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FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE ESPAÑA PIRELLI 2014

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You better don't put up your hopes for this season anymore Seb. ;)

You told me that mid way through 2012 ;P If a gap can be built up in half a season, it can also be closed down in half a season. The realistic aim this season is race wins, for sure, and Mercedes are heavy favourites. 

But 0.54 a lap isn't much relative to this season so far, especially as for the last 15-20 laps Ricciardo had no reason to push either. That's a presumption of course, and Mercedes will always have their party trick of the separated turbo in the engine, but with maximum power output available from Canada I believe there's reason for at least slight optimism it won't be all the year of the Merc. 

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Yes, but we're talking about Catalunya, a circuit which should favour RB's design philosophy. There was so much talk before that race about how they would start beating Mercedes and how they would get on top with all the updates on their car. All that talking about how much better RB's chassis is compared to even Mercedes, and yet the gap is still more than half a second in race trim. With the winning driver not being comfortable with the balance of the car throughout the whole race.

It's over for this season, there's no way RB will get close to Mercedes in the championship.


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The only set of people getting excited about Red Bull being anywhere near beating Mercedes this weekend were the press. It doesn't take much to work out that Red Bull aren't going to wipe out a 1-2 second deficit in three weeks, no matter how amazing they are. Aside from that it's still fairly evident a lot of the Red Bull performance deficit lies on Renault's side of things. The same Renault engine manufacturer who said they were a few months behind when they got to Australia, so in effect they are really only at the point they'd wished to be at the start of the season now. 

I'm not saying they'll win the championship, or even fully catch Mercedes, but there is potential there. They have the biggest resources, the most relentless design development team, and the biggest to gain in terms of engine performance. 

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I don't buy that Renault-thingy anymore. Of course, Mercedes has build the best engines for this year but some people at Red Bull are making it too easy for themselves by putting all the blame on Renault.

Complaining about topspeed for example: Fun fact, if you look at the topspeed of Toro Rosso and Caterham in the last couple of races, you'll see that there's more potential in this area for all Renault engines (especially for their works team).

The question remains: Why do RB feel like they need to run as much downforce as they do - compromising their topspeed - if they feel they've got the best chassis anyway?


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VetteIfan said:
The only set of people getting excited about Red Bull being anywhere near beating Mercedes this weekend were the press. It doesn't take much to work out that Red Bull aren't going to wipe out a 1-2 second deficit in three weeks, no matter how amazing they are. Aside from that it's still fairly evident a lot of the Red Bull performance deficit lies on Renault's side of things. The same Renault engine manufacturer who said they were a few months behind when they got to Australia, so in effect they are really only at the point they'd wished to be at the start of the season now. 

I'm not saying they'll win the championship, or even fully catch Mercedes, but there is potential there. They have the biggest resources, the most relentless design development team, and the biggest to gain in terms of engine performance. 
And Adrian Newey ....

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Vettel turned into a bad boy that race taking risky moves to overtake into a corner and not caring if he makes it or not.

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Well I haven't been able to watch the full race as I was out all day yesterday, so I've only watched 15 minute highlights, but it looks like the first half was pretty dull and then it came alive in the last part.

I'll be honest, I'm really pleased to see Lewis winning as he's always been my favourite driver, and I am pretty confident he will win the championship this season. For Rosberg, well I reckon his confidence is being knocked a lot now. That's 4 races in a row he has finished 2nd to Lewis, and lets be honest, if Lewis' car didn't break down at Australia then Rosberg probably would have finished 2nd to him again there. Also, after Bahrain and Spain Lewis has said Nico was faster and that he wasn't happy with his performance. And yet he still beat him. Rosberg won't come back from this, I'm sure.

Great to see Ricciardo on the podium, and actually keeping it this time! Great job by Vettel too, a really good drive, and also by Bottas. Outperforming Massa again. Really good stuff.

