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Montecarlo full tarmac without snow, what do you think ?

Montecarlo full tarmac without snow, what do you think ?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Montecarlo full tarmac without snow, what do you think ?

    • Fantastic
    • Not so interesting
    • I don't want


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That's only one suggestion, i think it's possible without big effort.

This could be one additional weather option.

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Tarmac handling is the least interesting part of this game.

If you remove the ice from Monte Carlo I'm not sure players will stay awake long enough to finish a stage.

Also, options 2 and 3 are the same... at least in english.

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Wouldn't be better with ALL Ice and Snow, like a '60s special event (like the all gravel Pikes Peak)?

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The tarmac handling is not as bad as everyone makes it sound and it is far better than D4.  Germany was my personal favorite from DR and they made it even better in DR2.  

The slippery surface in Monte Carlo makes every corner and crest more of a gamble.  I would try it without, but it's the icy bits that make it more interesting and intense. 

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I'm with @DoubleTen. make it ALL snow and ice and give us the snow tires from Sweden.

we already have two tarmac locations. let's have two snow ones too.

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52 minutes ago, Bobby1976 said:

The tarmac handling is not as bad as everyone makes it sound and it is far better than D4.  Germany was my personal favorite from DR and they made it even better in DR2.  

The slippery surface in Monte Carlo makes every corner and crest more of a gamble.  I would try it without, but it's the icy bits that make it more interesting and intense. 

It is better than DR1, but D4? I wouldn't be so sure. Germany feels good in its rough parts, but smooth tarmac has a lot of room for improvement. I'll be honest, I skip most dailies and weeklies on tarmac in modern AWD classes because it's just so boring. RWD behave slightly more realistically on tarmac, but still tarmac handling was generally much more believable and interesting in RBR, SLRE or even, dare I say it, WRC7.

I wonder why tarmac handling is so difficult for Codies to get right. They did a splendid job when it comes to gravel, but tarmac... I've heard that even in F1 2019 people compain about the floatiness and cars not feeling planted enough.

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8 hours ago, danielofifi said:

It is better than DR1, but D4? I wouldn't be so sure. Germany feels good in its rough parts, but smooth tarmac has a lot of room for improvement. I'll be honest, I skip most dailies and weeklies on tarmac in modern AWD classes because it's just so boring. RWD behave slightly more realistically on tarmac, but still tarmac handling was generally much more believable and interesting in RBR, SLRE or even, dare I say it, WRC7.

I wonder why tarmac handling is so difficult for Codies to get right. They did a splendid job when it comes to gravel, but tarmac... I've heard that even in F1 2019 people compain about the floatiness and cars not feeling planted enough.

if you're doing a sim, it's very, very hard to do both gravel/dirt/snow physics AND tarmac physics in the same game with the same vehicles, and make it work with AI.

just look at Forza Horizon or whatever. their tarmac physics are pretty good - sure, they're not going full sim, but it's better than DR. on the other hand, the offroad stuff doesn't hold a candle to the Dirt games (not to say it isn't fun! it's just nowhere near as realistic as the tarmac handling).

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34 minutes ago, ianism said:

if you're doing a sim, it's very, very hard to do both gravel/dirt/snow physics AND tarmac physics in the same game with the same vehicles, and make it work with AI.

just look at Forza Horizon or whatever. their tarmac physics are pretty good - sure, they're not going full sim, but it's better than DR. on the other hand, the offroad stuff doesn't hold a candle to the Dirt games (not to say it isn't fun! it's just nowhere near as realistic as the tarmac handling).

I see what you mean. I think Project Cars 2 got very close to simulating both tarmac and gravel well - I had a blast with rallycross in PC2. Also, Richard Burns Rally got both right. A long time ago. 🙂 So it's definitely possible.

Another thing that bugs me about DR2 tarmac physics is that you don't really have to worry about locking your brakes. In most cases you can just slam the brakes as hard as possible and everything's fine. It works on gravel, but on tarmac it's just weird. I wish you could actually feel the locking of the brakes on tarmac through ffb, hear the screeching and see accelerated tyre wear because of aggressive braking. Now THAT's a sim-like feature.

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i love monte carlo with ice and snow but i want option for monte carlo without ice and snow too

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without weather and add monte carlo with rain too so you have  2 new option 

 

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20 hours ago, danielofifi said:

It is better than DR1, but D4? I wouldn't be so sure. Germany feels good in its rough parts, but smooth tarmac has a lot of room for improvement. I'll be honest, I skip most dailies and weeklies on tarmac in modern AWD classes because it's just so boring. RWD behave slightly more realistically on tarmac, but still tarmac handling was generally much more believable and interesting in RBR, SLRE or even, dare I say it, WRC7.

I wonder why tarmac handling is so difficult for Codies to get right. They did a splendid job when it comes to gravel, but tarmac... I've heard that even in F1 2019 people compain about the floatiness and cars not feeling planted enough.

I do feel an improvement when you compare Spain to Germany for example whereas in Germany it feels more realistic overall. However with a base setup, tarmac is indeed not where it should be but when you fiddle around with the setup of the car you can get it pretty close.

