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Posted (edited)

With the new mess that is VR I hope the softly softly apologists now see why their boot licking, apologist, Stockholm syndrome approach is a complete waste of time! 

 

So so far the softly softly approach has got us this:

 

1 - Broken FFB with only 1 half baked update (although more was PROMISED) alienating some customers!

2 - The REMOVAL of DASHCAM, alienating some customers! 

3 - Half backed VR with a conscious decision to WITH HOLD oculus support from the steam version, alienating some customers!

4 - Still a forced always online career mode, alienating some customers! 

5 - No way to edit/skin DLC content, alienating some customers/content from use!

6 - No way to reset or start a second/new career alienating all customers after completion of games career!

The list goes on and on...

 

All of those alienated customers make for a huge user base that has left the game for one reason or another. It all adds up!

just add OPTIONs that these users can use, that DONT AFFECT ANYONE ELSE and bring the user base back!

 

The only way to get this company to listen is vote with your wallets! 

They are listerally laughing at their customer base, milking them for DLC from DR1, wanting you to double dip and buy the game again on oculus. Making the game more arcade and aimed at controller users etc. 

 

Its behaviour that consumers really shouldn't accept! 

 

However, there is an additional layer of issue. The apologists! They sit in these threads, attack anyone with a critical opinion, turn the thread from a constructive discussion, into toxic waste! 

 

Im not sure who is more responsible, codemasters for making these decisions and implementing them, or the apologists in here who are driving, supporting and assisting codemasters in making these changes, by burying any content based constructive critism from other users.

 

I predict This thread and myself, will be adhom attcked, by the usual protectors, apologist and gate keepers virtuesignalling and trying to be friends with devs... Riggs, RodgerDavies, MadMaxx, iansim, tbtstt, bn880, caerphoto etc who constantly defend, bootlick and apologise for all this game has done!

 

the only successful thing codemasters have truly done here, is alienate a lot of small user bases (as seen above) and appeased only the boot lickers. The problem is, those bootlickers have provided no critical or constructive feedback, they are like yes men, and their constant brigading has led us here! 

 

Well I'll done Guys!

this is what we wanted to avoid! 

 

More poor reviews re: VR and a worse user experience. 

 

This is game could, REALLY could be the best sim racing rally experience ever, if only they just added OPTIONS that didn't alienate their user base and the brigadiers were a bit more accommodating and released that adding an option, doesn't affect them! 

 

Fix FFB!

Re install Dash Cam!

Optimise and add oculus VR support to steam (ala DR1!)

Edited by SoftlySoftly
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Posted (edited)

chrisjaf did you make a 2nd account?

I am always giving constructive criticism to the game. go check the suggestions box and bug reporting thread. 

but these criticisms are mostly fair.

  • yes we need dashcam back
  • yes we need modifiable dlc skins
  • online career is to block piraters
  • restart career? just sell your stuff and get rid of the money. it's not hard lol
  • VR release has been a mess, but idgaf. I don't use that
  • FFB most people seem to be ok with. not everyone for sure. more wasn't promised though. it was a possibility.

as for the rest, it's stupid. f off.

i could just argue the opposite and say you're like an employee of Kylotonn or something, just trolling CM forums (your first post is just talking trash about people on the forum, ***?) to make the rivals look bad. how much sense does that make? zero. same goes for what you're saying.

also, learn to, like, write sentences that make sense.

Edited by ianism
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44 minutes ago, ianism said:

FFB most people seem to be ok with. not everyone for sure. more wasn't promised though. it was a possibility.

I would say most people doesn't care. They who care (or knows what to expect) complain about FFB from beginning.

And yes, more work on FFB has been promised after 1.4

 

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10 minutes ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

I would say most people doesn't care. They who care (or knows what to expect) complain about FFB from beginning.

And yes, more work on FFB has been promised after 1.4

"It's worth mentioning that while this is the first big update to the FFB, it's definitely a work in progress and we plan to refine the feeling further. Please - let us know what you think."

we plan to refine it further. a plan is different from a promise. 

plan, noun. intention or decision about what one is going to do.
promise, noun. a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.
 
anyways, there'll probably be another FFB update. it'll come when it's ready. more communication would be nice, but frankly they've probably not done anything yet.
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2 hours ago, SoftlySoftly said:

They are listerally laughing at their customer base, milking them for DLC from DR1, wanting you to double dip and buy the game again on oculus. Making the game more arcade and aimed at controller users etc

2 hours ago, SoftlySoftly said:

This is game could, REALLY could be the best sim racing rally experience ever, if only they just added OPTIONS that didn't alienate their user base and the brigadiers were a bit more accommodating and released that adding an option, doesn't affect them! 


Oh, the irony...