Disappointing from McLaren. The worst of the Mercedes powered teams. Also, I believe Button said something along the lines of 'Magnussen being a rookie means we aren't as good as where we could possibly be. His lack of experience isn't good for the team'. Sorry JB, but what a load of bollocks! You're still in the team so why aren't you getting the car where it should be? Everyone was a rookie once. I think Jenson has never been great at setting up the car. When he does set it up well, he does it really well and he can do great things, but too often he can't set it up right, in my opinion.

And Maldonado was being Maldonado of course, crashing again. Why don't they just give him 8 penalty points and give him the race ban now. I don't get him because he can be so fast and so good (just look at some 2012 performances like in Spain and Singapore) yet he can then cause the most stupid incidents. 

Finally, Max Chilton keeps up his finishing record. I haven't watched any race debriefs on Sky yet but no doubt they would have mentioned that.

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Red Bull need to use less downforce. Now Vettel cannot lead from the front so he needs to overtake, and all that downforce made it more difficult then it needed to be in Spain. I hope that in Monaco a Red Bull takes pole, preferably Vettel for me, but either will do. That way, the race will be really good to watch.

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AMS97KRR said:
Red Bull need to use less downforce. Now Vettel cannot lead from the front so he needs to overtake, and all that downforce made it more difficult then it needed to be in Spain. I hope that in Monaco a Red Bull takes pole, preferably Vettel for me, but either will do. That way, the race will be really good to watch.
I'm disagreeing without pressing the disagree button :p 

I kinda hope Vettel has another weekend like Spain, that'll make it really good to watch for me ;) 
Vettelfan was saying before that it looks like Red Bull have cut the gap to Merc on race pace, but personally I disagree. There's a lot of corners at Spain and few proper straights, so I'd say that helped Red Bull look closer to Merc for that race. They'll probably look even closer at Monaco, but Canada, Austria and GB... I can see Merc being 2 seconds a lap faster again.

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AMS97KRR said:
Red Bull need to use less downforce. Now Vettel cannot lead from the front so he needs to overtake, and all that downforce made it more difficult then it needed to be in Spain. I hope that in Monaco a Red Bull takes pole, preferably Vettel for me, but either will do. That way, the race will be really good to watch.
I'm disagreeing without pressing the disagree button :p 

I kinda hope Vettel has another weekend like Spain, that'll make it really good to watch for me ;) 
Vettelfan was saying before that it looks like Red Bull have cut the gap to Merc on race pace, but personally I disagree. There's a lot of corners at Spain and few proper straights, so I'd say that helped Red Bull look closer to Merc for that race. They'll probably look even closer at Monaco, but Canada, Austria and GB... I can see Merc being 2 seconds a lap faster again.
Have to agree with that. Come those 3 circuits (and to an extent, Hockenheim), RBR and Ferrari will fall back, and SFI and Williams will come back to the fore. Monaco meanwhile will be decided on who gets the cleanest qually lap, and then will be and absolute crash-fest, because of more power/less grip. I'm tempted on actually putting Chilton in my top 10 for the predictor.

Also, is it too early to place bets on how many times Maldonado will wipe-out over the weekend?

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AMS97KRR said:
Red Bull need to use less downforce. Now Vettel cannot lead from the front so he needs to overtake, and all that downforce made it more difficult then it needed to be in Spain. I hope that in Monaco a Red Bull takes pole, preferably Vettel for me, but either will do. That way, the race will be really good to watch.
I'm disagreeing without pressing the disagree button :p 

I kinda hope Vettel has another weekend like Spain, that'll make it really good to watch for me ;) 
Vettelfan was saying before that it looks like Red Bull have cut the gap to Merc on race pace, but personally I disagree. There's a lot of corners at Spain and few proper straights, so I'd say that helped Red Bull look closer to Merc for that race. They'll probably look even closer at Monaco, but Canada, Austria and GB... I can see Merc being 2 seconds a lap faster again.
Oh yeah without a doubt Red Bull are still miles off. Vettel cannot have another weekend like Spain, gaining 11 positions isn't really possible in Monaco, unless you have people in front with problems and accidents. 

