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Even if you are a hardcore or not, lots of people just want to jump in the car and race, endless setting up and fine tuning is not for every one...sometimes you can go to far with the simulation 

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You'll find the opposite actually, lets use GT6 as an example, it's probably the most popular racing game out there that offers a ton of features and the ability to adjust your car, and 90% of the races i have online in there, people enjoy having practice sessions before a race tuning their car, there's alot of fun to be had doing that, and essentially it means time spent playing the game, which is what they want, these people you speak of who "just want to jump in and play" also usually get bored after 10 minutes because they get frustrated that they keep getting penalties for corner cutting because they suck.

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gor said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer... - coz a lot of them
...when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? - i think less than 1% who watch racing play games and less than 1% of them are not casual gamers.
How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? - I have  :D
How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing...f1 fan is not allways f1 game fan, or f1 sim fan, its mostly rare i think....when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 

 
You just loking from your point and do not see all picture. Its not only black and white around you =)
and what percentage of those play RACING games? Face it, racing is a niche genre of gaming and F1 is a niche sport. Why not target to your core demographic ("the 1% of F1 fan gamers") rather than 99% of the casual market of which 1% are likely to even consider paying £50 for a nice genre of a niche sport.

all Codies are ensuring in this mess of dodgy percentages and unquantified "facts" and figures is that 100% of their customers are likely to be pissed off because their F1 games do 30% of things 5% right

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Why are they trying to please the casual gamer when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoy playing the games.

CM know more about their user base than anyone on here ever will. They probably know how many are playing on wheel and how many on controller for example. So they know who is buying the game and how they play it and whether they want a sim or not. My guess is that the people who prefer a good casual gaming experience outnumber those who prefer sim like realism by at least a factor of 10 to 1.

Personally I do not want a sim. F1 2013 hit a good spot for me and was/is enjoyable without needing to go too much into sim settings and using a wheel. To me the key is in the name, simcade. If you are looking for a full sim then F1 has not previously been designed around that, so you'd be better off going to games that actually try to be simulators rather than playing a game that doesn't claim to be one. I would be sad if the simcade genre went, because IMO it is a lot of fun, it is accessible and playable without being too punishing.

For me the method of control is a big hint about gaming realism. IMO no one who drives with a controller (and that's me by the way) can really claim they want the game to be more sim like because surely the most dominant thing about whether you are getting a realistic experience is the control method. 

I think it remains to be seen whether F1 2015 will be more sim than cade. Clearly CM are saying they have more advanced modelling, which might suggest  the new game will be more sim like. The irony is that a lot of casual users want to feel that they are playing a game as close to real life as possible, even if they are not willing to invest in the rig to do so, and would be really hacked off if they were given a sim like game that they were unable to play. A lot of  people who play the game don't really know what they want. 

It would be interesting to know how CM will describe F1 2015, simcade or something different ? This might be quite revealing as to what their objectives are.

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gor said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer... - coz a lot of them
...when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? - i think less than 1% who watch racing play games and less than 1% of them are not casual gamers.
How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? - I have  :D
How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing...f1 fan is not allways f1 game fan, or f1 sim fan, its mostly rare i think....when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 

 
You just loking from your point and do not see all picture. Its not only black and white around you =)
and what percentage of those play RACING games? Face it, racing is a niche genre of gaming and F1 is a niche sport. Why not target to your core demographic ("the 1% of F1 fan gamers") rather than 99% of the casual market of which 1% are likely to even consider paying £50 for a nice genre of a niche sport.

all Codies are ensuring in this mess of dodgy percentages and unquantified "facts" and figures is that 100% of their customers are likely to be pissed off because their F1 games do 30% of things 5% right

I just commented your opinion about "F1 game can exist only for hardcore players" and trying to say not only sim-wankers wonna feel as real fast driver in f1 car on real track, but you go to "pissed off ppl" :D CM doing a lot shitty decisions, but they give f1 game so many futures as it needed for this niche players category - middle between noobs and pro.
I have played f1 2012 and have a lot of fun. There was tunning, tires and so on, but it was not hard to catch and did not take to much time. Enough thing to feel yourself like a driver and thats the point. 30% of thing is too much, i think there is less and enough. And we cant tell about what is right and wrong, coz we looking from 1 point.
Things wich made me pissed off? There was network lags that time (f1 2012). And offcours ramming kidz haha. And maybe about cut corners a bit. Thats all.

