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AI in the wet - all circuits

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Thanks for thinking that I have a ego @ChasteWandbut I don't. Having my degree removed is not really. I know what I know what I've. AI in the gaming world is not in it's infancy. It's just a new model of AI. Just as programming advanced so has AI. I've already seen the thread on the same matter with the AI being to fast in the in Project Cars 2. It's been fixed from my understanding. Me showing what I'm using to test with is key variable along with my skills. SO that bring in to many other variables into the matter. In turn Like I said many post before. More people get in on the testing instead of the yapping things will get cleared. You all feel that there's a problem. Then get to testing instead of yapping like I stated before and the issue will be solved faster. You all want to work as a community, but you don't. Go figure. You all have done more arguing with me than getting off your lazy butts and doing some testing. And I'm problem. I'm the one with an ego. LOL Yeah right.    

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Striker_703 said:

Thanks for thinking that I have a ego @ChasteWandbut I don't. Having my degree removed is not really. I know what I know what I've. AI in the gaming world is not in it's infancy. It's just a new model of AI. Just as programming advanced so has AI. I've already seen the thread on the same matter with the AI being to fast in the in Project Cars 2. It's been fixed from my understanding. Me showing what I'm using to test with is key variable along with my skills. SO that bring in to many other variables into the matter. In turn Like I said many post before. More people get in on the testing instead of the yapping things will get cleared. You all feel that there's a problem. Then get to testing instead of yapping like I stated before and the issue will be solved faster. You all want to work as a community, but you don't. Go figure. You all have done more arguing with me than getting off your lazy butts and doing some testing. And I'm problem. I'm the one with an ego. LOL Yeah right.    

Well lets be honest, you basically refused to accept your conclusion was wrong.

You only ever said people should test when no one agreed with you or when people told you your testing method was flawed but even then you can't just say people should test.

You need vast numbers with a wide range of abilities covering every single AI level to make sure there isn't a glitch.

You need to put together a precise  test not just dictate people go off and do their own thing.

How about you find all the people you need to cover every AI level which as someone already pointed out would probably be in excess of 1000 to 1500 people.

Asking people in this thread to merely test again will prove nothing. There just aren't enough numbers for a conclusive result.

 

Edited by SIMRACER123
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Posted (edited)

Get to testing and stop yapping @SIMRACER123. You're only saying my testing is flawed due to you are to lazy to do it yourself. That goes for everyone that thinks the same. Come get to it man. You're the main one though. I had you blocked for a reason silly. No one is doing a dang thing besides running their trap and saying this and that. Get to testing guys. Not hard. I stated this main post ago. Geeze. You all got something, putting in your two cents but you can't get off your tales do to any testing. Come on. If you can't do anything just stop. Really. Combine your data and get to the bottom of it. That's what engineers and programmers do. Oh wait. Never mind. 

Edited by Striker_703
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3 minutes ago, Striker_703 said:

Get to testing and stop yapping @SIMRACER123. You're only saying my testing is flawed due to you are to lazy to do it yourself. Come get to it man. You're the main one. I had you blocked for a reason silly. No one is doing a dang thing besides running their trap and saying this and that. Get to testing guys. Not hard. I stated this main post ago. Geeze.  

Ok i tested level 101 earlier.

I was slower by 8 tenths in the wet and 6 tenths on inters than the AI at Silverstone.

Obviously this isnt an overpowered AI circuit in the dry.

Now what does that tell you in your conclusion?

That your definitive conclusion is not so conclusive? 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

Ok i tested level 101 earlier.

I was slower by 8 tenths in the wet and 6 tenths on inters than the AI at Silverstone.

Obviously this isnt an overpowered AI circuit in the dry.

Now what does that tell you in your conclusion?

That your definitive conclusion is not so conclusive? 

 

Finally you tested something. Are you on a wheel or pad? Are you using any assist? Variables man. Have you lowered the AI level to see where you can keep up in the wet? I'm a wheel driver. The only wheel driver that has given any information, any data. any video. Come on. You want this salved? Get at. That includes everyone that than ran their trap. Get to it. Put in your input of data and video. Come on. You want to be a community and solve a problem? Then flipping act like! And you wounder why I called you a troll @SIMRACER123and BLOCKED YOU. I did you a favor bu unblocking you.  

