point sistem..was joking or maybe had a flu, or fever.. To the “genius”👨‍🎓that had this idea..try to gain points when someone hit you and destroy your car, or when you lose online connection or when you are in a lobby with 20 people with a rank like yours or lower: if you win no points gained,but if you finish in second place you lose points...Let me tell you one thing...you are a.....”genius”😂😂😂.......Im really sad because really i dont understand why someone has to ruin a game (potentially a good game), with these stupid, online ideas...mah...Goodluck everyone.

To be honest it sounds like you are a bad racer and sore loser. I've come across loads of dirty drivers and it annoys me so much being rammed and to be honest I've crashed quite a few times most times it's an accident or mistake sometimes just hard racing and occasionally I'll swipe someone who rams me (if anyone says they haven't they're probably lying) but those people arent codemasters' responsibility. The new update seems good to reward clean races and good results (I just got 30 points for 2nd in a 6 car lobby). 

Edited by Gmr90

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15 hours ago, Gmr90 said:

Got smashed into last night had to leave the race. Turned ps4 off with 1926 skill points, turned it on tonight with 1765! How does that work???????

Oo poor champ..isnt a good feeling losing points in this way?! How is it possible..a champ like you..Dont tell me that you are a sore loser??😂 now  do you understand that this sistem points its pure..stupidity???this is what i was talking about..now i dont know if its better..and francally i dont care..i dont play bad games likes this because i have throw it away in the garbage where it belongs one months ago..Do you got the trophy good for you..no one cares..have a nice day champ😂😂😂😂

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Please keep comments on topic and avoid anything that could be construed as offensive to other members of the community! Thanks.

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@Hoo Please tell the team I'm giving them two thumbs up on the new update and my thanks. Please don't ever put us through something like this again. XD

 

I gave up on this before, then there was quiet for two weeks, but @Gmr90 posts gave me new hope... and got the gold myself.

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On 9/27/2019 at 1:24 PM, ciao77 said:

Oo poor champ..isnt a good feeling losing points in this way?! How is it possible..a champ like you..Dont tell me that you are a sore loser??😂 now  do you understand that this sistem points its pure..stupidity???this is what i was talking about..now i dont know if its better..and francally i dont care..i dont play bad games likes this because i have throw it away in the garbage where it belongs one months ago..Do you got the trophy good for you..no one cares..have a nice day champ😂😂😂😂

No it's not the end of the world but it's not as if I lost 200 points for finishing low in the race they literally disappeared for no reason. I just got on with it and like I said in my last post the points system seems better after the update because I managed about 10 good results in lobbies with different amounts of players and got quite a lot of points for it.

Edited by Gmr90

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3 hours ago, DizzyDavidson said:

@Hoo Please tell the team I'm giving them two thumbs up on the new update and my thanks. Please don't ever put us through something like this again. XD

 

I gave up on this before, then there was quiet for two weeks, but @Gmr90 posts gave me new hope... and got the gold myself.

They have done a good job for people who race well. At the end of the day they're only human and I highly doubt anyone on here not giving constructive criticism or just taking out their grievances on the developers because they're not just handed their gold rating on a plate could do a better job making a video game. Which is all it is at the end of the day, a game. But well done on the gold, what platform do you play on?

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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 3:44 PM, Gmr90 said:

They have done a good job for people who race well. At the end of the day they're only human and I highly doubt anyone on here not giving constructive criticism or just taking out their grievances on the developers because they're not just handed their gold rating on a plate could do a better job making a video game. Which is all it is at the end of the day, a game. But well done on the gold, what platform do you play on?

True. The devs definitely took the right path on this, not many of us would be able to do. You still have to put in the work but you get fairly rewarded for it now.

And thanks, I'm on PS4.

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Thanks for all of your help and feedback. Hopefully we've got something that everyone is happier with now. If you spot any other issues, or have any other suggestions to improve this then please let us know. 

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Hi. I don´t have a permanent internet connection so I play multiplayer part of the game when I´m at home on weekends. Last weekend was very very frustrating cause I´ve dropped from 1500 to 1300 points in a matter of two hours because two game glitches and three rammers. Hope this weekend things will be better with the update. I have all PS4 F1 games everyone with platinum. 

My psn user is luisvillafuertem.

Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

Hey all,

This update has been a great step in the right direction! Points gains are more significant and ultimately fairer in my opinion. I just reached gold rank earlier today and with the points change being implemented I thought it would be interesting to take note of my games to see how my results are reflected in the system. (Played on PS4)

What I found was that the new system seems to match points awarded to your finishing position as a percentage of the full lobby. Once I realised this I figured that my best chances of gaining rank points was to seek out the largest lobbies, as even a terrible race could sometimes net me points.

As you can see in the attached images, there is no discrimination in the system between a game that has few players and one that has many players (see round 9 vs round 23). Ultimately this means that lower ranked lobbies are far riskier and also less rewarding (as finishing 1st in a 5 person lobby is a top 20% finish whereas 1st in a 20 person lobby is a top 5% finish). 

Going forward the devs may want to look to tune this factor if they want players to avoid leaving the smaller sessions before they even begin. Thank you for communicating with us on your developments and improving the scoring system, please pass our thanks along to the developers!

 

 1985318639_Screenshot2019-10-01at16_06_04.thumb.png.27000a5d6ea9a8b1e1ca5c42b60802b8.pngPoints gained (blue) vs percentage finish (grey)

Edited by Munchy29
Added platform played on

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18 hours ago, Munchy29 said:

Hey all,

What I found was that the new system seems to match points awarded to your finishing position as a percentage of the full lobby. Once I realised this I figured that my best chances of gaining rank points was to seek out the largest lobbies, as even a terrible race could sometimes net me points.

As you can see in the attached images, there is no discrimination in the system between a game that has few players and one that has many players (see round 9 vs round 23). Ultimately this means that lower ranked lobbies are far riskier and also less rewarding (as finishing 1st in a 5 person lobby is a top 20% finish whereas 1st in a 20 person lobby is a top 5% finish). 
 

Hi Munchy, thanks for your suggestion! The conclusions you come to are not quite correct - the reason you get more points for a 1st place finish in a 20 person lobby vs a 5 person lobby is not because it's a higher percentage finish, but because you are beating more people. Obviously the outcome 'more points in a bigger lobby' is the same, but it's also more unlikely that you will finish 1st in the larger lobby.

We have actually reduced this difference with the most recent changes, so it's more viable to race in smaller lobbies now than it was pre-patch 1.12.

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6 minutes ago, Britpoint said:

Hi Munchy, thanks for your suggestion! The conclusions you come to are not quite correct - the reason you get more points for a 1st place finish in a 20 person lobby vs a 5 person lobby is not because it's a higher percentage finish, but because you are beating more people. Obviously the outcome 'more points in a bigger lobby' is the same, but it's also more unlikely that you will finish 1st in the larger lobby.

We have actually reduced this difference with the most recent changes, so it's more viable to race in smaller lobbies now than it was pre-patch 1.12.

Hey Britpoint!

I hope you'll forgive me posting any potentially misleading information, I just thought it would be fun to see if I could see where the scores were coming from! I appreciate the reply and explanation 🙂

 

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Posted (edited)

Before the last update to the skill rating system I had virtually given up on playing ranked. Having read the changes I decided to give it one last try.

 

Here are my observations:

* The end of race skill points given seem fair now. It highly correlates with my race performance. If I crash out of a race due to bad driving or others hitting me, the points lost now are nowhere near as much as before.

* Safety rating of S basically guarantees you will be up against fair racers. I did more than 10 ranked races in a row in a lobby where everyone had S rating without getting rammed or pushed out of the track once. All overtakes I performed were perfectly in line with the rules, nobody behaved dangerously. Also, the guys who overtook me always acted reasonably and gave me enough space.

* Reached Gold skill rating in 2 days

 

All in all, the skill rating system is working as it should now. The safety rating system serves its purpose. Ranked races are fun at last!

Well done, Codies. Please keep the current system intact in F1 2020, as well!

 

Edited by drKotasz
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On 9/30/2019 at 3:18 PM, Hoo said:

Thanks for all of your help and feedback. Hopefully we've got something that everyone is happier with now. If you spot any other issues, or have any other suggestions to improve this then please let us know. 

I just came back here to compliment you and the team for listening to the feedback amd implementing the changes. I finally got around to playing again and the system now feels fair and reflective of actual skill. 

I know you guys have to deal with a lot of flack so it's only fair you get to hear when you do it right...well done!

 

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