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It's official. Car performance/ Team performance/ Driver performance will "currently" not be fixed in F1 2019!

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T300/racing rig 

league owner ,

on a pad or wheel as most pad users are not noticing the problems wheel users are having,

i am a good clean sim racer on a wheel and at start of our league latest season for f12019 pad vs wheel was equal ,

couple of weeks ago at silverstone I had to race in qualy mode lap after lap just to stay on same lap as pad users ,

now we all know that a pad user has suddenly  not got 1 to 3 seconds per lap faster depending on track over 4 weeks ,

so I do think it's very important to understand pad vs wheel is not equal,

hence we have a wheel user now swapped over to his pad  because he's 3 seconds faster on pad ,

ive tried on my other account on the pad and I can almost match my wheel lap times in 2 laps on time trial ,

yes it still takes skill on either pad or wheel ,but for anyone to win against any pad using a wheel ,you have to be alien super fast lol

Edited by senna94f1
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On 8/15/2019 at 8:52 AM, Striker_703 said:

Now is this in the TT's or in other modes with full tire simulation on @ShelbyUSA? Pad or wheel? Please share the data.

Sorry, I just saw this. Yes, I can provide the data. I need to see if I can export the file... if not, I will take a screenshot associated with the results.

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On 8/15/2019 at 2:20 PM, SimracerGysepy said:

Can you provide the data? People seem to be getting caught in the fact that a setup gives you the laptime.. It can certainly give you the confidence but its up to you to push the car to the limit... Hence why one setup does not suit all... 

There are a few things that I will share. I had recently noticed adjusting rear camber to the middle, instead of the two bars to the right, can give us wheel runners more grip. I am not kidding. As it relates to other things, (tire psi), I am seeing zero effects of the temp. I will send over the data to illustrate the findings. 

As it relates to this, its crazy that codemasters doesn't release more detail associated with the setup changes and effects of the setup in some sort of UI view. Effects on the car and behavior from past driving. Using a built in telemetry tool to either have the engineer adjust the setup due to style and results. 

Wait, you know what.??? I am so wasting my time suggesting very useful changes that need to be made. Why do it? They will not respond, suggest, or/and express concerns. This company is so understaffed or they just don't give an F. 

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On 9/4/2019 at 1:10 AM, ShelbyUSA said:

There are a few things that I will share. I had recently noticed adjusting rear camber to the middle, instead of the two bars to the right, can give us wheel runners more grip. I am not kidding. As it relates to other things, (tire psi), I am seeing zero effects of the temp. I will send over the data to illustrate the findings. 

As it relates to this, its crazy that codemasters doesn't release more detail associated with the setup changes and effects of the setup in some sort of UI view. Effects on the car and behavior from past driving. Using a built in telemetry tool to either have the engineer adjust the setup due to style and results. 

Wait, you know what.??? I am so wasting my time suggesting very useful changes that need to be made. Why do it? They will not respond, suggest, or/and express concerns. This company is so understaffed or they just don't give an F. 

They are busy and working really hard on F1 2020 game. :classic_biggrin: 

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if you watched the belgium race you know how off the game is.

This understeering is not f1 like and the general grip level is totally not on point. Just look how they drive at turn 10/11 (Double Gauche - even in the race!) nearly full throttle and try that in the game lol.

Edited by KiLLu12258
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As this topic of car performance still has not been fixed as of yet, i took some time and did multiple test runs around another high downforce track:

 

Hungary.

 

I found out more evidence that the cars in the game are most definitely wrong performance-wise, meaning the cars have too much drag and are therefore too slow at acceleration and also have not enough downforce.

Just for clarification, here is the data of real life topspeeds and cornering speeds around Hungary:

Topspeed around 322kmh - 312kmh for the top 3 teams at the end of the main straight with drs open.

 

Cornering speed around 250kmh - 240kmh for the uphill fast left hander in sector 1 and almost the same for the downhill fast right hander at the end of sector 2.