Complaining that there's not enough "options" but optimising the game for controllers too is a no no? :classic_biggrin:

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Hi, I am bn880, I am sorry for being an apologist.  But really I am just trying to make this game a better product and the world a slightly better place.  🖖🖖

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Posted (edited)

the feeling is there will be 1 further ffb update but as it will be in the future who knows when ?.fingers crossed i await with anticipation.again this is just a feeling that codies will try at least after all the feedback given to pj recently.thanks again to pj for listening

Edited by chrisjaf

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24 minutes ago, ianism said:

"It's worth mentioning that while this is the first big update to the FFB, it's definitely a work in progress and we plan to refine the feeling further. Please - let us know what you think."

we plan to refine it further. a plan is different from a promise. 

plan, noun. intention or decision about what one is going to do.
promise, noun. a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.
 
anyways, there'll probably be another FFB update. it'll come when it's ready. more communication would be nice, but frankly they've probably not done anything yet.

In the context of that sentence 'plan' is a verb (we intend to plan) and not a noun ;)

But either way, if there is going to be a second (planned) FFB update then that part of the op's argument is a bit of a non-issue

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Posted (edited)

Yes... "if"

Interesting thing is, that they obviously had started some work (see Christina's "it's definitely a work in progress), but PJTierney acts like devs have no knowledge about what is needed to be improved. All in all, it's not convincing.

Edited by MaXyMsrpl
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4 hours ago, SoftlySoftly said:

However, there is an additional layer of issue. The apologists! They sit in these threads, attack anyone with a critical opinion, turn the thread from a constructive discussion, into toxic waste! 

 

Im not sure who is more responsible, codemasters for making these decisions and implementing them, or the apologists in here who are driving, supporting and assisting codemasters in making these changes, by burying any content based constructive critism from other users.

i don't think you know what Constructive Criticism means.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/CONSTRUCTIVE+CRITICISM

"Constructive criticism

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is often a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards. Because of the overuse of negative, nagging criticism, some people become defensive even when receiving constructive criticism given in a spirit of good will. Constructive criticism is more likely to be accepted if the criticism is focused on the recipient's work or behavior. That is, personality issues must be avoided as much as is possible. Critical thinking can help identify relevant issues to focus on. Especially sensitive individuals may adopt a passive, defeated attitude if they view a situation as personal, pervasive, or permanent. Others may adopt an aggressive response. In an online forum lacking face-to-face contact, constructive criticism can be easily misinterpreted and online exchanges often spiral out of control, becoming flamewars. Effective interpersonal communication skills can be helpful to assess the recipient's frame of mind. During initial exchanges or when encountering defensive individuals, effective criticism calls for softer language and inclusion of positive comments. When the recipient strongly identifies with contentious areas, non-offensive criticism becomes challenging."

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/careers/soft-skills/constructive-feedback/

"Making Feedback Constructive

It is important to be able to differentiate between constructive feedback and destructive feedback. Destructive feedback points at faults and is a direct attack on the individual. In destructive feedback, no practical advice or supportive feedback is given.

Examples of destructive feedback include:

“You’re wrong.”

“That is not how you do things around here.”

“You have no idea what you are doing.”

 

So, as you can see, your post is not constructive criticism.

 

As for your prediction of being attacked, that has more to do with the manner of your post, not the content of it.

 

https://www.dummies.com/business/human-resources/employee-relations/giving-constructive-feedback/

"Manner

Manner is how you say the constructive feedback. As you may know, how you say something often carries more weight than what you have to say — manner is an important element when giving feedback."

 

If you want people yto take you seriously I would read the quotes I posted very carefully, take the advice onboard and come back with your real account and actually use constructive feedback/criticism instead of posting while angry and then insulting anyone who disagrees with you (why am I getting a strong sense of Deja Vu?)

 

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Posted (edited)

Wow, seriously dude, go outside and have some cubic metres of fresh oxygen. Instead of wasting all that energy to find as many synonyms for 'fanboy' as possible you could've helped to improve the game a lot more by giving constructive feedback. 

I basically do only half agree with one single point you brought up (yes, it's a shame that there's no dashcam). The game's awesome, Codies have been updating and improving it constantly. This is fact, so saying that Codies are laughing at their customers while they've actually worked their %&%$§ off to fix a lot of bugs, is rubbish to say the least. 

I've said this before, anyone who decided not to play this game for whatever reason is missing out on a lot of awesome things. 

You can call me a defender now, I don't care. I love Defenders! 

 

iu-2.jpeg

Edited by richie
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7 hours ago, SoftlySoftly said:

6 - No way to reset or start a second/new career alienating all customers after completion of games career!