Let me give you an example: 

I drove the Waldabstieg stage with the base setup of the Peugeot 208 R2 (yes, I know it's not an AWD car but I don't have one for an AWD car) and afterwards used a custom setup to drive the same stage. The difference is night and day.

  • The car is so much more planted .
  • It grips when turning into a bend with just a hint of understeer.
  • It barely slides wide or understeers when going around high speed corners.
  • It is very stable under heavy braking. Just a slight hint of oversteer in order easily go around the corner.
  • Etc. 

If you want to get a great feeling from the cars on tarmac, creating proper setups is the way to go.

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3 hours ago, gk9147 said:

i love monte carlo with ice and snow but i want option for monte carlo without ice and snow too

no you don't. it's 75% tarmac.

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Another vote for 100% ice/snow in Monte Carlo here.

But while I'm generally no fan of tarmac rallies in DR, among them I still enjoy the tarmac sections in Monte most. Still more fun than Spain and Germany.

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15 hours ago, ianism said:

if you're doing a sim, it's very, very hard to do both gravel/dirt/snow physics AND tarmac physics in the same game with the same vehicles, and make it work with AI.

just look at Forza Horizon or whatever. their tarmac physics are pretty good - sure, they're not going full sim, but it's better than DR. on the other hand, the offroad stuff doesn't hold a candle to the Dirt games (not to say it isn't fun! it's just nowhere near as realistic as the tarmac handling).

Back in the days, I found GT5's gravel/snow physics surprisingly good. But I haven't played that in a long while so can't say if I'd still like it today. And of course, about "making it work with AI"... let's say AI is not GT's main selling point.

However, as for getting AI right in Dirt Rally... I mean, there simply is no rally AI in Dirt Rally. It's just a few times calculated by some algorithm.

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2 hours ago, DocStrangelove said:

However, as for getting AI right in Dirt Rally... I mean, there simply is no rally AI in Dirt Rally. It's just a few times calculated by some algorithm.

One of the devs here said that those AI drivers actually drive the stages. If I understood correctly. I also used to think it's just some algorithm, but apparently it's a bit more complicated.

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I'm sorry but I don't believe that for a second. I can hardly imagine how hard it'd be to program an AI to drive well through Wales in rain or whatever. And from any racing game AI I've seen, it seems incredibly difficult to make one that performs well in adverse conditions on complicated tracks. There doesn't seem to be any point in spending a huge lot of time on programming a super-complicated AI when you never see them anyway and could just calculate some times with some algorithm.

I will admit defeat when I see a video of that so-called AI driving a stage, but until then I call BS.

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8 hours ago, ianism said:

no you don't. it's 75% tarmac.

75 % for the video ? personally i want 2 more option for monte carlo 100% tarmac or 100% rain ( and maybe 75 % rain and 25%snow)

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4 hours ago, danielofifi said:

One of the devs here said that those AI drivers actually drive the stages. If I understood correctly. I also used to think it's just some algorithm, but apparently it's a bit more complicated.

Pretty sure they mean the 'AI' times are based on a range of real human drivers actually driving the stage in different conditions, with the results recorded (similar to time trial recordings) and fudged with maths and randomness to create 30 different times that represent any given stage. This is one of the reasons why the conditions available are not fully variable - they need recordings of stage times for each combination of conditions. Completely different from the AI in Rallycross where the computer is actually 'driving' - in which driving means sticking to ideal race line while avoiding other cars and applying physics constraints.

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3 hours ago, gk9147 said:

75 % for the video ? personally i want 2 more option for monte carlo 100% tarmac or 100% rain ( and maybe 75 % rain and 25%snow)

no, in the game. the roads are 75% tarmac, 25% ice/snow.

hey, anyone else notice that the physics of the winter tires on pure tarmac are actually pretty good? maybe just making the regular tarmac tires more like that and the winter ones less grippy would help the handling of cars in Spain and Germany? just a thought.

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A plausible way to have this would be having another route, lower in the base of the mountains and going up to the mountains where there's only tarmac. It would be important for tyre gambling.

There's plenty of routes like Sisteron and other ones that you even pass through small villages, like in Spain. Same houses from Spain could be used with a few minor changes.

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13 hours ago, ianism said:

no, in the game. the roads are 75% tarmac, 25% ice/snow.

hey, anyone else notice that the physics of the winter tires on pure tarmac are actually pretty good? maybe just making the regular tarmac tires more like that and the winter ones less grippy would help the handling of cars in Spain and Germany? just a thought.

This is true also IRL.  Mostly bald (and studless) Nokians and Blizzaks make really fun summer tires but they wear out within one oil change.  😁

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If they were to convert the existing monte stages to tarmac only I would like to see a complete overhaul of the environment too. Change the season to Summer or something. That would certainly liven up things.

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Should be interesting have different wheather/surface option:

  •  STandard Montecarlo (actual)
  •  Dry Montecarlo (without snow but dry or wet)
  •  Snow Montecarlo (full snow)

Regarding phisics on tarmac it's not the best but for me it's playable and i enjoy Spain and German rally.

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I wouldn't change the season. Rather make it drier or snowier as a selectable weather condition, that's about it. Monte Carlo is a traditional rally opener during winter. Please don't mutate it.

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