 

To achieve similar performances with the top 3 teams in the game, i used the following 2 car setups, one for topspeed and one (in brackets) for cornering speed:

 

Aero: 6/7 (9/10)

Transmission: 60/70 (70/70)

Suspension Geometry: -2,8/-1,9/0,13/0,23 (-2,8/-1,4/0,11/0,29)

Suspension: 1/2/2/7/3/5 (3/2/3/7/2/4)

Brakes: 92/55 (82/56) 

Tyres: 23,8/21,1 (22,2/20,3)

 

Here is the problem:

 

If i want to achieve similar topspeeds to real life around Hungary, i need to lower aero to medium settings (6/7), but in contrary i lose around 40kmh - 20kmh around the corners, can't take the corners flatout as in real life and have massive understeer which is making me extremely slow in the corners and thus makes me lose time.

 

If i want to achieve similar cornering speeds to real life Hungary, i need to maximize aero to high settings (9/10), but in contrary i lose around 30kmh - 15kmh in the straights and reach the 300kmh barrier much much later which is making me extremely slow on the straights and thus makes me lose time as well.

 

It's extremely frustrating and a no win situation.

 

At the moment it seriously feels as if i am driving a 2016 "#ITZALLABOUTTHETOPSPEED" Mercedes rather than a 2019 aero efficient F1 monster.

 

Codemasters needs to give the cars at least 20% more downforce and make the current 1.09 patch 11/11 aero performance available at 7/7 or 8/8 wings, next to that the drag level needs to be decreased by at least 10% so that the cars can accelerate much faster and reach the 300kmh barrier in the correct zones on track.

 

I hope Codemasters can make a change and give the cars the necessary 2019 perfomance they deserve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
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2 hours ago, SturmDesTodes said:

As this topic of car performance still has not been fixed as of yet, i took some time and did multiple test runs around another high downforce track:

 

Hungary.

 

I found out more evidence that the cars in the game are most definitely wrong performance-wise, meaning the cars have too much drag and are therefore too slow at acceleration and also have not enough downforce.

Just for clarification, here is the data of real life topspeeds and cornering speeds around Hungary:

Topspeed around 322kmh - 312kmh for the top 3 teams at the end of the main straight with drs open.

 

Cornering speed around 250kmh - 240kmh for the uphill fast left hander in sector 1 and almost the same for the downhill fast right hander at the end of sector 2.

 

To achieve similar performances with the tip 3 teams in the game, i used the following 2 car setups, one for topspeed and one (in brackets) for cornering speed:

 

Aero: 6/7 (9/10)

Transmission: 60/70 (70/70)

Suspension Geometry: -2,8/-1,9/0,13/0,23 (-2,8/-1,4/0,11/0,29)

Suspension: 1/2/2/7/3/5 (3/2/3/7/2/4)

Brakes: 92/55 (82/56) 

Tyres: 23,8/21,1 (22,2/20,3)

 

Here is the problem:

 

If i want to achieve similar topspeeds to real life around Hungary, i need to lower aero to medium settings (6/7), but in contrary i lose around 40kmh - 20kmh around the corners, can't take the corners flatout as in real life and have massive understeer which is making me extremely slow in the corners and thus maskes me lose time.

 

If i want to achieve similar cornering speeds to real life Hungary, i need to maximize aero to high settings (9/10), but in contrary i lose around 30kmh - 15kmh in the straights and reach the 300kmh barrier much much later which is making me extremely slow on the straights and thus makes me lose time as well.

 

It's extremely frustrating and a no win situation.

 

At the moment it seriously feels as if i am driving a 2016 "#ITZALLABOUTTHETOPSPEED" Mercedes rather than a 2019 aero efficient F1 monster.

 

Codemasters needs to give the cars at least 20% more downforce and make the current 1.09 patch 11/11 aero performance available at 7/7 or 8/8 wings, next to that the drag level needs to be decreased by at least 10% so that the cars can accelerate much faster and reach the 300kmh barrier in the correct zones on track.

 

I hope Codemasters can make a change and give the cars the necessary 2019 perfomance they deserve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then, add the wheel glitch, you will be slower. 
 

I have been trying monza today. I can’t get passed 218 mph. This is at ⅓ wings and ⅔ height with normal psi. Then I tried 1/1 wings, max psi 1/1 height and other variations. Never can get above 217/8 mph. Maybe it’s because I am using a wheel? I recorded the telemetry and recorded a mixer. This game is really broken. 

