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tips for the faster stages

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Hi,

just wondered if anyone had any tips on how to manage your car through the faster stages in game? I'm ok on the windy tracks and can generally get within a minute of the best time (like the 10m NZ stage) but i'm quite often a disaster on the 10m Poland and some of the longer Australia stages. 

It's the straight (ish) sections that get me, as soon as the speed climbs up into the 5th or 6th gears and i take a 5 or a 6 corner (with braking of course) i just seem to lose control of the car, the wheel starts to seesaw, i clip the side, car somersaults a few times, wheels go missing. a disaster.

I'm talking about 4wd cars from group A and upwards mainly. I'm a bit better on the slower fwd cars. I stay well clear from anything rwd or group b.

I can muddle through if i slow right down and don't use the higher gears but i lose too much time 😞

thanks!

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@notlbishop It's all about throttle control, pacenotes, rhythm and apexes.

Listen to your notes intently and prepare your car in advance of the corner. Use your throttle and brakes to balance the car, being gentle and smooth in the application. This will help to hit the apexes.

And keep in mind that: slow is smooth and smooth is fast- you do not need to gun the throttle all the time.

Hope this helps.

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thank you @Sammoo 

for something like the poland stage which has a very long fast section how should i attempt to go through those 5 & 6 turns?

at the moment i try flat out in between the turns getting the speed as high as i can. coming up to the turns i brake a little and lift off the throttle completely and try to carry as much speed as i can through the turn then get back on the throttle. carrying that much speed through seems to make the car unstable where any turn of the wheel (even through a light turn like a 5 or a 6) and that's where the seesawing with the wheel starts and i can't get back control of the car. 

If i brake a lot i seem to lose a lot of time and have to go down to like third gear to get the speed back up. 

Just can't seem to find the right balance so i think it must be my technique. Do i need to lift off more and coast through? tap the throttle through the corner or just squeeze it (10%, 50%) ??

thanks!

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@notlbishop The first thing to note is that no two corners are the same- one '6' is not the same as the next '6'. This took me some time to figure out. I had got into the bad habit of trying to take each degree of corner in the same way, at the same speed, and this simply does not work. Each corner has it's own subtleties that drastically affects the line and speed you should take. So, with this in mind, best practise is to take each stage at 95% of what you would consider as your max speed.

 

Secondly, car set up is very important when combined with driving style. Let me explain: There are three parts to a corner; entry, mid (Apex), exit, and I am sure you have probably heard the phrase 'slow in, fast out'. This applies with Rallying, more so than in other disciplines. I will explain my driving style below and how this affects my setup, but generally you are looking for a car that is able to be balanced by application of the brakes and/or throttle. You should consider that a car has three aspects of handling when the application of power/brakes is concerned: Power on, brakes on and coasting. Each aspect can be set to produce either understeer or oversteer using the diff settings. Personally, I prefer a car that understeers on brakes and throttle, but is loose while coasting. Some people prefer oversteer all through- this is what you will need to find out; your preference.

So, this is how I drive: Approaching corner entry, knowing the degree thanks to the pace notes, I am off the throttle coasting while judging the balance of the car and getting a better picture of the corner ahead. I judge a brake point by either seeing the apex ahead or by judging its location, and then apply roughly 80% brake force, slowly releasing pressure as the corner entry or 'turn in' approaches. Just before turn in, I come off completely to use lift off oversteer to turn the car tighter. As I turn in I am back on the throttle to power through the apex, using power to balance between lift off oversteer and power understeer. Once passed the apex, I gradually increase the throttle, constantly judging balance and the corner exit.

So the above is a generalised view of how I drive. It applies to both slower and faster corners. However, getting to the faster corners and chaining one to the other increases the importance placed on the pacenotes. Say you have a 6 right into a 5 left: you will need to take the 6 right that little bit slower in order to keep a tighter exit line and keep to the right of the track so that you are prepared for the 5 left. I go about this by dragging the brake (Very gently) through the 6 right, using brake understeer to balance the rear, lift and coast on exit to produce oversteer just before I transition into the left and then apply power to once again balance the car towards understeer.

