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[Car Performance][Car Setup] [Feedback] "The Game Is Not So Good" (Cars are unbalanced / Not enough downforce / Too much drag)

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Posted (edited)

Jokes aside, the cars have too much understeer, even after the 1.05 patch got released the cars are still too slow compared to real life performances.

 

2019 cars are way faster than 2018, but unfortunately this is not the case in the game.

 

Imo, the ingame cars of F1 2019 have...

 

...too much drag. We need to crank the aero up pretty high, which is a necessity to get close to the real life highspeed cornering speeds, but in contrary the cars do not get to topspeed as fast as irl which makes all the time gained in the corners getting lost on the straights. To specify, take France as an example, right before the start finish line Hamilton reached 8th gear at a speed of around 300kmh, whilst taking the long right hander corner of Turn 11 i believe at Sector 3 at around 205 kmh, if i try to get close to that ridiculous cornering speed by adjusting wings to a higher configuration (i use 11 / 9 wing at France to get close to the crazy real life cornering speeds) i only reach 8th gear and 300kmh on the start finish straight at the green Rolex clock which is located at the end of the pitlane. Unrealistic.

 

...too much understeer. At tracks that are supposed to have medium to low aero settings, the cars tend to have too much understeer to turn in and are also too prone to midcorner understeer in low speeds as well, whereas irl the cars are driving on rails during these type of corners. This unfortunately forces us to either use unrealistic suspension and roll bar settings or maximizing aero to get some better grip. Unrealistic.

 

...not enough highspeed grip. This is connected to all above.

 

How can we fix this?

 

Basically the cars themselves need to get at least another 1 - 1,5 seconds faster to what they are capable of doing right now, by...

 

...increasing high and medium cornering speed grip, for medium and higher aero settings and therefore reducing understeer.

 

...reducing drag for higher aero settings and thus making acceleration become faster.

 

...making understeer more prevalent and pronounced for lower aero settings.

 

...making the current aero grip levels of 11 / 11 wings available for 6 / 6 wings or 7 / 7 wings instead, so that the cornering speeds we currently are able to take at 11 / 11 wings should become valid at medium wing setups, increasing overall grip and cornering speeds.

 

Also, please for Gods sake, fix the car setups already.

 

At the moment people use completely unrealistic setups, using low aero configurations most of the time to maximize topspeed and acceleration as going for high aero makes little sense right now due to the insane amount of drag, these people also use some pretty shady suspension / anti roll bar settings that in reality would destroy the tyres pretty fast.

 

Meanwhile in real life, topspeeds are slow, drag is minimal, acceleration is ultra fast, and cornering speeds are crazy high.

 

Car setups could be fixed by...

 

...making too soft suspensions increase understeer, whereas a stiffer setup should do the opposite.

 

...making too stiff anti roll bars increase understeer, whereas a softer setup should do the opposite.

 

...making positive camber increase understeer, whereas a negative configuration should do the opposite.

 

...making Toe in increase understeer and help stability on the straights at the expense of cornering, whereas as Toe out configuration should do the opposite.

 

...making medium to higher aero settings more viable to use instead of going for low setups.

 

All in all Codemasters have lots to do to fix this game, the cars performances and car setups are important and need to be fixed ASAP, currently the game is nowhere near to a perfect "official" representation of the sports.

 

Seriously, do something.

 

Hope it will get fixed before the end of this season, but CM's trackrecord is telling a different story...

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
Spelling error, format, new points of idea
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Posted (edited)

They could have should have just modelled Assetto Corsa's open wheel physics from 5 years ago.

Edited by DaleRossi
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agreed. 100%. Better yet, why do we have to be the engineers? Why can our feedback to the engineers affect the setup of the car? Currently, the numbers correlate to the cars geometry or the whatnot doesn't make any sense. Is the car to low? IDK, lets see the actual car move its measurements so we can see the effect. Calculator at least that gives us the performance rating so we can balance the cars performance between grippy or not grippy. 

Again, the guy is correct. The setups are almost useless. 

My solution:

Either let the driver be a driver and need to articulate the cars behavior to the engineer to alter the cars setup

or

Give us a performance calculator or/and the actual effects of the changes made to the car.

Step it up, Codemasters. 

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Kimi is really quite relaxed. I would have punched Aarava; too much talking and interrupting!!! (A career in broadcasting does not beckon, YT doesn't count.....)

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Sorry guys but they are playing on gamepad

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Posted (edited)

The persisting understeer is pretty easily explained through the fact that we only have the Australia spec cars. If you go into GP mode and choose a later track, don't expect to match what the real life cars can do. The gamepad is also understeer wonderland.