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9 hours ago, ShelbyUSA said:

This game is really broken. 

You hit the nail on the sad truth of this years game.

 

It's beyond frustrating, as Codemasters don't even bother to reply anymore as long as it is not a gamebreaking bug or glitch like floating cars etc., but then again, even these type of bugs and glitches get ignored, there are still multiple issues on the technical discussion forum of F1 games that have not been acknowledged as of yet.

 

This year feels even worse than the past 4 combined in terms of transparency and communication, as Codemasters were much more vocal this time at the beginning of the F1 2019 cycle and then suddenly stopped.

 

4 - 5 patches in, and they went into hiding, no replies, no acknowledgement, no care.

 

Whoever is in charge at Codemasters and or the several smaller studios within, must be concerned about something:

 

Maybe the rumour, that mostly interns are working at Codemasters is true?

 

Maybe they are seriously understaffed and overwhelmed by the task?

 

Maybe they are lacking vision, leadership or even talent?

 

Maybe they have "F'd Up" big time in some or even all departments?

 

Maybe they don't want to share what is currently being worked upon?

 

Maybe they don't want to promise anything?

 

Maybe they simply don't care and are done counting their revenue and feel as if their deed is done?

 

Maybe this is their company philosophy to stay silent?

 

Maybe it's the notorious and unproven "lIcENcinGISsuE" everyone speculates about?

 

Regardless of what it is, all we can do is speculate, because Codemasters' transparency = 0 lately.

 

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
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1 hour ago, Striker_703 said:

Wheel glitch @ShelbyUSA?

Yea, known glitch. Wheel users are 1 to 1.5secs slower than the pad on the Xbox and ps4. 

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1 hour ago, Striker_703 said:

Oh. I've heard of it. I'm on the fence about that.  

If you see the data and in my leagues, all pad users are winning. Some wheel users switched to the pad. 

Edited by ShelbyUSA

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Did yet another test run today to see how the ingame car performance is compared to real life.

 

This time in,

 

Belgium.

 

Real life stats (stats taken from Leclercs Pole Lap):

344kmh topspeed after Eau Rouge at the Kemmel straight by Ferrari (fastest point on track for topspeed)

280kmh cornering speed at the long left hander of Pouhon Turn12 by Ferrari (fastest point on track for cornering speed)

 

Setups i used in the game to get close to both speeds, one low aero setup for topspeed and one high aero setup (in brackets) for cornering speed:

 

Aerodynamics: 2/1 (9/8)

Transmission: 50/70 (60/70)

Suspension Geometry:-2,5/-1/0,05/0,2 (-2,8/-1,1/0,07/0,41)

Suspension: 5/3/3/7/3/5 (5/4/5/7/2/4

Brakes: 92/55 (82/58)

Tyres: 25/22,7 (22,6/20,3)

 

Results:

 

Low Aero Setup = Kemmel (343kmh) / Pouhon (255kmh)

High Aero Setup = Kemmel (324kmh) / Pouhon (281kmh)

 

Conclusion:

 

In the game it is the same story as usual, basically not enough downforce, too much drag.

 

Cars need to be faster by another 1 - 1,5 seconds.

 

Cars need at least 20% more downforce and at least 10% less drag.

 

Codemasters do something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SturmDesTodes
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Interesting test @SturmDesTodes, thanks.

I agree with your overall conclusion about the car performances, but I see another work-around. Getting rid of the crazy mid-corner understeer would also allow for better cornering speeds and better exits, which would also increase top speeds. Of course one could argue that the root cause of the understeer would be lack of downforce, but personally I feel like it's there even with maximum wing angles. In terms of drag specifically, I feel like the front wing setting creates way too much drag.

Did you do the test in Time Trial or some other game mode? In TT there is the "MAX" fuel setting mode missing, so that probably accounts for some extra topspeed. Never actually tested it so correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, out of curiosity and a chance for self-improvement, why do you have higher brake pressure in low-downforce setups? Is it to compensate for the decreased "drag-braking"? I mean it makes a lot of sense but for whatever reason I've always had the feeling that I lock up more easily when running low downforce. Now thinking about it I don't see why it should be so.

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54 minutes ago, janbonator said:

Interesting test @SturmDesTodes, thanks.