So i do not understand what you complaining about, jumping from one theme to another? Price? Well, who knows how much licenses cost, nah, do not want to consider other people's money . Just for you to know: in my country i need to give away 1/3 of my month salary for this game, for someone its 1/2. Far away in 2012 i wait for steam sale. If you need to give away 1/10 im happy about you.

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dirt3joe said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoy playing the games.

CM know more about their user base than anyone on here ever will. They probably know how many are playing on wheel and how many on controller for example. So they know who is buying the game and how they play it and whether they want a sim or not. My guess is that the people who prefer a good casual gaming experience outnumber those who prefer sim like realism by at least a factor of 10 to 1.

Personally I do not want a sim. F1 2013 hit a good spot for me and was/is enjoyable without needing to go too much into sim settings and using a wheel. To me the key is in the name, simcade. If you are looking for a full sim then F1 has not previously been designed around that, so you'd be better off going to games that actually try to be simulators rather than playing a game that doesn't claim to be one. I would be sad if the simcade genre went, because IMO it is a lot of fun, it is accessible and playable without being too punishing.

For me the method of control is a big hint about gaming realism. IMO no one who drives with a controller (and that's me by the way) can really claim they want the game to be more sim like because surely the most dominant thing about whether you are getting a realistic experience is the control method. 

I think it remains to be seen whether F1 2015 will be more sim than cade. Clearly CM are saying they have more advanced modelling, which might suggest  the new game will be more sim like. The irony is that a lot of casual users want to feel that they are playing a game as close to real life as possible, even if they are not willing to invest in the rig to do so, and would be really hacked off if they were given a sim like game that they were unable to play. A lot of  people who play the game don't really know what they want. 

It would be interesting to know how CM will describe F1 2015, simcade or something different ? This might be quite revealing as to what their objectives are.

My point is if they make the game more "sim" like, its easy to calibrate it to arcade users through difficulty levels and driver aids. They probably wont bother though, because they know that F1 fans will buy the game regardless of how bad it is due to their passion for the sport. That leaves them pandering to people with no interest in F1 because they want to sell the product to people who werent already almost guaranteed to buy it

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PastaMaldonado said:
My point is if they make the game more "sim" like, its easy to calibrate it to arcade users through difficulty levels and driver aids. They probably wont bother though, because they know that F1 fans will buy the game regardless of how bad it is due to their passion for the sport. That leaves them pandering to people with no interest in F1 because they want to sell the product to people who werent already almost guaranteed to buy it
You are wrong about more "sim" like.

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dirt3joe said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoy playing the games.

CM know more about their user base than anyone on here ever will. They probably know how many are playing on wheel and how many on controller for example. So they know who is buying the game and how they play it and whether they want a sim or not. My guess is that the people who prefer a good casual gaming experience outnumber those who prefer sim like realism by at least a factor of 10 to 1.

Personally I do not want a sim. F1 2013 hit a good spot for me and was/is enjoyable without needing to go too much into sim settings and using a wheel. To me the key is in the name, simcade. If you are looking for a full sim then F1 has not previously been designed around that, so you'd be better off going to games that actually try to be simulators rather than playing a game that doesn't claim to be one. I would be sad if the simcade genre went, because IMO it is a lot of fun, it is accessible and playable without being too punishing.

For me the method of control is a big hint about gaming realism. IMO no one who drives with a controller (and that's me by the way) can really claim they want the game to be more sim like because surely the most dominant thing about whether you are getting a realistic experience is the control method. 

I think it remains to be seen whether F1 2015 will be more sim than cade. Clearly CM are saying they have more advanced modelling, which might suggest  the new game will be more sim like. The irony is that a lot of casual users want to feel that they are playing a game as close to real life as possible, even if they are not willing to invest in the rig to do so, and would be really hacked off if they were given a sim like game that they were unable to play. A lot of  people who play the game don't really know what they want. 

It would be interesting to know how CM will describe F1 2015, simcade or something different ? This might be quite revealing as to what their objectives are.

My point is if they make the game more "sim" like, its easy to calibrate it to arcade users through difficulty levels and driver aids. They probably wont bother though, because they know that F1 fans will buy the game regardless of how bad it is due to their passion for the sport. That leaves them pandering to people with no interest in F1 because they want to sell the product to people who werent already almost guaranteed to buy it
I agree it should be possible to de-skill the sim by driver aids. But you have to remember that each sim feature put in comes at a cost to other features. So the more work they do on say tyre modelling, the less resources they have to program career mode, or live the life or new camera angles, or implement dedicated servers. As a business they are going to use the resources where they think it is going to generate the most sales.

