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F1 2019 - Skill Rating system broken [SG]

Question

Version: 1.04

Platform: Playstation 4, Xbox and PC

Mode: Ranked Online (5 laps and 25% distance) 

Whenever I'm playing online ranked mode, I'm getting way too low amount of skill points when I win. I know it depends on amount of players in lobby, but for example, in 10 player lobby, when I finish 4, I'm getting like 10 points max. And what's worse, it doesn't matter if I drive 5 laps or 25% distance. But now the worst part. If you place somewhere in the back, game takes way too much points from you. Once I was driving on 1sf position and I've got error... I lost about 300 skill points. This is ridiculous and not even my fault. 

TL:DR: We lose way too much skill points for stuff like being rammed, destroyed or even from game errors and we are earning way too low. Stuff like this shouldn't even happen... Going for the achievement Pure Gold itself is pain in the ass. At least give us ability to improve skill rating in unranked matches while playing with our friends. 

Sorry to say this, but the game is once again broken in online mode at the start. Year after year the same thing happens over and over again. I think, like the rest of us, that it's time to do something with this finally. 

We came up with few solutions (with forums help of course) that can help us and dev team to decide what to do with this problem:

Significantly increase rewarding points and lower the negative ones. We are being punished way too hard right now. Points are also really slowing down when around 1800 points. We are winning like couple of points (if we are lucky) and losing tons of them (when not lucky). 

Positive points for more places than just above 50%. Sometimes we even get negative points for placing much higher than half of the grid and we're still getting negative points. It's really depressing to when you're being punished for your hard work. 

- Completely remove negative points for being destroyed, disconnections and game errors. It's not our fault, so we shouldn't be punished for such an accidents. No points won't hurt anybody and we can at least play and have fun without being worried that someone will ram us to the wall. 

- Give us ability to increase Skill Rating in Unranked races. We can play with friends and that way increase skill and than be matched with other players that know how to race. I'm mean, for real, nobody would mind that, right? 

- Lower requirements for the "Pure Gold" trophy/achievement. It's kinda linked to above points but it doesn't hurt to mention it. Right now it's really very unfair achievement. 

- I know this is not related strictly to the skill rating system, but please improve penalty system. It needs drastic updates, because right now there literally no penalty system at all. People can do whatever they want and there's no punishment. 

PS. 

Please, if you really want this problem to be fixed, spread the word and share link to this topic whenever you need. The more people will give their voice the more chances it will be fixed. 

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You forgot to mention morons rammers who are waiting on finish line just to ram you. The game is not even ghosting them, so they can easily aim you... Who makes stuff like that?! 

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Posted (edited)

The best option is to just make it the same achievement as last years...

almost had gold earlier today - was on 1963 score and then had a race were i started with a puncture... typical codemasters.... thanks.

 

The main problem with it is the lack of players and i'm not joking...

I only come across the same players now, the Silver3's and gold1/2/3 are all top leaderboard players - how are you suppose to compete?

when I search for a game, only around 200 players are searching - is that across all ranks and Safety ratings?!

Edited by ochoco
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@Faya Is there as possibility that you could give us some update on the upcoming patch and if the whole Skill Rating system + Pure Gold trophy will be fixed? We starting new week, it would be really nice if you could tell us something, because as you can see, we are starting losing our minds 😭

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Hi all,

Thanks for your patience. The team is still discussing your feedback on this. 

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2 hours ago, AlexTT said:

Do me a favour, tell me where I said I have super skill? I never said such a thing, nor did I claim that. 

I'm even not saying that people can't play how they want. What I said is that there had to be split lobbies. 1 for non assists and 1 for assists.

without assists faster? Okay, you switch of your assists, then go full throttle begin/half corner, over curbs, grass, gravel anything that's not the track. After that try getting the car in line again. You will almost instantly spin again because of tyre drops or dirty tyres. Get hit by another car, you will almost always lose control where the assist car just keeps going. Go drive without frontwing, without assist undoable! Instant lockups, understeer and all that ****, assist drivers set fastest laptimes with half their front wing gone.