I agree with your overall conclusion about the car performances, but I see another work-around. Getting rid of the crazy mid-corner understeer would also allow for better cornering speeds and better exits, which would also increase top speeds. Of course one could argue that the root cause of the understeer would be lack of downforce, but personally I feel like it's there even with maximum wing angles. In terms of drag specifically, I feel like the front wing setting creates way too much drag.

Did you do the test in Time Trial or some other game mode? In TT there is the "MAX" fuel setting mode missing, so that probably accounts for some extra topspeed. Never actually tested it so correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, out of curiosity and a chance for self-improvement, why do you have higher brake pressure in low-downforce setups? Is it to compensate for the decreased "drag-braking"? I mean it makes a lot of sense but for whatever reason I've always had the feeling that I lock up more easily when running low downforce. Now thinking about it I don't see why it should be so.

I can run a aero test within my racing sim tools software to give you data associated with downforce. 

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9 hours ago, janbonator said:

Getting rid of the crazy mid-corner understeer would also allow for better cornering speeds and better exits, which would also increase top speeds.

Possibly, have not tested this on PC yet, there i would have been able to fiddle around with the gamefiles and pinpoint exactly what the cause of the problem is.

 

Only bought F1 2019 for PS4 this year with a large discount, only had to pay 20€ on day one, but on PC we are able to access gamefiles and that is the ultimate form of freedom.

 

Guess PCMasterRace is a thing.

 

8 hours ago, ShelbyUSA said:

Of course one could argue that the root cause of the understeer would be lack of downforce, but personally I feel like it's there even with maximum wing angles.

Downforce is nice at the moment, but at maximum 11/11 wings, extreme highspeed corners such as Turn 9 at Spain, are not consistently possible.

 

Also At Spain no team in real life uses maximum downforce, it's more like a medium / high aero setting at best, so 11/11 wings in the game to get close to Spains ridiculous cornering speeds is way too much, hence why i suggested a increase of downforce of at least 20%, or that the aero downforce performance at 11/11 wings should be readjusted and made available at 7/7 or 8/8 wings.

9 hours ago, janbonator said:

I feel like the front wing setting creates way too much drag.

This is 100% true, higher rear wings did not have such a bad effect on topspeed as the front.

 

But the main issue with topspeed seems to be acceleration, which could be connected to drag, in real life they get to the 300kmh barrier so fast, but in the game it takes ages unless we use 2/1 or 1/1 wings etc.

9 hours ago, janbonator said:

Did you do the test in Time Trial or some other game mode?

All gamemodes, but only in Qualifying as the premise of the test was to find out whether or not the outright maximum performance of the car at Qualifying trim is anywhere close to real life or not.

 

Also, yes, in Time Trial and in Quick Shot Qualifying the overall performance was fastest, at the short and full Qualifying, performance was usually within a tenth or 3.

 

But especially on tracks with many highspeed corners, or in other words tracks where aero efficiency is needed, car performance was down.

 

9 hours ago, janbonator said:

why do you have higher brake pressure in low-downforce setups? 

Because the car ends up with a significantly higher topendspeed and takes a bit longer to brake with a lower brake pressure.

 

Also, with high aero settings i usually tend to brake much later whilst using trail braking into the corner and that requires a little bit less brake pressure for my driving style.

 

Brakes can and should always be changed to a drivers liking, so whatever feels nice to one driver might feel off to another.

 

9 hours ago, janbonator said:

Is it to compensate for the decreased "drag-braking"? 

I don't think drag braking is a thing in the game, but i can do test runs on that and check.

 

Anyways, i will try and do a comparison of real life performance to in game car performance for all tracks that have been raced upon already this year, so Australia to Belgium for now, and will add the rest of the season as time goes.

 

Also, i gotta check on PC whether or not my suggestion of 20% more downforce and 10% less drag actually does what i theorize, but to be honest, this is Codemasters job to do to find out what needs tweaking, we as customers can only direct them towards issues and give info that is necessary to understand the situation.

 

Sadly Codemasters have been silent for the majority of the past couple of weeks and we do not know what is going on, except that the 2019 F2 season will be added soon.

