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This is how ERS should work like in real life

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ERS is unrealistic right now and a pain in the ass if you want to be competitive and automatic is completely useless ; using random ERS.

This is how automatic ERS should work like in real life. You have pre determined point where you can choose between none to hotlap and Overtake  is a separated button that you activate yourself like in real life. In this game you will have the map of the track in your setup where you can choose which ERS you want to use at different location on the track. During the race you only have to use Overtake when needed but you need to make sure your setup you made is able to charge enought ERS to be able use Overtake so you have a lot of customization possible.

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I believe the current ERS Practice Program keeps track of our deployment setting throughout the lap anyway, so I guess it wouldn't be impossible to use the ERS Program to "paint" our own map, which could be used for the race. The ERS program should consist in doing let's say 3 laps, using ERS manually in the way you would like it to deploy during the race. You could later see the laptimes and "net deployment". It could say that on lap 1 you did a 1:25:0 and net deployment was +5% of the battery, on lap 2 you did 1:24:7, but net deployment was +1%. Then you could choose the map depending on how often you expect to use "overtake" mode during the race. It would be a practice program worth doing. Currently the ERS Program is a bit pointless for me.

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I sincerely hope ERS does not change from what it is. It doesn't match real life correct, but the way it has been done puts the control to the user and adds a further element of strategy and skill to the game that just having an overtake button would not really do IMO. This is 1 of the non-realistic features that I feel Codies have done right.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, martbloke said:

I sincerely hope ERS does not change from what it is. It doesn't match real life correct, but the way it has been done puts the control to the user and adds a further element of strategy and skill to the game that just having an overtake button would not really do IMO. This is 1 of the non-realistic features that I feel Codies have done right.

That's why there's a button in real life which is called "OVERTAKE"

it is available for a amount of time in every race, and when pushed it sets engine to max and ers to overtake. Release it and you go to your setting that's active.

i've seen this in a documentaire from mervedes. Irl drivers actually don't even touch ERS settings.

they have a turn **** with several engine settings which are all preset with engine output and ers output. 

 

Edit: why the word **** is censured? Cm seems to keep amazing me

Edited by AlexTT
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Reaction on my edit:

the word k-n-o-b

why is that censured?

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26 minutes ago, AlexTT said:

Reaction on my edit:

the word k-n-o-b

why is that censured?

haha that's pretty amusing.

probably because it's a slang word for your pee-pee that's used as an insult.

anyway regarding the ERS - yeah i'd like to see the automatic setting being better as it would be more realistic.

but you can't actually fault CM for doing the ERS the current way, as it was a hugely-requested feature in the past when it was just purely automatic. people on the forums used to scream about "why can't we choose ERS deployment like the drivers do!" and now that they added it people are screaming the opposite.

i think the best thing would probably be a middle-ground - allow people to set it manually but improve the way the automatic setting works, the latter of which is a bit bad at the moment. 

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I think in stead of mix and ers, maybe there should be "mappings" like now how the release of power and torque will be regulated, for dry and wet, and quali, 3 race settings, and so on. So we van just select different mappings while driving, and introduce the overtake button which all sets to max. But the longer it's pressed the more damage it does to the engine, or give it a desgnated time where it has max effect, and after that it will do far less in power increase.

 

i think that will be more realistic

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Posted (edited)

I use ERS with mode 1 as "conservative", mode 2 as "normal/pace" and mode 3 as "aggressive".

Mode 4 should be accessible through a button. It's more or less what we saw in assetto corsa.

Problems come from the fact that ers modes make you faster if you use them all throughout the lap.

To be faster you have to "map" the ERS in real time instead of using it with modes.

The same happens with fuel. Lean/standard/rich are clearly modes but you can be faster using lean and rich respectively for corners and straights.

I think the current ERS and fuel system is a good compromise, it's the "faster" way to use them that generates the debate and makes everything unrealistic...