ANY NON ASSIST player will confirm that. And that's where the unfair advantage is in lobbies. 

After that switch on medium TC and ABS and do the same above, and then you'll see what I mean. Every mistake is instantly beeing fixed, you can take every risk, because the assists will take care of that. 

Why should i turn on assists? I learned and am still learning to drive without, because it's A) more realistic B) more satisfying C) more FUN 

i don't care if I win or lose, what I do care about is FAIR competition. And putting assists and non assists together isn't fair. 

But don't put words in my mouth what I never said or claimed, that's just pathetic.

 

You have the presumption to know how I drive. yes I now using the pad and I need some of these assists, because my T300 died a few months ago, waiting to decide which new steering wheel to buy I decided to take f1 on the ps4. For years I played on PC with AC, project cars, f1, etc.

And I can tell you with certainty that, on f1 without assist you go much faster, but I see that you are very convinced of what you say, so probably i wasting my time ..

Have a good day.

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Guys, I love your enthusiasm, but this topic is about broken Skill Rating, not if assists are good or bad. There are other topics about that, so please go there. I want this topic to be strictly about how punishing current system is. If someone from staff will be reading this, I would really like them to see how much we don't like it in the way it is right now. 

Please, stay with the topic 🙂

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Just ended 3rd in a race and lost skill points.

There were only 3 people in my session so the game sees it as me finishing last which is technical correct but i shouldn't get punished because there are not many people online at the same time as me

I even lost skill points for ending 2nd when there were 6 people in my session

This is ridiculous

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Allright, what's wrong CM? Didn't even raced online today. My skillpoints again reduced to 1434. Yesterday is was 1560. Fix this ASAP please. I'm going nuts... 

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Hi @Faya here is some more screen shots to show you what we are dealing with, In italy I came second and my points went up by a few points, happy days, but not a whole lot? then I come 3rd in the german race and I lose points..how? its a podium place this kind of grind is crazy when there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to how points are distrubuted

66582976_1791101804368866_1070062810848821248_n.jpg

66805701_2074987519473927_5955982834723192832_n.jpg

67234855_2351634584873204_8097546742184017920_n.jpg

67302382_632236910621024_4976331426212347904_n.jpg

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Come on Codemasters fix this ******* **** ******* game yet another day getting myself to 1800+ 4th lap out of a 5 lap race boom blue error screen and lose like 5 hours progress of skill rating you don't seem to understand how broken this skill system is, By now someone from the top should be replying to this and telling us how and when this skill system will be fixed it's a beyond a joke.

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7 minutes ago, Lightsp33d1987 said:

Can we not all agree that the best skill point system for online ranked races would be to base it on real life and not the size of lobbies as i won yesterday in a 6 man lobby i got 1 point yes 1 point next race i finish 5th i lost 30 points that would take me 30 wins in that lobby to regain those lost points, This system doesn't work at all and penalize those in smaller lobbies quite heavy lets get it so it's a set format regardless of lobby size so just like real life:-

 

1st - 25 Points

2nd - 18 Points

3rd - 15 Points

4th - 12 Points

5th - 10 Points

6th - 8 Points

7th - 6 Points

8th - 4 Points

9th - 2 Points

10th - 1 Point

Also you could add an extra point for fastest lap now if you really wanted you could make - points for lower than 10th and make it backwards so 11th - -1 Point, 12th - -2 Points and so on this just seems like it should be something so simple to change i love racing online for the most part but this skill system is just so unfair due to rammers, game crashes, loss of connection etc.

This is an excellent idea, i support this 100%

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Hi All,

The dev team are currently investigating a range of changes which they hope will address many of the points raised. The only issue which they have come back on already and ruled out is allowing skill rating in Unranked sessions, as this could break / unbalance the Ranked mode. If you can give the team a week or so to continue their investigations then I'll hopefully be able to update you with the details of what changes are being considered and when they are likely to appear.

Thanks to all who provided constructive help in the thread - it was very useful to help guide the discussions with the dev team!

Hoo.