If the corners are reversed then the principle is the same, just the speeds are reduced initially. 

 

Key to this whole process is running at 95% max speed, understanding your car and the smooth application of brake and throttle. This is so that you have time to correct a mistake should you make one. Set your car up to be predictable and understand the fundamentals of each corner. Also, turn off your hud. Get rid of the sector times and comparisons- this only adds to a sense of urgency and increases frustration which is not conducive to good stage times. The atmosphere in the car should be calm, not frantic.

What platform do you play on?

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4 hours ago, Sammoo said:

@notlbishop The first thing to note is that no two corners are the same- one '6' is not the same as the next '6'. This took me some time to figure out. I had got into the bad habit of trying to take each degree of corner in the same way, at the same speed, and this simply does not work. Each corner has it's own subtleties that drastically affects the line and speed you should take. So, with this in mind, best practise is to take each stage at 95% of what you would consider as your max speed.

 

Secondly, car set up is very important when combined with driving style. Let me explain: There are three parts to a corner; entry, mid (Apex), exit, and I am sure you have probably heard the phrase 'slow in, fast out'. This applies with Rallying, more so than in other disciplines. I will explain my driving style below and how this affects my setup, but generally you are looking for a car that is able to be balanced by application of the brakes and/or throttle. You should consider that a car has three aspects of handling when the application of power/brakes is concerned: Power on, brakes on and coasting. Each aspect can be set to produce either understeer or oversteer using the diff settings. Personally, I prefer a car that understeers on brakes and throttle, but is loose while coasting. Some people prefer oversteer all through- this is what you will need to find out; your preference.

So, this is how I drive: Approaching corner entry, knowing the degree thanks to the pace notes, I am off the throttle coasting while judging the balance of the car and getting a better picture of the corner ahead. I judge a brake point by either seeing the apex ahead or by judging its location, and then apply roughly 80% brake force, slowly releasing pressure as the corner entry or 'turn in' approaches. Just before turn in, I come off completely to use lift off oversteer to turn the car tighter. As I turn in I am back on the throttle to power through the apex, using power to balance between lift off oversteer and power understeer. Once passed the apex, I gradually increase the throttle, constantly judging balance and the corner exit.

So the above is a generalised view of how I drive. It applies to both slower and faster corners. However, getting to the faster corners and chaining one to the other increases the importance placed on the pacenotes. Say you have a 6 right into a 5 left: you will need to take the 6 right that little bit slower in order to keep a tighter exit line and keep to the right of the track so that you are prepared for the 5 left. I go about this by dragging the brake (Very gently) through the 6 right, using brake understeer to balance the rear, lift and coast on exit to produce oversteer just before I transition into the left and then apply power to once again balance the car towards understeer.

If the corners are reversed then the principle is the same, just the speeds are reduced initially. 

 

Key to this whole process is running at 95% max speed, understanding your car and the smooth application of brake and throttle. This is so that you have time to correct a mistake should you make one. Set your car up to be predictable and understand the fundamentals of each corner. Also, turn off your hud. Get rid of the sector times and comparisons- this only adds to a sense of urgency and increases frustration which is not conducive to good stage times. The atmosphere in the car should be calm, not frantic.

What platform do you play on?

Wow thank you @Sammoo for such a detailed explanation 👍 

I use setups i find online. I hadn’t appreciated that my style might not be compatible with these setups. I really need to understand the tuning for myself it seems.

i play on xbox with a ts-xw wheel.

thank you again. So much to take in here. Back to the practice board tonight.. 😁

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@notlbishop No worries, mate. We are all here to help each other, and DR 2.0 is a difficult game to pick up. It takes time and the occasional bit of advice- I myself have sought help in the past and this community has helped me a great deal.

