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Is FFB ever going to get further refinement/improvements

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Yes, we request an aid, to compensate missing forces irl felt by our butt. This is how all sim-titles do.

And second thing, In my mondeo, I can feel loosing front traction on steering wheel: during acceleration as well as during breaking. On dry.

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Posted (edited)

I think the main problem with the FFB is that it is unbalanced and uneven across the game.

All the tyre slip/suspension/road noise effects are there and working to varying degrees for me depending on location.

The effects on Australia for example are overly exagerated compared to similar terrain at other locations.

It's also obvious on the tarmac sections in Australia compared to the tarmac in other places like Germany.

Which means you can't set it and forget it because you want a bit more feel in Spain perhaps and a bit less in Australia.

Please make it more balanced so I don't have to keep adjusting it every time I change location.

 

 

Edited by EvilCee
Speiling mistoke
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21 hours ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

Yes, we request an aid, to compensate missing forces irl felt by our butt. This is how all sim-titles do.

And second thing, In my mondeo, I can feel loosing front traction on steering wheel: during acceleration as well as during breaking. On dry.

That's ok, but if you are asking for an aid (and I don't necessarily disagree), it should be something that doesn't elicit rage if the company doesn't add it.  Certainly at minimum an aid should not be used to pollute a realistic function for people who only require the realistic function (and for example might have motion rigs or don't need the effect).

 

As for the mondeo, mmm, yeah sure you do, I think you feel it through G forces and your ears.   And there are different types of "loss of grip".

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No, I can feel it on steering wheel. But this car is equipped in hydro-electric power steering, not electric one. Maybe this makes difference.

 

About ffb: Aid or not it is considered mandatory since most of simracers don't have motion rigs. Without it you cannot feel properly what happens to a car. This is why all sim developers adds it by default. Since this I would be careful to call it extras.

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Posted (edited)

I understand your point on all Sims having the aid (maybe this is true, who has really objectively assessed all sims, including rFactor, and iRacing for this effect).  But Codemasters should be allowed to provide a normal feedback system with an option for extras.  And if they don't provide the extra , they do kind of have a right even if some % of the buyers will complain about it.  It will be their decision if they opt for more pure realism.  It's the same as if they didn't provide a low damage option, just like some sims don't provide this option because it's not realistic.

 

Edit: I don't believe that you feel a single wheel locking in your steering in anything but a laterally loaded up car. Sorry.

Edited by bn880

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I've been following the whining about the ffb since release and it's clear as daylight that some people are simply incapable of understanding that the devs have opted for a very natural, realistic ffb. That clearly is not what they wanted and consequently the shouting has subsequently derailed the ffb completely.

In other words words, the ffb has gotten worse with each patch, and all because a few loudmouths can't comprehend that you can't just keep piling effect upon effect, upon effect and expect a cohesive experience that works. For example, on release the ffb had a very pleasant, smooth quality that felt just like in a real car, with a very nice feel for for seemed like tyre flex and tyres digging into the surfaces. But no, the wheel didn't vibrate,,or something, so the devs went back to work and added some fake stone effects to the surfaces, which is effectively a mesh that now interferes with the tyre flex and soft surface feel. Hence a great effect that once worked well is now broken. 

Its a sad state of affairs when a few loudmouths can ruin things for the quiet ones who are happy. So if anyone from Codies is reading this, stop listening to the loudmouths. Please. 

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Posted (edited)

And who are you if no the loudmouth?

How can you imagine realistic ffb on steering wheel which generates 3-5Nm (so 10 times weaker than real one). If they opted for it (I doubt tbh) then they did mistake 'cause this approach obviously makes impossible to feel car in realistic way (or at all)

 

Edited by MaXyMsrpl

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24 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

And who are you if no the loudmouth?

How can you imagine realistic ffb on steering wheel which generates 3-5Nm (so 10 times weaker than real one). If they opted for it (I doubt tbh) then they did mistake 'cause this approach obviously makes impossible to feel car in realistic way (or at all)

 

I don't have to imagine realistic ffb, I experienced it when I first got the game. Now the ffb feels like there is a hard mesh all over the stages causing a fake vibration to the detriment of the tyre flex and surface softness feel. I'm driving on what looks like a soft sand or clay and it feels like I'm driving on a hard Tarmac or concrete with big stones strewn all over the road. 