Edited by sirio994

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19 minutes ago, sirio994 said:

I use ERS with mode 1 as "conservative", mode 2 as "normal/pace" and mode 3 as "aggressive".

Mode 4 should be accessible through a button. It's more or less what we saw in assetto corsa.

Problems come from the fact that ers modes make you faster if you use them all throughout the lap.

To be faster you have to "map" the ERS in real time instead of using it with modes.

The same happens with fuel. Lean/standard/rich are clearly modes but you can be faster using lean and rich respectively for corners and straights.

I think the current ERS and fuel system is a good compromise, it's the "faster" way to use them that generates the debate and makes everything unrealistic...

Agreed, that's why I opted the engine mapping solution. Different settings for different parts of the race, benefit is that you can keep focus on racing, and once in a while change mapping. 

Overtake button available for a set period of time to keep it fair in the field (looking at online) 

that's how real life works, then it's up to the driver to use them to their benefits.

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Wow I see by the number of disagrees my comment got that the majority opinion is wanting something less manual with an overtake button. That's fair enough as everybody's allowed their opinion. I don't mind the idea, I just prefer the current design. If a more automatic system is implemented then it won't bother me as everyone's got the same game, so we'll see if Codies take note.

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When they first announced ERS management, this is how I thought they'd do it (setting the ERS strategy before the race and then manually using 'overtake' as a button now and then) but the way they've actually implemented it is quite frustrating when you're on a pad and having to scroll up and down the MFD all the time to micro-manage ERS. Especially when you're trying to concentrate on doing a quick quali lap. I hope they change it for a future game in the long term and just have a better 'automatic' ERS function in the short term.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, MattkD37 said:

When they first announced ERS management, this is how I thought they'd do it (setting the ERS strategy before the race and then manually using 'overtake' as a button now and then) but the way they've actually implemented it is quite frustrating when you're on a pad and having to scroll up and down the MFD all the time to micro-manage ERS. Especially when you're trying to concentrate on doing a quick quali lap. I hope they change it for a future game in the long term and just have a better 'automatic' ERS function in the short term.

Hey, did you try to use the Shortcuts options in the gameSettings? You can assign 2 buttons for ERS. One for increase of ERS and one for decrease of ERS. This way you don't have to scroll up and down the MFD for ERS. I use a wheel, but if im correct, you can use the shortcuts also with a pad. Try that and let me/us know.

Edited by GioProductions
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, GioProductions said:

Hey, did you try to use the Shortcuts options in the gameSettings? You can assign 2 buttons for ERS. One for increase of ERS and one for decrease of ERS. This way you don't have to scroll up and down the MFD for ERS. I use a wheel, but if im correct, you can use the shortcuts also with a pad. Try that and let me/us know.

Pain in the ass  to go from none to hotlap or hotlap to none you have to spamm the button brainless and loss focus on your driving this is frustrating when you have to change ERS on every corner cause most of time just kepting medium just doesnt work and run out of ERS cause your car doenst have upgrade in ERS and when you do 50%-100% race is quite a pain to manage ERS for over a hour. I don't think codemaster play their game multiple hours to see  how ERS is bad for the game, Is just multi tasking and losing the main goal of the game wich is racing.

Edited by Punition
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I personally don't think codemasters considered that people would be changing the ERS through every corner. The same problem with the fuel that they had on the previous games. A driver isn't using low fuel in a corner then turning up the high on a straight. The whole system is broken.

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8 hours ago, GioProductions said:

Hey, did you try to use the Shortcuts options in the gameSettings? You can assign 2 buttons for ERS. One for increase of ERS and one for decrease of ERS. This way you don't have to scroll up and down the MFD for ERS. I use a wheel, but if im correct, you can use the shortcuts also with a pad. Try that and let me/us know.

Yeah, you can change the buttons to control the ERS, but it's still quite annoying constantly having to increase and decrease it all the time. Plus you're limited on buttons with a pad compared to a wheel.