Edited by SturmDesTodes
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8 hours ago, ShelbyUSA said:

I can run a aero test within my racing sim tools software to give you data associated with downforce. 

That'd be awesome.

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On 9/8/2019 at 12:50 PM, SturmDesTodes said:

That'd be awesome.

Hi. Have you tried modify the game? I've encreased Ferrari's drag by 10 points, for test purposes.) So in Spa I was really fast on the straigts reaching 346 kph. But I didn't have much time to test it properly. There are a lot of things in data files to play with.) It would be awesome if anyone knows how to increase downforce by making cars planted in high speed corners only.

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On 9/3/2019 at 6:39 AM, senna94f1 said:

T300/racing rig 

league owner ,

on a pad or wheel as most pad users are not noticing the problems wheel users are having,

i am a good clean sim racer on a wheel and at start of our league latest season for f12019 pad vs wheel was equal ,

couple of weeks ago at silverstone I had to race in qualy mode lap after lap just to stay on same lap as pad users ,

now we all know that a pad user has suddenly  not got 1 to 3 seconds per lap faster depending on track over 4 weeks ,

so I do think it's very important to understand pad vs wheel is not equal,

hence we have a wheel user now swapped over to his pad  because he's 3 seconds faster on pad ,

ive tried on my other account on the pad and I can almost match my wheel lap times in 2 laps on time trial ,

yes it still takes skill on either pad or wheel ,but for anyone to win against any pad using a wheel ,you have to be alien super fast lol

is this a real thing? What exactly makes pad that much faster?

it seems weird.

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10 hours ago, KulishS said:

I've encreased Ferrari's drag by 10 points, for test purposes.) So in Spa I was really fast on the straigts reaching 346 kph.

You decreased drag by 10% and were easily able to reach 346kmh?

 

At what aero wing setting?

 

10 hours ago, KulishS said:

It would be awesome if anyone knows how to increase downforce by making cars planted in high speed corners only.

Indeed, would like to know too.

 

I haven't got the game on PC yet, so currently i can't try to modify the game, but once i do get my hands on the PC version, i'm going to build a mod for a car perfomance fix, if Codemasters refuse to do it.

 

Back in 2015 / 2016 / 2017 / 2018, which i have on PC as well as on consoles, it took me less than 30 minutes to change as well as adjust the car perfomance and i am a amateur noob programmer who just does this as a hobby, i guess the professional programmers at Codemasters could do this in less than 5 minutes, especially as they have got the whole gamefiles and game engine ready and know what to do.

 

Obviously only troubleshooting would take a bit longer to make multiple tests to make sure that no issues arise, but that is to be expected.

 

Either way, it's not as if Codemasters couldn't do these simple changes:

 

They are professionals.

 

But it seems like they either don't care and or that some type of gamedesign choice or maybe even company policy etc. is holding them back.

 

Who knows?

 

It's just disappointing to say the least.

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12 hours ago, SturmDesTodes said:

You decreased drag by 10% and were easily able to reach 346kmh?

 

At what aero wing setting?

Yep, I made Ferrari even less draggy (standard value for Ferrari is ~0.95, Merc 0.98, Williams ~1.07). As for wings, I used the same setup as before which is 3-3. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:17 AM, KulishS said:

Hi. Have you tried modify the game? I've encreased Ferrari's drag by 10 points, for test purposes.) So in Spa I was really fast on the straigts reaching 346 kph. But I didn't have much time to test it properly. There are a lot of things in data files to play with.) It would be awesome if anyone knows how to increase downforce by making cars planted in high speed corners only.

I've increased downforce for all cars by an equal amount like, value*1,03, did this as early as before the performance patch. The same with drag. Work flawless, I will not play without my performance tweaks.

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2 hours ago, KrazyLurt said:

I've increased downforce for all cars by an equal amount like, value*1,03, did this as early as before the performance patch. The same with drag. Work flawless, I will not play without my performance tweaks.

Did same values. Now I'm fast as Merc while in Williams. :classic_blink:

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2 hours ago, KrazyLurt said:

I've increased downforce for all cars by an equal amount like, value*1,03, did this as early as before the performance patch. The same with drag. Work flawless, I will not play without my performance tweaks.

What do you mean? 1.03? All aero values? 

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