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Posted (edited)

The devs have to understand that the game isn't going to be popular forever (to be honest the most I have seen online in ranked is 180) when that drops off, as they must know it will, there will be lobbies of maybe even just two people. The current system has no points increase for the winner of a 2 person lobby and the loser dropping points, will that ever change?

Also on that note if the people ahead of you are higher ranked surely they are expected to win so if they do should the loser not lose that many points, if any?

 

As it has been stated the system at the moment doesn't work, and definitely isn't viable for the future. I just wanted to add my voice to the disgruntled customer list.

Edited by DarrenAH
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15 hours ago, Slimmie1987 said:

Yes mate. I know. I like a decent challenge. But it's the unbalanced points system that breaks the ranked MP... I see some people with gold rating but they are not better than me. They probably had al the luck of the world too achieve Gold status. 

Were now at patch 1.08 and still not a single word of the Devs about the skill rating system. 

The popular posts are set automatically, so we don't get to manually edit this list. 

In terms of the issues raised, we have some initial changes that are going into test now and will hopefully be ready for patch 1.09. These will address the balancing of the skill rating system so that there will be fewer severe drops in rating, and overall reduced volatility in the session results. From our initial tests, this shows a much clearer direction towards a player's actual skill and has eliminated the massive drops in rank reported by some players when losing a race.

Additionally, we've tweaked the safety rating system to better group players according to their current safety rating. The prevents some cross-contamination of our groups, allows people who are driving well to move out of the bottom rating quicker and increases the pool of A-rated players.

We've also got another bunch of things that we're working on, but it would be great to get some initial feedback on the above changes once the next patch goes live.

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On 8/15/2019 at 11:33 AM, Hoo said:

In terms of the issues raised, we have some initial changes that are going into test now and will hopefully be ready for patch 1.09. These will address the balancing of the skill rating system so that there will be fewer severe drops in rating, and overall reduced volatility in the session results. From our initial tests, this shows a much clearer direction towards a player's actual skill and has eliminated the massive drops in rank reported by some players when losing a race.

Additionally, we've tweaked the safety rating system to better group players according to their current safety rating. The prevents some cross-contamination of our groups, allows people who are driving well to move out of the bottom rating quicker and increases the pool of A-rated players.

Hi All,

Just a reminder that patch 1.09, which is going live today, should have the above changes in. Please note that there is also a weighting value used that should confer an advantage to non-assisted players in ranking evaluations versus players with assists. This is not intended to be punitive for assisted players, but should help non-assisted players rank up a little quicker when winning, or drop less if losing to assisted players.

Please continue to give us feedback on your experience with the skill ranking once 1.09 is live and I will ensure that the info goes to the dev team.

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Hoo said:

We haven't just lowered the points for everyone, but have adjusted some other numbers that adjust player-to-player ratings to help move players in a better general direction. Please keep adding your feedback though.

So what you're saying is that from all the feedback in this thread so far you have decided to adjust the calculations so that less points are gained and lost ... which is half of what people were asking for.

However, in addition to that you have fine tuned the variables in that calculation to tweek the amount of points gained or lost in on the 1v1 basis. which at most would probably be a couple of points either way, making next to no difference ... also I can't remember anyone in this thread asking for anything like that.

It sounds like you are trying to make the system so that it represents a players skill on track, the changes you have made may allow players to maintain a certain points level/skill rating for a longer time, so you can say that it works in that regard, however the nature of the game doesn't allow that to truly represent a players racing skill due to the randomness and volatility of other racers and the fact that any knock can send you off the track. This is obviously not the case in other racing games, slight knocks and taps don't destroy your race like they can in F1.

I realise that racing against other people is part of the skill needed for the game but to see the actual racing skill of those players collision would need to be turned off completely.

 

The comments made in the OP still stand in my opinion, the system is still broken and what you have done hasn't fixed it so far, it has just made it harder and longer for people to rank up. There are suggestions in the OP in bold and I mostly agree with them all.

 

EDIT: Apologies if this post sounds a little harsh, I don't mean it be taken in that way, but I do stand by what I say in it. I realise that this is the first opportunity (patch) you have been able to even attempt to address some of this stuff and it is appreciated that you are trying to look into it. You have said you are looking to address further issues so I look forward to hearing more about that in the coming weeks.