Edited by Striker_703

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Posted (edited)

Okay, THAT'S IT!.

I can't stand it any longer....

Sincere apologies to all, but I'm at my wits end with this.

I'm not one to "BIG NOTE", but one chap here does it ALL the time, ...and he continues to be condescending to others here, and now it's getting ridiculous.

I hate to say it, ..but I have two (2) Degrees, from two (2) different Universities, and a person of your stature with one (1) Degree should at least be able to spell.

The logic behind my (this) post will be revealed in bold below.

A Degree Qualified person will definitely know the difference between there, they're and their. Or two, to, and too. And what is it with your Footer Brag Biography?

Your favourite consul racer.... WHAT? ...Your favourite "distinguished member of government" racer???? Did you mean to say console, as in XBOX or PlayStation???

And if you really love Touring Car games (as per your Footer Bio) you'll know that there is no such thing as TOCO Touring Cars. *** is that? Did you mean TOCA Touring Cars?

These simple grammatical oversights, and your posts, have lost me.

You now hold absolutely no credibility with me.

I really appreciate all of the time & effort that you've devoted to your testing. However, it seems flawed in someway, because in career mode the AI kicks-arse in the Wet, plain & simple. Or, after 20+ years as a console F1 racer, I truly am a pathetically slow F1 Gamer in the wet. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Marty_K_
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I'm sick of it as well @Marty_K_. From the jump everyone wanted to debunk my test results without giving their own besides words. No one shared any video of them racing against the AI and losing. No bothered to do any testing in any other AI level besides the one they previously set. Nothing. You can't work as a community to solve a problem if you just give words. I gave my data, and shared my streams. I was able able to keep up with the AI on a wheel for that matter. You all can go watch it. Please. But if you all want to solve a problem that you see then work together and get it done. instead of trying to debunk my testing. Why not use it. Really. Come on. You have a wheeled driver that was able to keep up with the AI and he raised it 10 point and done it again. Data people. Oh BOY.    

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Posted (edited)

The biggest thing is that the AI are SUPER-overpowered in the wet atm and it is completely pointless to even try wet sessions in career mode. Better to just save the car and move on when it is gonna be dry again.. I am using medium traction, too, though but I doubt it would make any difference turning it completely off (needs to be tested by an elite racer in my opinion maybe) as the AI drive perfect laps after perfect laps in the wet and perfect braking + perfect corner entries and perfect corner exits...No way any decent player can match that unless you are some kind of Esports god or something.

Another solid point I have is: This kind of AI wet weather SUPER pace issue did not exist in previous Codies F1 titles (2018, 2017, 2016...etc). I know the AI were slow in the wet before v1.05 but meh c'mon this is absolutely overkill now. I have lost motivation to play career mode somewhat because of this. Personally I would not care much if the AI are a bit slower in the wet. If we only have 2 options A) a bit too slow or B) impossible (like now), which one would you choose...Of course the balanced possibility would be the best and I hope Codemasters can achieve that in the coming weeks.

Edit: I am driving with 97-103 AI level (usually 100+).

Edited by ZTheLightningZ

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38 minutes ago, Striker_703 said:

Finally you tested something. Are you on a wheel or pad? Are you using any assist? Variables man. Have you lowered the AI level to see where you can keep up in the wet? I'm a wheel driver. The only wheel driver that has given any information, any data. any video. Come on. You want this salved? Get at. That includes everyone that than ran their trap. Get to it. Put in your input of data and video. Come on. You want to be a community and solve a problem? Then flipping act like! And you wounder why I called you a troll @SIMRACER123and BLOCKED YOU. I did you a favor bu unblocking you.  

See here's my issue.

I stopped reading the rest of your post as soon as you started asking me whether i was using a wheel or assists because you say they are variables.

This is exactly what i have said to you from the outset?