If the cars are to be given yet another upgrade outside of their customary mid-season updates and whatnot, it has to come at a cost: namely, upping the tyre wear, and especially either upping it even more for the AI or taking away some of their grip. IRL the drivers still do a fair bit of tyre saving, but you can get away with driving flat out and pretending it's 2004 without suffering too much, and the AI can do that without suffering at all.

Edited by Coffer
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8 hours ago, steviejay69 said:

Kimi is really quite relaxed. I would have punched Aarava; too much talking and interrupting!!! (A career in broadcasting does not beckon, YT doesn't count.....)

Yeah, that was uncomfortable. Was waiting for Kimi to pause the interview and say, "You Have Got to Shut the **** Up."  lol

 

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Maybe the mosy

7 hours ago, Coffer said:

The persisting understeer is pretty easily explained through the fact that we only have the Australia spec cars. If you go into GP mode and choose a later track, don't expect to match what the real life cars can do. The gamepad is also understeer wonderland.

If the cars are to be given yet another upgrade outside of their customary mid-season updates and whatnot, it has to come at a cost: namely, upping the tyre wear, and especially either upping it even more for the AI or taking away some of their grip. IRL the drivers still do a fair bit of tyre saving, but you can get away with driving flat out and pretending it's 2004 without suffering too much, and the AI can do that without suffering at all.

Maybe the most obvious reason for understeer is they do very minimal remodeling year to year. No ballast in last year's car = understeer city.

No ballast this year = understeer city.

There is not an open wheel car on the planet that understeers even remotely to this extent. You could almost put an AWD car skin on these and slow them down and it would be the same thing.  

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The F2 cars understeer even more so IMO. Doubt this is completely realistic either. 

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1 hour ago, Mauler77 said:

The F2 cars understeer even more so IMO. Doubt this is completely realistic either. 

I enjoyed the F2 cars in beta and the early release, but haven't been back to play them post 1.05. A lot of people liked the fact that the F2 cars were harder to drive, ironic really.

This is not to say I disagree about the F1 cars handling, I'm in complete agreement.

Maybe I'll moan about them when the inevitable league based around F2 starts when we get the F2 2019 car updates. 🙋‍♂️

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17 minutes ago, steviejay69 said:

I enjoyed the F2 cars in beta and the early release, but haven't been back to play them post 1.05. A lot of people liked the fact that the F2 cars were harder to drive, ironic really.

This is not to say I disagree about the F1 cars handling, I'm in complete agreement.

Maybe I'll moan about them when the inevitable league based around F2 starts when we get the F2 2019 car updates. 🙋‍♂️

I think people were saying F2 was harder to drive due to the TC or their twitchy nature. I've not driven them for weeks but remember the struggle trying to get them to go round tight, slow corners, no matter what I did with the aero or roll bars. 

I decided I'd drive some of the classic F1 cars instead, which so far have been a lot of fun.

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Posted (edited)

I've been reading comments on how the F1 cars don't handle the same or are to hard to turn due to not having ballats. Or how the F2 cars are so under steering, that's the nature of the car. The way ballast was being used to snap the noise around a turn due to the weight was in the rear of the car. No that the option is not given people want to say the cars are junk. I've taken all the set-ups I had for 2018 and applied them to 2019. Yes the handling was off in the beginning but that was due to aerodynamic lose, wrong camber and roll-bar. I made adjustments and the sets are up to a second faster in two cases I gained two and half seconds. As for the F2 cars. If you can drive those fast, you'll be faster in the F1 cars. FYI using assist CHANGES THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE CAR, mainly TC. If you want the car to handle better do a little research and learn more about Formula car or do some go-karting. A little tip on how to get the F1 and F2 cars to handle better. Stop using max camber, your not getting the maximum contact patch when turning in. Along with pay attention to your tire pressure.

And Kimi really can't say much on how good this title is until he tries it with a wheel. The only F1 driver that play's this title on a norm in Lando and the only thing he has said is the ERS system is not right. Changing modes all the time is not what they do. They mainly stay in one mode the whole race.         

Edited by Striker_703
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Posted (edited)

Just checked and used the same car setup from F1 2019, which has a higher aero setting, in last years game F1 2018 at Spain to compare:

 

Set the ballast at 6 to replicate what F1 2019 does as close as possible and to no surprise, the handling was feeling similar to how the 2019 cars do, mainly understeery, which is why i was not able to take Turn 9 at Spain flatout and had to lift slightly to take the corner at a speed of around 240kmh.

 

Here's the thing, once i made ballast go 1 click up to 7 with everything else unchanged for the car setup, i was able to take Turn 9 flatout at around 270kmh which is much closer to real life performances at the specific corner.