When it comes to finding a set up, I would advise running the longer stages to get a better feel for the car. Start with the bog standard set up and work from there. I won't profess to be an expert on setups, but I do know a thing or two. So, if you find yourself struggling to make sense of it, just drop me a line and I will be more than willing to help.

But remember: the three aspects of handling work with the three parts of a corner. Find what suits you and as a general rule you want to keep the car as straight as possible, as long as possible: powerslides look good, but are not always the fastest way around a turn.

Best of luck.

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I mostly drive RWD and I had some problems with Poland and its extreme fast sections. 

For me proper setup helped a lot. The Polish roads are not too rough but speeds above 160-180 km/h the car will be bouncy if the suspension is too hard.

To keep the car tight I use the throttle carefully. Sudden lift off and sudden full power could imbalance the car. I use the brake aggressively, sometimes blocking the front wheels but I always apply some throttle to keep things (the rear) under controll. Kinda left-foot braking although I play on xbox with a controller.

Keeping the throttle on during corner entry is also gives you some room to making the turn tighter - if you go wide you can still lift off some more. If you are completely lifted off on entry you can tighten your approach only with the brakes and its more unstable and unsafe!

Don't overdrive the car- find a pace where you are still in full controll. When you feel you're riding a cannonball or a jet-powered skateboard try to go slower.

As I mentioned I drive RWDs but I hope the hints above can be useful for AWD too.

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@redriot77 For rear wheel drives, yes. The application of throttle will certainly help turn the car, and this is the same for AWD if the car is set up to behave like this through the diffs. So @notlbishop you should take this into account if you prefer a car that oversteers on throttle. Also, 'left foot braking' or dragging the brake/ is another good tip for balancing the car, again depending on your set up.

It's all down to preference. I bet if others tried my setups they would find them undriveable because of conflicting styles, just the same as I have tried others users setups and hated them.

Funnily enough, the best game I found for teaching me handling and corner dynamic as a NASCAR game... yeah, who would have thought it, eh?

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Biggest things to note:

1. DO NOT COME FULLY OFF THROTTLE. Lift-off oversteer can be deadly at speed, you want to maintain 40%+ throttle pressure through most/all fast corners

2. You have two feet, use both at the same time. Keep 40% throttle pressure, while giving 20% brake pressure on entry to get the front wheels biting in a bit extra to control the corner

3. Do not be 100% on throttle when going over the fastest jumps/bumps. Come off to 50% as you land to give the wheels a second to regain their grip and the car balanced. Being 100% on throttle can cause you to essentially "chirp" the tires on landing and that can cause some very unexpected wiggles - no bueno @ 120mph...

4. Focus on getting the cleanest entry possible. In the fastest sections, getting a clean first corner (even if that means entering it 20mph slower and 0.5 sec behind) is HUGE in making sure you keep speed all the way through. Australia is a great example, where it has that stupid fast 5/6 section after the gate where you have a rocky cliff face on one side and trees on the other. Giving up a bit of speed to make sure you hit the first corner correctly translates to you being close to flatout the entire section. Now compare that to you hitting the first corner faster, but having to spend the next corner recovering and stabilizing...

Side note - setups can be huge in helping you feel comfortable with a car, but always remember they are never required. You can pace WR time trials in a fully stock car.

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@Mike Dee I think I would disagree with you there- I come completely off the throttle fairly often, usually though I would be dragging a brake. But you are right about the set ups. You do not need them- I just prefer to drive with a slightly modified setup for the comfort factor.

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11 minutes ago, Sammoo said:

@Mike Dee I think I would disagree with you there- I come completely off the throttle fairly often, usually though I would be dragging a brake. But you are right about the set ups. You do not need them- I just prefer to drive with a slightly modified setup for the comfort factor.

Probably just comes down to the car for how much throttle you want. If you're chasing WRs though you have no real choice but to be on the throttle to some degree through everything. RWD cars I find I'm semi-on throttle more often than AWD just because of how dramatic the weight shift can be for them. I also just find staying at least a bit on throttle, even 20% or so, does wonders for keeping the car stable just like being 20% on brake over bumpy awkward stretches like in Sweden.