There are too many variables for you to have done a one person test and conclusively say you were right.

You have essentially just disproved your own conclusion so can we finally agree you are wrong? 

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This is my last post on this matter about solving this issue as a Community. First off I don’t think any of you really understands the meaning of COMMUNITY as I do. As a community you work together, by one person or a group. Someone raise an issue that needs to be looked at. People joined the conversion and gave what their thoughts. Words. ‘OK’ A NEW member of the Community comes across this post and reads it. And thinks ‘OK I can help’ This NEW member is WILLING to help solve a problem. Not give words. That member does a test and gives their thoughts along with VIDEO and so on. No one bothers to THINK. ‘We have member on the wheel that’s able to keep pace with the AI in adverse conditions, what can I ‘We’ LEARN? What information can we give into this test?’ Instead. Everyone said this and that and so on. Look at all the post. The facts are there. And you think I have the EGO, or I’m the TROLL? True members of a community would have jumped on this a ran with it! Putting in as much information and data into the discussion. So again. You all don’t know or understand the meaning of being apart of a COMMUNITY. You all have a wonderful day.     

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Striker_703 said:

This is my last post on this matter about solving this issue as a Community. First off I don’t think any of you really understands the meaning of COMMUNITY as I do. As a community you work together, by one person or a group. Someone raise an issue that needs to be looked at. People joined the conversion and gave what their thoughts. Words. ‘OK’ A NEW member of the Community comes across this post and reads it. And thinks ‘OK I can help’ This NEW member is WILLING to help solve a problem. Not give words. That member does a test and gives their thoughts along with VIDEO and so on. No one bothers to THINK. ‘We have member on the wheel that’s able to keep pace with the AI in adverse conditions, what can I ‘We’ LEARN? What information can we give into this test?’ Instead. Everyone said this and that and so on. Look at all the post. The facts are there. And you think I have the EGO, or I’m the TROLL? True members of a community would have jumped on this a ran with it! Putting in as much information and data into the discussion. So again. You all don’t know or understand the meaning of being apart of a COMMUNITY. You all have a wonderful day.     

But your not working together if you say this is the result and i am right with no consideration that your wrong  ?

Edited by SIMRACER123

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I just did Championship mode race at Austria, 50%, ai 104. 
wet after lap 1, inters, final 10 laps dry. 
 

No real difference in pace from the AI. 

Ai wet or dry is a bit too flawless on traction out of opened corners compared to their in corner speed. 
I’d say roughly 0.5-1 metre better at my 104 level. This is on all tracks. 
This is IMO what needs to me adjusted. 

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1 hour ago, KrazyLurt said:

I just did Championship mode race at Austria, 50%, ai 104. 
wet after lap 1, inters, final 10 laps dry. 
 

No real difference in pace from the AI. 

Ai wet or dry is a bit too flawless on traction out of opened corners compared to their in corner speed. 
I’d say roughly 0.5-1 metre better at my 104 level. This is on all tracks. 
This is IMO what needs to me adjusted. 

The same championship at Germany, inters last 14 laps. P2, P3 ran same speed as me before and after roughly. I increased the gap from 2 seconds to 3

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6 hours ago, Striker_703 said:

Thanks for thinking that I have a ego @ChasteWandbut I don't. Having my degree removed is not really. I know what I know what I've. AI in the gaming world is not in it's infancy. It's just a new model of AI. Just as programming advanced so has AI. I've already seen the thread on the same matter with the AI being to fast in the in Project Cars 2. It's been fixed from my understanding. Me showing what I'm using to test with is key variable along with my skills. SO that bring in to many other variables into the matter. In turn Like I said many post before. More people get in on the testing instead of the yapping things will get cleared. You all feel that there's a problem. Then get to testing instead of yapping like I stated before and the issue will be solved faster. You all want to work as a community, but you don't. Go figure. You all have done more arguing with me than getting off your lazy butts and doing some testing. And I'm problem. I'm the one with an ego. LOL Yeah right.    

Ok you got me! Where do I start?

You say: 'Having my degree removed is not really. I know what I know what I've.'