 

Maybe, CM could at least make last years ballast value of 7 become the standard locked one for F1 2019?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, SturmDesTodes said:

Just checked and used the same car setup from F1 2019, which has a higher aero setting, in last years game F1 2018 at Spain to compare:

 

Set the ballast at 6 to replicate what F1 2019 does as close as possible and to no surprise, the handling was feeling similar to how the 2019 cars do, mainly understeery, which is why i was not able to take Turn 9 at Spain flatout and had to lift slightly to take the corner at a speed of around 240kmh.

 

Here's the thing, once i made ballast go 1 click up to 7 with everything else unchanged for the car setup, i was able to take Turn 9 flatout at around 270kmh which is much closer to real life performances at the specific corner.

 

Maybe, CM could at least make last years ballast value of 7 become the standard locked one for F1 2019?

It was my understanding that's what they'd done anyway, I think if you look in the game data files the balance was set to 7. I can't remember where I saw it or whether it has been changed in an update but I was pretty sure it was. (Might even have been beta as the ballast screen was visible but not changeable?)

Edited by steviejay69
Really not sure where I saw it!
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17 hours ago, Striker_703 said:

I've been reading comments on how the F1 cars don't handle the same or are to hard to turn due to not having ballats. Or how the F2 cars are so under steering, that's the nature of the car. The way ballast was being used to snap the noise around a turn due to the weight was in the rear of the car. No that the option is not given people want to say the cars are junk. I've taken all the set-ups I had for 2018 and applied them to 2019. Yes the handling was off in the beginning but that was due to aerodynamic lose, wrong camber and roll-bar. I made adjustments and the sets are up to a second faster in two cases I gained two and half seconds. As for the F2 cars. If you can drive those fast, you'll be faster in the F1 cars. FYI using assist CHANGES THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE CAR, mainly TC. If you want the car to handle better do a little research and learn more about Formula car or do some go-karting. A little tip on how to get the F1 and F2 cars to handle better. Stop using max camber, your not getting the maximum contact patch when turning in. Along with pay attention to your tire pressure.

And Kimi really can't say much on how good this title is until he tries it with a wheel. The only F1 driver that play's this title on a norm in Lando and the only thing he has said is the ERS system is not right. Changing modes all the time is not what they do. They mainly stay in one mode the whole race.         

 

 

Not strictly true as to the only thing he's said. He has criticised the handling and also the setups.

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Posted (edited)

How can he give a true criticism of the way the cars handle with a controller? I can't tell what the car is doing with a controller only with a with. Can you tell when the tires are going to lock-up or when you losing traction with a controller @martbloke? Kimi is not a regular sim racer. That interview should have been done with Lando Norris. He runs F1 2019 a lot in his spare time along with iRacing.  

Edited by Striker_703

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On 7 August 2019 at 11:44 PM, SturmDesTodes said:

Jokes aside, the cars have too much understeer, even after the 1.05 patch got released the cars are still too slow compared to real life performances.

 

2019 cars are way faster than 2018, but unfortunately this is not the case in the game.

 

Imo, the ingame cars of F1 2019 have...

 

...too much drag. We need to crank the aero up pretty high, which is a necessity to get close to the real life highspeed cornering speeds, but in contrary the cars do not get to topspeed as fast as irl which makes all the time gained in the corners getting lost on the straights. To specify, take France as an example, right before the start finish line Hamilton reached 8th gear at a speed of around 300kmh, whilst taking the long right hander corner of Turn 11 i believe at Sector 3 at around 205 kmh, if i try to get close to that ridiculous cornering speed by adjusting wings to a higher configuration (i use 11 / 9 wing at France to get close to the crazy real life cornering speeds) i only reach 8th gear and 300kmh on the start finish straight at the green Rolex clock which is located at the end of the pitlane. Unrealistic.

 

...too much understeer. At tracks that are supposed to have medium to low aero settings, the cars tend to have too much understeer to turn in and are also too prone to midcorner understeer in low speeds as well, whereas irl the cars are driving on rails during these type of corners. This unfortunately forces us to either use unrealistic suspension and roll bar settings or maximizing aero to get some better grip. Unrealistic.

 

...not enough highspeed grip. This is connected to all above.

 

How can we fix this?

 

Basically the cars themselves need to get at least another 1 - 1,5 seconds faster to what they are capable of doing right now, by...

 

...increasing high and medium cornering speed grip, for medium and higher aero settings and therefore reducing understeer.

 

...reducing drag for higher aero settings.

 

...making understeer more prevalent and pronounced for lower aero settings.