Great improvenents there guys. Kudos. But of course you know better than everyone, including the devs and an actual rally driver who rallies in real life. 

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you obviously have no idea how brutal could be a torque generated by bumps irl.

I don't know what wheel you have, but on my end steering wheel is rather smooth. It can be strong but no spikes coming from a surface

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8 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

you obviously have no idea how brutal could be a torque generated by bumps irl.

I don't know what wheel you have, but on my end steering wheel is rather smooth. It can be strong but no spikes coming from a surface

The torque generated on the steering column by bumps on soft sand or clay is zero. Even on Tarmac it is close to zero. But that's a nice attempt at deflection there, as I wasn't even talkIng about torque. I'm talking about the ffb now feeling fake and there being close to zero feel for tyre flex and surface softness feel, something there was plenty of on release. Like I've said before, it feels like I'm driving on concrete with stones strewn all over the road when I'm driving on soft sand or clay. Didn't have this problem before you guys self-appointed yourselves as the new ffb gurus on DR2.0. Sadly Codies buckled under threat of refunds and 1-star reviews. 

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lol, so you are saying you can feel tire deflection on steering wheel in real life, but not bumps? Of course forgetting about the reason why tires are being deflected. I think man, you don't know what are you talking about.

Ahhh sand. what sand? on a beach? on road we are rallying in dr2, loose matter just covers hard soil background. 

 

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2 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

lol, so you are saying you can feel tire deflection on steering wheel in real life, but not bumps? Of course forgetting about the reason why tires are being deflected. I think man, you don't know what are you talking about.

Ahhh sand. what sand? on a beach? on road we are rallying in dr2, loose matter just covers hard soil background. 

 

What I'm saying is that before you guys appointed yourselves as the ffb gurus on DR 2.0 the ffb felt like I was driving on a soft sandy surface when my eyes were telling me that in driving on a soft surface, like for example in New Zealand or Michigan or Australia. Now my eyes are telling me I'm driving on a soft sandy or gravelly surface but my ffb is telling me I'm driving on concrete with big stones strewn all over. 

On top of that there was a really good feel for tyre deformation and the tyres digging into the surfaces, whereas now there is a massive top-of the-surface feel, like you would expect when driving on concrete with stones strewn all over. But hey, the steering wheel vibrates like hell now, so it's all good.

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You didn't wrote what steering wheel do you use. maybe your issue is wheel specific. maybe settings specific. 

I have TX, and for me it's still a bit blunt. 

 

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5 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

You didn't wrote what steering wheel do you use. maybe your issue is wheel specific. maybe settings specific. 

I have TX, and for me it's still a bit blunt. 

 

G29, t300, t150, doesn't matter, the result is is the same. The useful info such as tyre flex and tyres digging into the surfaces have been replaced by a useless, fake and seemingly random vibration. It goes back to what I said before, you can't pile one effect upon another, and upon another and expect the whole thing to work.In this case useful info was covered up by a useless vibration as requested by you guys.

Don't you think that if the devs wanted to create a fake vibration they would have done so from the very beginning? I mean, it isn't exactly hard, is it? Have you stopped to think what they didn't? Well, I think now you know. 

 .

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On 7/24/2019 at 10:01 AM, PJTierney said:

Version 1.4 was the "big" FFB update; it's pretty low down the priority list these days as content and features are the focus.

 

If the community can some to some sort of consensus of anything specific that is positive/negative, I may be able to feed that back to the team 🙂 

 

It's mainly the feel on tarmac i missing. It's almost impossible to lock up tires for a corner, or there is less wheelspin coming out of hairpins. The cars handle top easy it seems on tarmac!

Think the driving on tarmac feels still too arcady in my opinion compared to other sims like PC2 and ACC.

The rest of this sim is awesome so far and is getting better and better!!!👌 

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Posted (edited)

So codemasters, if you're reading this, to sum up, your devs were right on track to creating something really special as far as ffb is concerned. For the first time in a rally sim there was a real sense of cars driving on soft deformable surfaces with a really pronounced feel for the tyres digging into the surfaces. You even hired a real rally driver, who no doubt contributed massively to those ffb qualities the game shipped with. 