What does this mean? The words are in English but they have no meaning in this combination, please explain.

If you look at the evolution of AI and compare it to the evolution of species on planet earth, what species would be comparable? A thought experiment if you like. I would be interested to where you think AI sit on that scale.

Have a look at this, you may find it interesting...

On to Project Cars 2, a seriously good simulator with not so good AI. There are many ways I feel that the codemasters AI is superior, however according to the respective forums, both suffer from unbalanced AI in varying track conditions. My opinion is that it stems from different physics models being used by player and AI. Because of the resources consumed by the player's very detailed physics model in PC1/2 the AI has to be dumbed down. Codemasters player's physics model is very poor in comparison but that leaves headroom not only for the AI but also the graphics. Both are better than in PC1/2. I've put more time into PC1/2 than in the all the F1 titles put together The cars are just stunning to drive, for me it's too frustrating to race against the AI, however unparalleled for hotlapping. Trust me when I say the AI in both PC1/2 remain unbalanced when in varying conditions. Try to follow an AI car through a large puddle and you will instantly see the difference in physics between player and AI, and hence the imbalance. The technology just doesn't exist yet and I doubt it will for many a year to come. Having said all that, I do think codemasters have a reasonable chance of getting it right, due to the headroom granted by the simcade physics model of the player.

As a final point on AI, I don't think there is truly any real intelligence in computer games, objects are programmed to give the appearance of intelligent behaviour. It is more like stimulus/response, a reflex action rather than any ability to think. A conditional, of which there are many in AI code. Rules to be followed, not reasoned actions.

 

You say: 'Me showing what I'm using to test with is key variable along with my skills. SO that bring in to many other variables into the matter.'

Again please explain your meaning, because I am at a loss.

Please remind me striker where I said I had a problem with the AI being too fast, likewise go have a long hard look at my posts in this thread to see why I 'yap' rather than test. You too can be the recipient of a golden dollar just like Worntoathread if you can answer correctly!

As a community member I have attempted to help you with your testing and make it more meaningful. In my opinion it would appear you have tried to use your test to not only to prove that there is no problem, but also to belittle others virtual driving skills, big up your own, and show you are more highly educated and know more about AI than anyone else on the forum. Pretty much the definition of egotism.

I have complimented you on both your virtual driving skills and your willingness to test the premise of the thread. I have also stated my opinion clearly and politely. If my posts were argumentative or offensive I believe they would have been removed by a moderator.

Every human being has an ego, unless that is, you have attained buddhahood.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

For anyone visiting this thread seeking information as to whether the AI are overpowered or not.

For the sake of clarity and avoidance of misinformation, @Striker_703 has admitted on a separate thread that he has now increased his AI level by 5 points ( the equivalent of approximately one second a lap in AI speed )

See thread about working out your correct AI level.

This explains why he had no issue keeping pace with the AI in the wet as he was driving against AI signifcantly below his own ability so you need to keep this in mind and draw your own conclusions about his "test".

 

Edited by SIMRACER123

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15 hours ago, SIMRACER123 said:

For anyone visiting this thread seeking information as to whether the AI are overpowered or not.

For the sake of clarity and avoidance of misinformation, @Striker_703 has admitted on a separate thread that he has now increased his AI level by 5 points ( the equivalent of approximately one second a lap in AI speed )

See thread about working out your correct AI level.

This explains why he had no issue keeping pace with the AI in the wet as he was driving against AI signifcantly below his his own ability so you need to keep this in mind and draw your own conclusions about his "test".

 

True.

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Posted (edited)

...one thing I HAVE to say, is to @Striker_703

Despite all that has been said here. ...I have no right to offer a Character Assassination to you here on this forum. Sorry mate; this should never happen.

I still don't like your condescending posts, or the lack of grammar, but those are not for me to get upset about, and to respond inappropriately.

Apologies.