 

...making the current aero grip levels of 11 / 11 wings available for 6 / 6 wings or 7 / 7 wings instead, so that the cornering speeds we currently are able to take at 11 / 11 wings should become valid at medium wing setups, increasing overall grip and cornering speeds.

 

Also, please for Gods sake, fix the car setups already.

 

At the moment people use completely unrealistic setups, using low aero configurations most of the time to maximize topspeed and acceleration as going for high aero makes little sense right now due to the insane amount of drag, these people also use some pretty shady suspension / anti roll bar settings that in reality would destroy the tyres pretty fast.

 

Meanwhile in real life, topspeeds are slow, drag is minimal, acceleration is ultra fast, and cornering speeds are crazy high.

 

Car setups could be fixed by...

 

...making too soft suspensions increase understeer, whereas a stiffer setup should do the opposite.

 

...making too stiff anti roll bars increase understeer, whereas a softer setup should do the opposite.

 

...making positive camber increase understeer, whereas a negative configuration should do the opposite.

 

...making Toe in increase understeer and help stability on the straights at the expense of cornering, whereas as Toe out configuration should do the opposite.

 

...making medium to higher aero settings more viable to use instead of going for low setups.

 

All in all Codemasters have lots to do to fix this game, the cars performances and car setups are important and need to be fixed ASAP, currently the game is nowhere near to a perfect "official" representation of the sports.

 

Seriously, do something.

 

Hope it will get fixed before the end of this season, but CM's trackrecord is telling a different story...

 

Codies if your not listening to us the gamers ,league owners with thousands of hours racing ,testing and practice 

then please listen to the iceman Kimi,

 

all ll what he's said ,we've been posting solid for one month,

 

you ou could have saved yourself a lot of wasted man or woman hours by simply rollback to patch 1.05 , which still had amazing ffb for wheel users ,

i use ps4 with a t300 thrustmaster wheel ,

patch 1.06 made game virtual unplayable due to poor ffb ,

patch 1.07 not only made ffb even worse but now over master game sound has a bug , both my Sony wireless headphones are at full volume and game sound is like on medium volume ,

no other games on my ps4 have overall game sound set so low ,and that's since patch 1.07 ,

since patch 1.05 your not improving anything at all, there seem to be no sense of direction ,

bug after bug after bug since patches 1.06 and 1.07 , 

medium tc is more snappy ,if you turn tc off especially with f2 cars it makes them easy to drive, and that's since the last 2 patches,

When I first got the early release Senna vs Prost game I couldn't stop from racing on the game ,it was truly fantastic ,a masterpiece of a F1 game ,

since patch 1.06 and 1.07 I don't want to touch game as its that bad ,

so if you want listen to us your fans and supporters ,then listen to the iceman Kimi ,

 

please rollback to patch 1.05 , 

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1 hour ago, Striker_703 said:

How can he give a true criticism of the way the cars handle with a controller? I can't tell what the car is doing with a controller only with a with. Can you tell when the tires are going to lock-up or when you losing traction with a controller @martbloke? Kimi is not a regular sim racer. That interview should have been done with Lando Norris. He runs F1 2019 a lot in his spare time along with iRacing.  

Kimi doesn't drive for a pro simracing team but he enjoys it on his spare time.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfiYyF2BybM/?taken-by=kimimatiasraikkonen

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQOlbEBule/

 

KR.jpg

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Posted (edited)

You say cars have too much understeer maybe you should read what Mercedes (and other teams) have been working on all year (extract from motorsport magazine article)

"Mercedes gives a pretty good clue of how, up to a certain point of steering, the suspension loads feed straight through that bracket to the wheel hub, in a conventional fashion. But once past that steering angle, the suspension leg forces the bracket to pivot downwards, effectively pulling the whole front of the car down. This will not only counteract the understeer inherent to an F1 car – and especially a long wheelbase F1 car – in slow corners by mechanical means, there is also likely to be an aerodynamic benefit as the wing and nose begin to work in ground effect. Although most of the teams are now utilising this technology, it will be of particular benefit to a car with an inherent weakness in slow corners – such as a long wheelbase car"

Meanwhile at Ferrari:

 We are losing a lot in each corner, not only in the last sector, it is each single corner we are slow," said Binotto. "There is quite a lot of understeer. Is that only downforce or is it more than that? That is something that we really need to analyse and understand.