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I'm disagreeing without pressing the disagree button :p 

I kinda hope Vettel has another weekend like Spain, that'll make it really good to watch for me ;) 
Vettelfan was saying before that it looks like Red Bull have cut the gap to Merc on race pace, but personally I disagree. There's a lot of corners at Spain and few proper straights, so I'd say that helped Red Bull look closer to Merc for that race. They'll probably look even closer at Monaco, but Canada, Austria and GB... I can see Merc being 2 seconds a lap faster again.
Well look at it this way. Melbourne - not a massively power dependent track - Ricciardo finished 25 seconds behind Rosberg. Similar enough to the 28 seconds he lost in Spain over 52 of the laps. In Melbourne this gap was created with Rosberg cruising and Ricciardo pushing to the maximum, and as it turned out an illegal car in fact. 

In Spain that gap was as I say similar, but Mercedes were going for it all race to beat each other, while Ricciardo was the one more likely to be cruising for at least the last 15 or so laps with nothing to gain in front or lose behind. That, in my view at least, represents improvement, at two circuits not really power dependent. 

As far as upcoming circuits go Red Bull won't have an issue at Canada, in terms of mixing it for the top 5 places. It's only got one really long straight, most of the other parts of full throttle zones are more dependent on how you get off the corner before, where the Bull's are mighty. Don't believe me, just look at their qualifying record there over the past 3 years. 2012 I actually seem to remember Alonso having a top speed 4kph quicker (thanks Mike) than Vettel's in the speed trap in S3, but that's where Vettel made all his time. Can't find the speed trap files on the FIA website to specify that though unfortunately. 

And from then on Renault engines are going to be running at 100% power - where apparently we're only going to be looking at a 10-20bhp difference between them and Mercedes. Mercedes are going to have their advantage of the split turbo as I said, but I'm just trying to drum up some optimism who don't want to see 19 Mercedes wins this season 
:P

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Ah okay cheers Mike. My memory was a little off on that one :-\" But you still get the idea. Canada isn't all about straight line speed. Traction is the key aspect.

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I still think Canada is far too late to think of a title charge for Red Bull/Vettel. Vettel is already 55 points behind Hamilton and 52 behind Rosberg. I mean 2012 was a very good comeback, I thought it was all over at one point, but he did have a certain element of luck that year as well as skill. 

Guess we'll see, but even if Renault sort it out and Red Bull are fastest, I don't see them winning either title.

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I don't believe they have either @JensonBottom. Hamilton and Rosberg were pushing each other in spain, but I really don't think they'd have been running their engines at 100% when they know they have an advantage anyway. Running them full tilt would introduce a higher likelihood of a failure, and with the gap they could still build up why increase that risk?

As for traction, is the Merc not either as good as or better than the Red Bull this year? If the Red Bull apparently has better aero and has better traction, then where are Merc gaining such a large advantage? And don't say the engine, if you look at the speed trap from Spain the top 2 cars are Renault powered. They may be Toro Rosso, but if they can get that speed on the straight then surely Red Bull can? Even if they have to drop a bit of downforce.

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I don't believe they have either @JensonBottom. Hamilton and Rosberg were pushing each other in spain, but I really don't think they'd have been running their engines at 100% when they know they have an advantage anyway. Running them full tilt would introduce a higher likelihood of a failure, and with the gap they could still build up why increase that risk?

As for traction, is the Merc not either as good as or better than the Red Bull this year? If the Red Bull apparently has better aero and has better traction, then where are Merc gaining such a large advantage? And don't say the engine, if you look at the speed trap from Spain the top 2 cars are Renault powered. They may be Toro Rosso, but if they can get that speed on the straight then surely Red Bull can? Even if they have to drop a bit of downforce.
Have you seen the Mercedes engine cars accelerate off the line? They left everyone else for dead. Their car is more powerful so they have the top speed but can also run a lot of aero on top of that unlike Toro Rosso.

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I was replying to Vettelfan saying the Red Bulls are mighty getting out of corners bud. I know the Mercs are brilliant off the line :p

Well, one of them at least ;)

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I was surprised at Kimi's reaction when Pinkham questioned him after the race, maybe Alonso is getting to him.

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