Edited by DarrenAH
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3 hours ago, DarrenAH said:

So what you're saying is that from all the feedback in this thread so far you have decided to adjust the calculations so that less points are gained and lost ... which is half of what people were asking for.

However, in addition to that you have fine tuned the variables in that calculation to tweek the amount of points gained or lost in on the 1v1 basis. which at most would probably be a couple of points either way, making next to no difference ... also I can't remember anyone in this thread asking for anything like that.

Hi Darren,

I'm Luke, a designer who has been working on the improvements to this system. Just to elaborate a little on what @Hoo has been saying - one of the main things this update should do is correct the more extreme changes in skill rating that you see from anomalous races. If you are in a lobby of people of a similar skill rating, and you finish more or less where the system expects you to, the amount you gain or lose should be comparable to what you were seeing before. Maybe both gains and losses will be a bit smaller.

However, imagine a lobby where your skill rating is higher than the average. The system expects you to win the race, but you get into an incident at turn 1 and you finish down the field. This is an anomalous result, and prior to this patch a result like that could have wiped out all the gains you had made from the previous 10 normal races and then some. Now, that should no longer be the case. The anomalies will still hurt your rating, but the impact should be far less, which will allow you to continue trending upwards gradually overall, assuming you are performing well in normal races.

These changes are informed by the discussion in threads such as these, but also by the metrics that let us look at the bigger picture. We'll be looking at these over the coming days to see how well the impact of these changes match up to our predictions as we consider the next steps.

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3 hours ago, Quickey said:

I did 1 race, player lobby of 10; ended in 4th place and lost 10 points. I did expect to at least earn a few points for ending in the top half, but to my suprise i lost 10 instead

Chances are you were in a lobby of people that were all lower in skill ranking that you, another problem in my opinion.

Due to how the system works you gain points by beating higher ranked players than you, or in a lobby of all ranks lower than you then you must win in order to score some (if any) points

36 minutes ago, ochoco said:

They've fixed what the main issue was (major points loss for bad results)

Proportionate to the gain for a good result they have not fixed the issue at all, they have lowered it across the board which ultimately is the same as doing nothing

Edited by DarrenAH

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2 hours ago, BECOll said:

Buff reward points minimum 2x and remove penalty points for dnf's all together. If you gave harsh penalty points for contact, like 10-30 points per collision for the instigator, that'd help reduce salty boys. Shouldn't lose points when the power goes out or the lobby disconnects you cause internets, these are out of our control.

If you GET retired from contact, you shouldn't get a penalty. Quitting and BEING retired are two different things, can't be that hard to decipher between them. 

Yeah losing internet sucks mine lost connection the other day once it was back loaded up the game to see I lost like 10 points.

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agreed. There are so many dirty drivers that make the game not fun at all. The skill system is useless. This need to be changed!

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I've been playing today for like 2 or 3 hours and made 0 points so far and lost like 300 or even more. The races are a disaster destruction derby and game is forcing that kind of driving. You get no penalties for ramming people or pushing them on the walls so what's the problem? 

I see our topic has been "marked with ZX" but I don't know what that means. Someone know what's up? Would be really nice if they finally looking into it. 

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All right, here's the lobby when I placed 5th and got negative points for it. There were 14 players in the session when the race was on. How the hell am I suppose to get to the 2000? By placing all the time on the podium? That's ridiculous, never ever have I met such a unfair skill rating and achievement itself. 

Screenshots of session in attachments. 

IMG_20190703_140128.jpg

IMG_20190703_140127.jpg

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@Faya asked to post this thing, so I'm doing it. This time I've got 3 points for placing 4th in a 12 player lobby. So generous, almost fall off from my chair 🤣

IMG_20190703_165513.jpg

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Posted (edited)

@Faya  Another "special" one. Here I placed 4th (15 player lobby) and I've got MINUS 7 points... What's the point of playing online? 

IMG_20190703_174935.jpg

IMG_20190703_174933.jpg

Edited by Patricko

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