Edited by Marty_K_

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Now I'm in Canada in my Carreer mode S02, and I have to mention that this will be my 3rd consecutive wet weather qualifying session and counting.... 🙂 Someone at CM really wants me to test the AI pace in the rain on Saturdays 🙂

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Posted (edited)

Yes indeed I raised the AI five points. In order to challenge myself to become a faster driver. Once I got comfortable with the characteristics of the simulation model and how I'm setting up the car where I'm as well comfortable I raised the AI from 80, to 90 and now 95. During the find your AI level test I noticed I was keeping pace and in some cases out pacing the AI. So to challenge myself I raised it. What wrong with that? You all never challenged yourselves? 

@Marty_K_I speak and type how I do. If you don't like. TOUGH!! 

How can you get faster if you can't challenge yourself? How can you get better in anything? Hmmm 

Edited by Striker_703
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Posted (edited)

@Striker_703 Oh come on.. only a week ago, you said, and I quote: 

"OK. Everyone run your test at the AI that you're comfortable in both the dry at wet. Having it higher or lower depending on the conditions is not giving a fair test. I don't you understand AI. I do, I'm a software engineer"

And now you're saying you were running 15(!) clicks below your actual level in your own tests?.. All while accusing everyone else of being "just too slow".

I don't think I need to add anything else..

 

Edited by Worntoathread
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Striker_703 said:

How can you get faster if you can't challenge yourself?

I'm not going to get into the colossal disaster that is the rest of this conversation, but there's a very simple answer to this, one that applies to racing more than most other things in life: by making everything be second nature to you. The less you think about your actions, the more time and energy you have to invest into not making mistakes and staying at a consistently high level. This is exactly how Senna and especially Schumacher thrived, and it's why they both also heavily pioneered the idea of making yourself as physically fit as possible.

Learning the moves that you need to perfect (aka "challenging yourself") is only the first and most trivial step. Anyone with two brain cells can try different things. What matters is being able to put those into practice every single time without even thinking about them and doing them with a high success rate, like Hakkinen did with his crazy corner entry technique.

Edited by Coffer
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2 hours ago, Worntoathread said:

@Striker_703 Oh come on.. only a week ago, you said, and I quote: 

"OK. Everyone run your test at the AI that you're comfortable in both the dry at wet. Having it higher or lower depending on the conditions is not giving a fair test. I don't you understand AI. I do, I'm a software engineer"

And now you're saying you were running 15(!) clicks below your actual level in your own tests?.. All while accusing everyone else of being "just too slow".

I don't think I need to add anything else..

 

Hmmm? Ok so, you took the time to pick through I typed on this thread, mainly within the AI area. Question. Did you take the time to watch the whole test or all of them and pay attention to what I was saying? And further more, I never said or stated anyone was slow in the wet. I said that they didn't have the skills to run in the wet, which is a BIG difference. Ummm.... Did I forget anything? 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Striker_703 said:

I never said or stated anyone was slow in the wet. I said that they didn't have the skills to run in the wet, which is a BIG difference. Ummm.... Did I forget anything? 

You did forget something, your own arguments apparently:

"I'll test it at where I'm comfortable at. I don't run the same AI setting as you. You guys are SLOW in the rain period. I'm going to test it for you guys and prove to you once again the AI is fine"

But sure, BIG difference..

Surely you must see how your test means nothing if the AI level was over a second too slow for your potential speed. The way to test this is by finding an AI level that you can JUST beat with a perfect lap in the dry, and then use that same level in a wet qualifying session. Putting it at a 'comfortable' level in a practice session is about as effective as testing top speeds with no ERS on lean mix.

Edited by Worntoathread
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Oh I did forget something, thanks for clearing that up. I'm gathering you didn't watch based on you last paragraph. I put the AI at a comfortable level that I could keep pace with. If you would have watched any of the streams you would know this and when I raised the AI. Which brings up the point of me raising the AI level again another five points.  I noticed after the at the AI level of 80% which I was comfortable with at the time I was keeping pace, so I raised it ten points ran more test. Kept pace and so. I done the find your AI level. Seen I was keeping pace so I raised it fine points to challenge myself. The test only shows that I have the skills to run in the wet really at level 80 at one time and 90. Only time will tell how I get along at level 95. Zoom Zoom 

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