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11 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Probably just comes down to the car for how much throttle you want. If you're chasing WRs though you have no real choice but to be on the throttle to some degree through everything. RWD cars I find I'm semi-on throttle more often than AWD just because of how dramatic the weight shift can be for them. I also just find staying at least a bit on throttle, even 20% or so, does wonders for keeping the car stable just like being 20% on brake over bumpy awkward stretches like in Sweden.

Ah I never chase wr.

I binge the game for about a week then don't play it for ages as this helps me to forget the stages. Makes it more interesting that way- probably why I prefer a comfy setup.

But I do agree that you do want an input on the car, either brakes or throttle, over the fast bits. And now that I am really thinking about it, a quick blast on the brakes between corners really helps to settle the car.

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Thanks everyone, I didn’t expect this much response! Some real tangible stuff here i can try differently so really appreciate all your replies 😊

Going back in... 😄

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Well this was unexpected. Just had a few goes on Zagórze (the long polish stage 10m) with the mitsubishi and lancer. No word of a lie last night i restarted so many times because i could not get past checkpoint 4 without a puncture. I couldn’t even set a time!

I have managed 3 pretty clean runs now getting to the end and my latest was just over a minute off the best time. I’m like 55th best time 😲 1.7 seconds and i’m within a minute of it. 

 

Stock set up. Coasting. Managing the throttle. Regulating speed if it feels like its going too fast to control. Couple of restarts needed but that’s because i mucked up elsewhere rather than the faster parts.

 

Thanks everyone. Well chuffed 😁

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18 minutes ago, notlbishop said:

Well this was unexpected. Just had a few goes on Zagórze (the long polish stage 10m) with the mitsubishi and lancer. No word of a lie last night i restarted so many times because i could not get past checkpoint 4 without a puncture. I couldn’t even set a time!

I have managed 3 pretty clean runs now getting to the end and my latest was just over a minute off the best time. I’m like 55th best time 😲 1.7 seconds and i’m within a minute of it. 

 

Stock set up. Coasting. Managing the throttle. Regulating speed if it feels like its going too fast to control. Couple of restarts needed but that’s because i mucked up elsewhere rather than the faster parts.

 

Thanks everyone. Well chuffed 😁

Well done buddy!

Let us know your time. 

I got the bug now. Ps4 here I come!

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So i just did Australia chandlers creek reverse. I did manage to set a time on this one a couple of days ago. Just managed to better it by about 46 seconds 😱 a 7:11.453. 43rd best time, 53 seconds off the top.

my Zagórze time was 8:16.079

i think i’ll go for a lie down now 😂

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22 minutes ago, notlbishop said:

So i just did Australia chandlers creek reverse. I did manage to set a time on this one a couple of days ago. Just managed to better it by about 46 seconds 😱 a 7:11.453. 43rd best time, 53 seconds off the top.

my Zagórze time was 8:16.079

i think i’ll go for a lie down now 😂

Good man.

I'm gonna keep an eye on you! You are getting fast, fast.

My profile name is sammoo1989. And you are catching me.

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Just came to say that co-pilot is not consistent with what he means by "6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" etc. It seems to depends on how fast he expects you to drive, so a 3 on a fast section can be a 5 if it's right behind a corner you'd slow down for anyway.
Poland is especially notorious for "fast" sections that you should not keep your throttle on 100% of the time. Unless it's a "flat" left or right, you need to slow down (unless you know the turn by hand). If it's a 5, then it's probably dangerous - on the other hand, most 4s are quite chill, given the speeds they appear on.

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One thing I have to keep reminding myself is that, a 6 turn is safe only if I’m entering it at like 130km/hr. But at 160, I’m going to start feathering the brake around 40m beforehand. And of course, we have to take into account the road conditions. 

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