I also agree re the dedicated fans. Some people on here seem to buy/pre order the game year after year and claim that they are massively disappointed with it. Well, that's like banging your head against a brick wall. The only option you have if you don't like the game is to vote with your wallet and/or at the very least wait until the game is released and reviewed by people who you trust before splashing out.I love CM games, but I didn't buy 14 because it seemed obvious to me before release that it was not enough change from 2013 to justify at full price, and I am not so big a fan of F1 to want to try the new cars. On the other hand I bought complete edition of F1 2013 for £25 I think and that has been excellent value for money. I have really enjoyed it.

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I agree with you Joe Dirt, however in my opinion they have somehow removed more features from 2010 - '14 than added.. In my personal opinion 2015 will be make or break for this series, this game will set the tone and their should be no excuses considering they took an extra year to develop it. Again, this is just my personal opinion..

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As long as they get rid of those bloody setup sliders, i don't want to see all setup options based on a number from 1 - 11

i mean, really? 
lol. My guess is that they could put in sliders, round the output values to integers and you'd never tell the difference but be happy.

That said I never fiddle with stuff like that so admittedly I have no clue ... 

I often wonder whether if I was designing something like F1 I would include an extra page of controls that do absolutely bugger all but allow people to fiddle with them. That way the fiddlers can mess around with something and feel like they are making a difference. It gives people a feeling of control, even if they don't have any in reality. Subtle psychology and all that :)

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As a fan of f1 but not a hardcore sim racer, what would they replace the setup sliders with, if they were to change it. Sorry can't understand your frustration towards sliders

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They could go what GT6 does, have these advanced setup options, but also a description of how this affects the car so even if you have no clue, it will teach you in a simple way you can understand, surely learning these things will be productive, if even it's for a casual f1 fan, if they are a fan of the sport, surely they would enjoy learning how changing the car around can affect it, i don't know anyone who has an interest in F1 but has no desire to learn even in a small way "how it works"

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But in my throughts is the engineer sets the car , driver drive and reports back to engineer about how the car handle, otherwise no point in the engineer, motogp style engineer set up works well....

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dirt3joe said:
dirt3joe said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoy playing the games.

CM know more about their user base than anyone on here ever will. They probably know how many are playing on wheel and how many on controller for example. So they know who is buying the game and how they play it and whether they want a sim or not. My guess is that the people who prefer a good casual gaming experience outnumber those who prefer sim like realism by at least a factor of 10 to 1.

Personally I do not want a sim. F1 2013 hit a good spot for me and was/is enjoyable without needing to go too much into sim settings and using a wheel. To me the key is in the name, simcade. If you are looking for a full sim then F1 has not previously been designed around that, so you'd be better off going to games that actually try to be simulators rather than playing a game that doesn't claim to be one. I would be sad if the simcade genre went, because IMO it is a lot of fun, it is accessible and playable without being too punishing.

For me the method of control is a big hint about gaming realism. IMO no one who drives with a controller (and that's me by the way) can really claim they want the game to be more sim like because surely the most dominant thing about whether you are getting a realistic experience is the control method. 

I think it remains to be seen whether F1 2015 will be more sim than cade. Clearly CM are saying they have more advanced modelling, which might suggest  the new game will be more sim like. The irony is that a lot of casual users want to feel that they are playing a game as close to real life as possible, even if they are not willing to invest in the rig to do so, and would be really hacked off if they were given a sim like game that they were unable to play. A lot of  people who play the game don't really know what they want. 

It would be interesting to know how CM will describe F1 2015, simcade or something different ? This might be quite revealing as to what their objectives are.

My point is if they make the game more "sim" like, its easy to calibrate it to arcade users through difficulty levels and driver aids. They probably wont bother though, because they know that F1 fans will buy the game regardless of how bad it is due to their passion for the sport. That leaves them pandering to people with no interest in F1 because they want to sell the product to people who werent already almost guaranteed to buy it
I agree it should be possible to de-skill the sim by driver aids. But you have to remember that each sim feature put in comes at a cost to other features. So the more work they do on say tyre modelling, the less resources they have to program career mode, or live the life or new camera angles, or implement dedicated servers. As a business they are going to use the resources where they think it is going to generate the most sales.