 

Edited by Jajb
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20 minutes ago, Jajb said:

You say cars have too much understeer maybe you should read what Mercedes (and other teams) have been working on all year (extract from motorsport magazine article)

"Mercedes gives a pretty good clue of how, up to a certain point of steering, the suspension loads feed straight through that bracket to the wheel hub, in a conventional fashion. But once past that steering angle, the suspension leg forces the bracket to pivot downwards, effectively pulling the whole front of the car down. This will not only counteract the understeer inherent to an F1 car – and especially a long wheelbase F1 car – in slow corners by mechanical means, there is also likely to be an aerodynamic benefit as the wing and nose begin to work in ground effect. Although most of the teams are now utilising this technology, it will be of particular benefit to a car with an inherent weakness in slow corners – such as a long wheelbase car"

Meanwhile at Ferrari:

 We are losing a lot in each corner, not only in the last sector, it is each single corner we are slow," said Binotto. "There is quite a lot of understeer. Is that only downforce or is it more than that? That is something that we really need to analyse and understand.


 

Indeed, but that doesn't change the fact that the cars of 2019 are significantly faster than the 2018 ones in real life.

 

This year in 2019 they are once again breaking track records left and right, but the ingame 2019 cars are not reflecting that in a convincible manner.

 

 

 

 

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Hi ,

ps4 ,

t300,

 

those who who use a wheel might agree,

it down to the last 2 patches , you could feel the car and tyres in there limits , so you were able to push car for faster lap times,

hence wheel vs pad upto patch 1.05 was equal, I could match the pad users, now we've lost the ffb I can't feel the limits so no more fastest laps, 

hence pad users can't feel subtle ffb and are now 1 to 2 seconds ahead ,

it shows in our league,. One guy even stated he won't use his wheel anymore due to fact the pad is now faster ,so he uses his pad , 

most of the wheel users all know something has changed since the introduction of patch 1.06 and 1.07 ,

I kinda  feel if wheel users are not going to get back that brilliant ffb ,was it down on purpose just to sell game,

because come on ,how do two patches spoil a really good game and nothing is said or done about it,

pit dosent cost them a penny to rollback to patch 1.05 , yet cost them lots of money trying to fix patch 1.06 with another 1.07 ,

both patches clearly don't work ,and who ever is at the centre or in charge of putting out patches should either test game proper or read and get gamers onboard , or be sacked ,

if it's not broken 

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On 8/8/2019 at 1:11 AM, Neomo said:

Sorry guys but they are playing on gamepad

Very good point! Aarava mentions that he tried to get this setup with a wheel...

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8 hours ago, Striker_703 said:

How can he give a true criticism of the way the cars handle with a controller? I can't tell what the car is doing with a controller only with a with. Can you tell when the tires are going to lock-up or when you losing traction with a controller @martbloke? Kimi is not a regular sim racer. That interview should have been done with Lando Norris. He runs F1 2019 a lot in his spare time along with iRacing.  

Was actually talking about Lando hence the bolded section!

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Posted (edited)

Fiddled around with the suspension in my car setup for the Spain GP in F1 2019 to maximize cornering ability, found 2 new setups that allowed me to have great cornering speeds.

 

Please go ahead and try these 2 setups yourself and if you want to just let us know your experience with them in this thread as well.

 

Here are the car setups i came up with for the Spain GP for maximum cornering speeds (the values in the brackets are for the alternative 2nd car setup):

 

Front Wing: 11 (8)

Rear Wing: 11 (10)

Diff. On: 50% (70%)

Diff. Off: 60% (70%)

Front Camber: -2.8 (-3.5)

Rear Camber: -2 (-2)

Front Toe: 0.05 (0.07)

Rear Toe: 0.2 (0.11)

Front Suspension: 7 (3)

Rear Suspension: 5 (3)

Front ARB: 9 (4)

Rear ARB: 11 (5)

Front Ride Height: 3 (4)

Rear Ride Height: 5 (6)

Brake Pressure: 92% (88%)

Brake Bias: 56% (54%)

Front Tyre: 21psi (23.8psi)

Rear Tyre: 19.5psi (21.1psi)

 

These seem to be the one of the few high aero setups that allows me to take Turn 9 flatout at the appropriate speed of around 260kmh, if compared to real life, but due to the insane amount of drag of having to use 11/11 or 8/10 wing, i lose a lot of time in the straights and only reach around 310kmh - 319kmh with DRS on at the main straight and have to deal with a much slower acceleration as well.

 

Imo, if the aero performance of 11/11 wings was available at 7/7 wings, the whole car performance would be much closer to real life.

 

There needs to be at least one more car and team performace update as the teams in real life have made the cars much faster compared to the overall performance at the Winter Testings and or even at Melbourne.

 

Hope CM can do another change to make the cars behave accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
Added alternative 2nd car setup, Spelling Error
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