And what do you do? You consign all of that to the trash by covering up all of those wonderful effects with a useless canned vibration, and because a few loudmouths want their wheel to vibrate like dildos.

when are you going to stop listening to loudmouths and start trusting your devs and the real life driver consultants more? 

Edited by Salvador17
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15 hours ago, Salvador17 said:

So codemasters, if you're reading this, to sum up, your devs were right on track to creating something really special as far as ffb is concerned. For the first time in a rally sim there was a real sense of cars driving on soft deformable surfaces with a really pronounced feel for the tyres digging into the surfaces. You even hired a real rally driver, who no doubt contributed massively to those ffb qualities the game shipped with. 

And what do you do? You consign all of that to the trash by covering up all of those wonderful effects with a useless canned vibration, and because a few loudmouths want their wheel to vibrate like dildos.

when are you going to stop listening to loudmouths and start trusting your devs and the real life driver consultants more? 

Don't worry, the crying kids from Steam is a minority. They can cry, they can stay on DR1.0, the life goes on.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Alcolo said:

Don't worry, the crying kids from Steam is a minority. They can cry, they can stay on DR1.0, the life goes on.

Unfortunately codemasters listened to the whining from that minority and as a result destroyed what I feel was the beginning of a really revolutionary ffb for gravel rally driving simulation.

As a result the ffb has now regressed by about a decade. But that's what happens when you listen to people whose idea of good ffb is still stuck in 2005. 

Edited by Salvador17
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On 8/17/2019 at 3:18 AM, Salvador17 said:

I've been following the whining about the ffb since release and it's clear as daylight that some people are simply incapable of understanding that the devs have opted for a very natural, realistic ffb. That clearly is not what they wanted and consequently the shouting has subsequently derailed the ffb completely.

In other words words, the ffb has gotten worse with each patch, and all because a few loudmouths can't comprehend that you can't just keep piling effect upon effect, upon effect and expect a cohesive experience that works. For example, on release the ffb had a very pleasant, smooth quality that felt just like in a real car, with a very nice feel for for seemed like tyre flex and tyres digging into the surfaces. But no, the wheel didn't vibrate,,or something, so the devs went back to work and added some fake stone effects to the surfaces, which is effectively a mesh that now interferes with the tyre flex and soft surface feel. Hence a great effect that once worked well is now broken. 

Its a sad state of affairs when a few loudmouths can ruin things for the quiet ones who are happy. So if anyone from Codies is reading this, stop listening to the loudmouths. Please. 

if you don't like the ffb as it is just turn suspension setting to 0 and its as it was on release day 1,just like codies said when ffb update was rolled out.so stop moaning about other peoples opinion and make sure you read release notes in future.its about the whole community not the individual  

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1 minute ago, chrisjaf said:

if you don't like the ffb as it is just turn suspension setting to 0 and its as it was on release day 1,just like codies said when ffb update was rolled out.so stop moaning about other peoples opinion and make sure you read release notes in future.its about the whole community not the individual  

Setting suspension to 0 doesn't bring back the soft surface feel and tyres digging into the surface info. All it does is turn the fake surface vibration off, but the top-of-the-surface feel introduced in update 1.4 remains.

Really, the fake vibration effect should never have been introduced in the first place. It was never meant to be in the game and was only slapped on by the devs as a damage control strategy as they were threatened with refunds and 1-star reviews.

Aside from that it just doesn't work in a rally game, especially on gravel. I mean, they introduced surface degradation and went into a lot of trouble to represent these luscious soft, deformable surfaces visually, and they designed a ffb system that conveyed that deformable softness through the Wheel as well. And they did a pretty good job I think. But of course the wheel didn't vibrate like a dildo for some people, so they changed something that now makes it feel like your're driving on concrete, even when you're driving through soft, wet sand in New Zealand or Poland, or whatever. It's a mess and should be rolled back to how it was before patch 1.4 in my opinion. 

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On 8/17/2019 at 3:18 AM, Salvador17 said:

I've been following the whining about the ffb since release and it's clear as daylight that some people are simply incapable of understanding that the devs have opted for a very natural, realistic ffb. That clearly is not what they wanted and consequently the shouting has subsequently derailed the ffb completely.