I also agree re the dedicated fans. Some people on here seem to buy/pre order the game year after year and claim that they are massively disappointed with it. Well, that's like banging your head against a brick wall. The only option you have if you don't like the game is to vote with your wallet and/or at the very least wait until the game is released and reviewed by people who you trust before splashing out.I love CM games, but I didn't buy 14 because it seemed obvious to me before release that it was not enough change from 2013 to justify at full price, and I am not so big a fan of F1 to want to try the new cars. On the other hand I bought complete edition of F1 2013 for £25 I think and that has been excellent value for money. I have really enjoyed it.
Seems to be no career mode anyway lol

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dirt3joe said:
dirt3joe said:
Why are they trying to please the casual gamer when the sport as a whole doesnt appeal to a casual audience? How many countries even have F1 on free to air TV anymore? How many casual viewers are goingto flick the tv onto F1 at the precise time a GP is airing when they have hundreds of pay tv channels designed to appeal to the idiotic masses with 5 second attention spans. 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CODEMASTERS JUST MAKE A GAME FOR THE FANS 
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoy playing the games.

CM know more about their user base than anyone on here ever will. They probably know how many are playing on wheel and how many on controller for example. So they know who is buying the game and how they play it and whether they want a sim or not. My guess is that the people who prefer a good casual gaming experience outnumber those who prefer sim like realism by at least a factor of 10 to 1.

Personally I do not want a sim. F1 2013 hit a good spot for me and was/is enjoyable without needing to go too much into sim settings and using a wheel. To me the key is in the name, simcade. If you are looking for a full sim then F1 has not previously been designed around that, so you'd be better off going to games that actually try to be simulators rather than playing a game that doesn't claim to be one. I would be sad if the simcade genre went, because IMO it is a lot of fun, it is accessible and playable without being too punishing.

For me the method of control is a big hint about gaming realism. IMO no one who drives with a controller (and that's me by the way) can really claim they want the game to be more sim like because surely the most dominant thing about whether you are getting a realistic experience is the control method. 

I think it remains to be seen whether F1 2015 will be more sim than cade. Clearly CM are saying they have more advanced modelling, which might suggest  the new game will be more sim like. The irony is that a lot of casual users want to feel that they are playing a game as close to real life as possible, even if they are not willing to invest in the rig to do so, and would be really hacked off if they were given a sim like game that they were unable to play. A lot of  people who play the game don't really know what they want. 

It would be interesting to know how CM will describe F1 2015, simcade or something different ? This might be quite revealing as to what their objectives are.

My point is if they make the game more "sim" like, its easy to calibrate it to arcade users through difficulty levels and driver aids. They probably wont bother though, because they know that F1 fans will buy the game regardless of how bad it is due to their passion for the sport. That leaves them pandering to people with no interest in F1 because they want to sell the product to people who werent already almost guaranteed to buy it
I agree it should be possible to de-skill the sim by driver aids. But you have to remember that each sim feature put in comes at a cost to other features. So the more work they do on say tyre modelling, the less resources they have to program career mode, or live the life or new camera angles, or implement dedicated servers. As a business they are going to use the resources where they think it is going to generate the most sales.

I also agree re the dedicated fans. Some people on here seem to buy/pre order the game year after year and claim that they are massively disappointed with it. Well, that's like banging your head against a brick wall. The only option you have if you don't like the game is to vote with your wallet and/or at the very least wait until the game is released and reviewed by people who you trust before splashing out.I love CM games, but I didn't buy 14 because it seemed obvious to me before release that it was not enough change from 2013 to justify at full price, and I am not so big a fan of F1 to want to try the new cars. On the other hand I bought complete edition of F1 2013 for £25 I think and that has been excellent value for money. I have really enjoyed it.
Seems to be no career mode anyway lol

Indeed that's why I'm considering not bothering with 2015

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Regarding the setups, they should truly look at Milestones MotoGP games and use some ideas. The player has the option of talking through issues with the bike with the engineer and they will make the appropriate changes. Alternatively, the player can opt to change any of the settings manually if so desired.

something like this would be a happy medium, however Im doubtful anything will happen. Codies (like apple) seem to beleive people are too dumb to make their own decisions so dont give you the option in the first place.

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Regarding the setups, they should truly look at Milestones MotoGP games and use some ideas. The player has the option of talking through issues with the bike with the engineer and they will make the appropriate changes. Alternatively, the player can opt to change any of the settings manually if so desired.

Completely agree; that setup system in the MotoGP games is awesome!

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