This one is being looked into I believe. Anything involving save games and progress is very delicate however, which is why it takes time.

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3 hours ago, MaXyMsrpl said:

Yes... "if"

Interesting thing is, that they obviously had started some work (see Christina's "it's definitely a work in progress), but PJTierney acts like devs have no knowledge about what is needed to be improved. All in all, it's not convincing.

One of us was at Codemasters for the game’s entire development and launch, the other joined 2 months ago after 1.4 was released.

The staff don’t have “no knowledge” of what could be improved, but with development time much lower and precious than it was pre-launch (GRID’s a few months away and some are working on future titles beyond that) the team wanted to make sure that if any further FFB changes were to be made, that they be ones that the majority of people are after. That’s why I raised the topic again, to find out what the hot topics are now. 🙂 

 

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5 hours ago, chrisjaf said:

the feeling is there will be 1 further ffb update but as it will be in the future who knows when ?.fingers crossed i await with anticipation.again this is just a feeling that codies will try at least after all the feedback given to pj recently.thanks again to pj for listening

I haven’t explicitly promised another FFB update (I don’t like to promise things I don’t 100% know will happen) but I do know that FFB isn’t “perfect” for everyone, and have tried to find the big things the team could potentially look into. That feedback has been passed on, so let’s see what happens 🙂 

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Posted (edited)

i did say "feeling" not "promise" pj,i would not put words in your mouth.thanks again for all the hard work pj for keeping us informed

Edited by chrisjaf
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Posted (edited)

I will agree that dashcam should be re-instated.

I don't use a wheel but just a gamepad, so the cockpit view is ok for me personally.

But for many players who use wheels, dashcam was perfect. Now they are forced into an un-immersive view within the car, with a redundant section of cockpit/dash looming in the view.

At least allow the cockpit zoom to go much further for these people!

 

Edited by Jake Cushing

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

I will agree that dashcam should be re-instated.

I don't use a wheel but just a gamepad, so the cockpit view is ok for me personally.

But for many players who use wheels, dashcam was perfect. Now they are forced into an un-immersive view within the car, with a redundant section of cockpit/dash looming in the view.

At least allow the cockpit zoom to go much further for these people!

 

Camera preferences are more down to screen size, resolution and how far away the player is than anything else. 

I use a 55" 4k HDR TV with my PS4 Pro, sitting a meter away in a Playseat Challenge, and I only do cockpit in racing games. The resolution, size and distance allow it to be immersive without having 1/3 of the screen covered with things you don't focus on in real life "complicate things". I also feel the car better having the camera further back. 

However, in my PS3 days on a 37" Full HD TV cockpit was just not viable. I was a hood cam guy back then because my setup was just too small and far away to make cockpit effective/realistic. 

That is why I sympathize with those who mourn the loss of the DR1 dash cam. It was an excellent tradeoff for players with a small screen who still wanted that immersion factor. 

Edited by Pfei
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

I will agree that dashcam should be re-instated.

I don't use a wheel but just a gamepad, so the cockpit view is ok for me personally.

But for many players who use wheels, dashcam was perfect. Now they are forced into an un-immersive view within the car, with a redundant section of cockpit/dash looming in the view.

At least allow the cockpit zoom to go much further for these people!

 

In some cars like the Lancia Fulvia, Group B Porsche or the Opel Ascona, you can move the seat forward quite a bit, you basically get dashcam. In other cars you can't like the Impreza S14, Peugeot R5, and Fiesta R2/R5 e.g. Still ok(ish) though, but dashcam would've been really nice. 

Edited by richie

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It's a shame really. Dirt Rally 1 was probably the best run Early Access game I've ever seen.
And then there's this ******** of a game, that started with entirely unnecessary always-online DRM, and ended with scamming a good part of the playerbase that bought the game for the future VR support, and are unfortunate enough to be Oculus users.

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manner this, manner that, ... blablabla. As if we all were in kindergarden!

The OP is totally right!!!! Who cares about the manner he used???

Codemasters just can't do it anymore. Outsourcing has destroyed their quality and image. With very very bad decision making on top of that.
I will never buy a CM game again. I just can't support this. Paul felt the same and left. Together with half of the initial team who we just don't know.
Grid?? LMAO. Yeah whatever CM.

Oh, @SoftlySoftly: you can add "removed analog handbrake" to the list!

 

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On 8/9/2019 at 12:49 PM, _BorisTheFrog_ said:

In the context of that sentence 'plan' is a verb (we intend to plan) and not a noun 😉

But either way, if there is going to be a second (planned) FFB update then that part of the op's argument is a bit of a non-issue

sorry, but no. the verb is intend. the infinitive "to plan" is the direct object. direct objects function as nouns. look it up if you don't believe me.

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