41 minutes ago, Dunky1980 said:

I personally don't think codemasters considered that people would be changing the ERS through every corner. The same problem with the fuel that they had on the previous games. A driver isn't using low fuel in a corner then turning up the high on a straight. The whole system is broken.

I've personally never had an issue managing fuel, it's only three modes and you're not constantly having to micro-manage it. It's just the ERS. You have 5 modes constantly needing management (plus the original 3 fuel modes as well, meaning you're cycling through up to eight modes altogether) It's just too distracting IMO. It's probably easier on a wheel, as you have more buttons available to you. But on a pad, it's a pain in the HAAS *badum tss*

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I have a wheel and the three fuel modes using two buttons is relatively simple - and works fine. Did the same for ERS - and working though five modes is more difficult - but can be handled reasonably OK. It is when you are trying to do the combination of the two that that things get problematic. For example to get to what I assume is "party mode" is max on fuel and ERS. The F1 teams use presets of combinations so that the driver only has to do one action. 

For those that don't have buttons to set - the challenge of looping through menus - then within menus - to then within settings - is clearly distracting. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dwin20 said:

I have a wheel and the three fuel modes using two buttons is relatively simple - and works fine. Did the same for ERS - and working though five modes is more difficult - but can be handled reasonably OK. It is when you are trying to do the combination of the two that that things get problematic. For example to get to what I assume is "party mode" is max on fuel and ERS. The F1 teams use presets of combinations so that the driver only has to do one action. 

For those that don't have buttons to set - the challenge of looping through menus - then within menus - to then within settings - is clearly distracting. 

I agree. It's nice to be able to change settings, but its not as slick as it could be. Its especially fiddly on Monaco!

I could be wrong, but IRL I think that the cars system can be set to target either a set SoC or SoC delta over a lap. It would be good if we could get that sort of system, where we can modify settings 1, 2, and 3. Say for example we could set 1 to be charge up 10%, 2 to be +/- 0% and 3 deplete by 20% per lap. Overtake would be on a button and hotlap would only be available in Quali with party mode. Its obviously very complex to implement but would be incredible.

Right now, it just seems to be choosing the level of power that the hybrid delivers when you are on throttle, as if setting 1 is 100hp, 2 is 200hp and so on.

Edited by FatalMistake465
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Posted (edited)

I don't know how other games cope with this, but the problem with controller players is the lack of usable buttons.

 

My proposal would be the sequent:

  • ERS selectable modes: Low - Medium - High - Hotlap
  • Overtake mode: keep the ERS+ button pressed (better if the button can be customizable)

What do you guys think?

Edited by D4rio

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23 hours ago, martbloke said:

Wow I see by the number of disagrees my comment got that the majority opinion is wanting something less manual with an overtake button. That's fair enough as everybody's allowed their opinion. I don't mind the idea, I just prefer the current design. If a more automatic system is implemented then it won't bother me as everyone's got the same game, so we'll see if Codies take note.

The current design would be nice if it wasn't meant to simulate something that actually exists in real life. Since it is, realism takes priority over adding an extra layer of difficulty to the game.

 

12 hours ago, Dunky1980 said:

I personally don't think codemasters considered that people would be changing the ERS through every corner. The same problem with the fuel that they had on the previous games. A driver isn't using low fuel in a corner then turning up the high on a straight. The whole system is broken.

I am absolutely sure that they did consider it because changing the fuel mix repeatedly in and out of every corner was a staple of league racing since the start of the series.

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I think the actual modes are not the best choice to solve ERS management, but i have normaly no problems. I never changed ERS or fuel more than twice per lap. I would prefer the choice with different engine modes for dry, wet conditions and a overtake button.

Fuel mode i think is easy. If i have underfueled the car at race start i drive the first two laps in standard and maybe rich on long straights. If all is sorted i witch back to lean to safe fuel for the complete race.