In other words words, the ffb has gotten worse with each patch, and all because a few loudmouths can't comprehend that you can't just keep piling effect upon effect, upon effect and expect a cohesive experience that works. For example, on release the ffb had a very pleasant, smooth quality that felt just like in a real car, with a very nice feel for for seemed like tyre flex and tyres digging into the surfaces. But no, the wheel didn't vibrate,,or something, so the devs went back to work and added some fake stone effects to the surfaces, which is effectively a mesh that now interferes with the tyre flex and soft surface feel. Hence a great effect that once worked well is now broken. 

Its a sad state of affairs when a few loudmouths can ruin things for the quiet ones who are happy. So if anyone from Codies is reading this, stop listening to the loudmouths. Please. 

Sorry I have to disagree with you on this. I have played since day one. There has only been one patch for FFB. You are correct that this added surface effect. This IMHO has not ruined the existing FFB and can be turned down with a slider. Since launch many people have said their bit about FFB. The general consensus was too little FFB too often, lack of surface feeling which meant no difference to FFB between driving on gravel or tarmac and no feeling of when the tyres begin to loose grip.

For now we do get a bit of FFB when the tyres regain grip under lateral load, but nothing when we loose grip. We can  only work with the rotation of the car. Part of this missing FFB would also increase wheel resistance, when turning hard into a corner, a sudden reduction in this force, would indicate loss of grip. I admit these signals are over blown in driving sims, but not as unrealistic as some people claim, as I do get tyre slip feeling in a real car. When people buy a FFB wheel they hope to get a lot of feedback to assist with immersion and improving how they interact with the car under certain conditions.

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12 hours ago, Mattshep said:

Sorry I have to disagree with you on this. I have played since day one. There has only been one patch for FFB. You are correct that this added surface effect. This IMHO has not ruined the existing FFB and can be turned down with a slider. Since launch many people have said their bit about FFB. The general consensus was too little FFB too often, lack of surface feeling which meant no difference to FFB between driving on gravel or tarmac and no feeling of when the tyres begin to loose grip.

For now we do get a bit of FFB when the tyres regain grip under lateral load, but nothing when we loose grip. We can  only work with the rotation of the car. Part of this missing FFB would also increase wheel resistance, when turning hard into a corner, a sudden reduction in this force, would indicate loss of grip. I admit these signals are over blown in driving sims, but not as unrealistic as some people claim, as I do get tyre slip feeling in a real car. When people buy a FFB wheel they hope to get a lot of feedback to assist with immersion and improving how they interact with the car under certain conditions.

I'm telling you, it hasn't been the same since the update. You can get it pretty close to how it was by turning the suspension to 0, but it's not quite the same. If you don't belive me, unpatch the game and see for yourself. But as long as there was a "consensus" that there was too little ffb, whatever that means, it's all good. After all there was a consensus that the earth is flat, so it must be flat, right? 

The problem with you guys is that you don't think. You repeat what gamer muscle and jimmy broadbend have told you. I mean there were literally reviews trashing the ffb on DR2.0 within an hour of the game launching, with no attempt to set up the ffb properly, no attempt to understand what the devs were trying to accomplish etc. It was a simple case of no vibration = game is trash. 1 star. 

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Posted (edited)

I can definitely confirm that trying to get the pre-patch FFB back by setting suspension to 0 doesn't work. Most noticeable when driving over cattle grids, they're completely 'muted' now. 

I agree that influencers should be more sensible with their 'verdicts' and differentiate more. They have hundreds of thousand of viewers, these people just repeat what their favourite streamer says regardless of the actual facts. 

Edited by richie
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The ffb in 2.o is abs rubbish and the only influence that has made me realise this is when I go and have a go on dirt rally 1 where it is brilliant.....simple really

 

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3 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

 

 

I have a feeling you are alone here. Let me ask you about your experience with simulations. It seems you really don't understand what simulation (game) is and what should provide. But you are loud enough winning about majority preferences. 

Evidently also the devs who made the ffb in DR2.0 don't understand what simulation (game) is and what it should provide. Thank God they are blessed with people like you to set them straight. 

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