For ERS managment i mostly use Medium for nearly the complete lap. In some slow parts of track i use low to charge the battery and on long straights i use High. Overtake will be only used for what it's named and Hotlap only in Qualifying or a good inlap before pit stop.

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37 minutes ago, Coffer said:

The current design would be nice if it wasn't meant to simulate something that actually exists in real life. Since it is, realism takes priority over adding an extra layer of difficulty to the game.

 

I am absolutely sure that they did consider it because changing the fuel mix repeatedly in and out of every corner was a staple of league racing since the start of the series

But it's still a stupid idea. Having to change your fuel is unrealistic on every corner. Going from a lean fuel mix to a high fuel mix wouldn't happen so quickly. I believe it was more thought of being used by a lap by lap basis like real life and not by corner by corner.

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3 minutes ago, Dunky1980 said:

But it's still a stupid idea. Having to change your fuel is unrealistic on every corner. Going from a lean fuel mix to a high fuel mix wouldn't happen so quickly. I believe it was more thought of being used by a lap by lap basis like real life and not by corner by corner.

That's my point. The system in its current format has no place within the series. What's worse is that the system made it into the series in its current format despite the fact that CM couldn't even solve the issue of people changing the fuel mixture on a corner-by-corner basis.

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If anyone's wondering how simple it actually is irl..

The list of strat modes in the Mercedes. A mode that's used for purely recharging, a quali mode, and then three race modes -- one that targets low HYS usage for recharging, one that targets high HYS usage for attacking and a standard mode that aims to sustain a charge over many laps. There are three versions of these each for what we could like to fuel mixture.

The modes are mapped so the drivers don't need to change every corner, and instead just set it if they need to charge the battery more or attack more... it's a lot simpler than it is in game.

KAL2TX9.png

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The following video has some conflicting information on how often drivers change ERS mode during a race. Strategy director from Mercedes says that Hamilton and Bottas were messing with the energy management on every corner when they were battling for position at Silverstone.

 

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On 7/13/2019 at 10:19 AM, martbloke said:

I sincerely hope ERS does not change from what it is. It doesn't match real life correct, but the way it has been done puts the control to the user and adds a further element of strategy and skill to the game that just having an overtake button would not really do IMO. This is 1 of the non-realistic features that I feel Codies have done right.

I'll use my "ERS strategy" from Australia as an example of how bloody rigorous the system is in its current state:

 

Exiting the last corner - change fuel to rich, cycle ERS from none to low-med-high-overtake, activate DRS

Approaching the first corner - drop ERS from overtake to high

Exiting first/second corner - increase ERS to overtake, activate DRS

Approaching Turn 3 - drop fuel mixture to standard or lean, cycle ERS from overtake to high-med-low-none

Exiting Turn 4 - increase fuel to standard if lean, increase ERS from none to low.

Exiting Turns 5&6 - increase ERS to med

Exiting Turns 7&8 - increase fuel to rich, increase ERS to high

Exiting turns 9&10 - increase ERS to overtake, activate DRS

Entering Turn 11 - drop fuel to standard or lean, cycle down ERS from overtake to high-med-low-none

Rinse and repeat.

 

To sum up, in 85 seconds or so I changed my fuel settings 5 times, changed my ERS settings 9 times (needing 17 button presses to change the settings, plus scrolling between fuel and ERS), and activated DRS 3 times. That's about 30 button presses, i.e. using the MFD panel every 2.5 seconds on average per lap. That's just to keep the car accelerating nicely. Add changing brake bias 3-4 times per lap. Then, if you drive in cockpit cam you have no mirrors whatsoever, so during all this I still need to use buttons to look around, too. You might also need to check out some temperatures of tires, brakes, and engine, tell Jeff to shut the **** up and still drive a car. Overall I'm getting closer to 50 steering wheel button presses in a single lap of Australia. Simply ridiculous.

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